Biking etiquette ?

Cal

Being a recent noob to the world of motor biking, I was wondering if there is an unwritten etiquette as to how to ride on our roads.

Things like approaching a line of traffic at the lights should you go up the inside, outside or middle? Or do you just go where you fit? It seems that motorists seem unfazed once you get away quickly enough.

Some other bikers seem to have a friendly nod when passing. But others seem to look through you, mainly couriers I think (or are they a different breed altogether)?

Parking was another question I had but I see it has its own thread already.

Cal.

spockety

Coming up to lights, go wherever is the safest , be it inside, outside, or through the middle. IT'll be different at every set of lights.. some may have a bus lane beside them and an advanced stop line for cycles , etc. Basic ettiquette is to not scratch or hit any cars and piss them off!

You'll rarely if ever get a nod in the city, cos people are on their bikes to courier, or commute. You'll really only get the nod on weekends when people are on bikes for pleasure.

J.

Phryxus

I find the friendly nod between bikers is more common with older riders, as far as etiquette goes the only thing I'd never do is pull in front of a bike at or before lights that'd smoke me as soon as the light changes, I suppose that's more common sense than anything else though.

CJhaughey

I usually salute other bikers when I see 'em but I live in the country and other bikers are probably just cruising around enjoying 'emselves too.
A word of warning, be very careful lanesplitting at speed a lot of motorists will just switch lanes without warning and wipe you out.

seamus

Phryxus wrote:

as far as etiquette goes the only thing I'd never do is pull in front of a bike at or before lights that'd smoke me as soon as the light changes, I suppose that's more common sense than anything else though.

Yep. Try to avoid pulling in front of other bikes at all at the lights, and if you find yourself stopped behind a bike that's a little faster than you, don't overtake him just because you reacted quicker, wait for him to go.

A word of warning, be very careful lanesplitting at speed a lot of motorists will just switch lanes without warning and wipe you out.

Absolutely. I can't count the number of times i've been doing 100km/h+ on the motorway, and some moron has come flying through between the lanes at 120+. One minor mistake and you're finished.

In stopped traffic, if you can avoid overtaking on the left do, i.e. if you have the choice of left or right overtaking, always go for right.
I always make a point of aborting a left-hand overtake in traffic once the traffic starts to move.

Chalk

common etiquette id use is the right of way for two bikes aiming at each other head on down the "middle lane" , ie both overtaking on the right when theres room for only one bike,
both of yis need to get through so judge whos bike is bigger and then if your on the little 'un pull in to the left when you have a chance, big bike will scream past with a nod and youll both be on your way with little affect to your journey time

also when going down the middle watch out for cars trying to be motorbikes,
ie theyre pulling out to the right every few minutes to see if they can squeeze by.
they never can :rolleyes: but theyll keep trying, they wont see you coming from behind and it will seem like their trying to run you into the other lane, theyll also get caught out every now and then and block off your lane.
once they see you they wont pull back in, so rev and nudge at their rear wing till they finally relent
dont hit them obviously but make it seem like your not going to give up until you get past.

Cal

Thanks guys for the nice pointers so far.

It's nice to see that I'm not being a pushy pup on the roads as I start to see the road from a different point of view again. (Mind you the years I spent on a pushbike many moons ago have helped me be a defensive rider from the start) I'd feel sorry for someone having to gain their first two wheeled experience in Dublin on a motorised vehicle.

Cal

causal

Always a good idea to get some proper training

Wear as much protective gear as possible it'll help save your own skin in the event of a spill. Boots, trousers, jacket, gloves, decent helmet. Leather offers the best protection.

Make yourself visible - keep your headlights (dipped beam) on at all times - wear a hi-viz jacket/vest.

Make yourself audible - many road users don't look - (sorry mate I didn't see you :rolleyes: ) - but they do hear - "loud pipes save lives" - imho it's true.

I only nod if it doesn't distract me from what I'm supposed to be doing. In heavy traffic my eyes are too busy elsewhere - that kerb, that car, that door, that kid, etc.

Always assume 'it will happen' i.e. they will turn without inidicating, they will open the door, they will step out in front of you, they will change lane suddenly etc.

In my experience 99% of drivers are fine, you'll get the odd eejit, but then you'll get the odd gem - like the driver who retracted his mirrors so I could pass :cool:

Enjoy it, take your time, you don't have to go fast, you will still pass all the cars at the next traffic lights / queue

So what bike do you have?

causal

Cal

causal wrote:

Enjoy it, take your time, you don't have to go fast, you will still pass all the cars at the next traffic lights / queue

Probably the second best thing about biking. The 1st being the freedom of the open road. (weather permitting )

causal wrote:

So what bike do you have?

A shiny new Dragstar 650 Classic

Cal

madrab

Cal wrote:

A shiny new Dragstar 650 Classic

nice and spanky

i try and nod to most bikers (accept couriers as they rarely acknowledge you doing it)

Beruthiel

Cal wrote:

Things like approaching a line of traffic at the lights should you go up the inside, outside or middle?.

unless there is a bus lane, I do not recommend that you approach the lights form the inside, I have had a muppet get out of the passenger side of a car while at a red light, knocked me off the bike, fractured me toe and a nice little dent on the tank - always remember, they never look!

/I'll have nothing said against couriers, they have help me out more than once when I've had a problem!

echomadman

Beware of "white van man" aswell, i've had them deliberately block me from overtaking so many times, also boy racers will sometimes come right up your ass and try to pass you.
Also on the loud cans thing, it really does work, my bandit was loud in a shrieking kind of way, and more people got out of my way than my mates quieter bikes, the SV is insanely loud, and seems to bully people out of the way even more.

Stix

causal wrote:

Leather offers the best protection.

I disagree - textiles these days can be better. Considering they use kevlar and other strong substances in the clothing. In fact, it's better as far as weather goes, cos when it rains leather hols the water, and when it's sunny, leather will sweat you. Then again, more of an opinion than anything else.

As for couriers - i think if they nodded at every biker that passed them during their days work, their head would fall off. Also, a lot of couriers aren't real bikers, just idiots that get a scooter so they can get a job. Havin said that, i know a lot of couriers who are genuine bikers. You might also notice the friendly nod from Garda bikers. It runs right throught the biking world - a car driver wouldn't get the same from a Garda in a car.

echomadman

On the topic of gear, anyone ever bought a pair of Draggin Jeans and have anythign to say about them good or bad?
http://www.dragginjeans.com.au/index2.htm
I hate riding without proper gear, but my agv overpants are way too hot in the summer, i also dont really fancy leathers, for various reasons. These seem ideal, as you can hop off the bike and viola you're wearing normal clothes, you dont have to lug around bulky armoured pants, and you're not shoehorned into a pair of leather pants.
Ok the impact protection is the same as regular jeans, but from the videos on the site of a guy being towed by a dragster and not getting severe road rash they'll definitely save your skin in a spill.

Garibaldi

Hmm...textiles rip surprisingly easily when they hit the tarmac (veteran of three crashes here). In my experience, it's the body armour inside the clothing that saves you the most. God knows, without it I'd have two plastic kneecaps, all manner of soft tissue damage (I've had a fair bit of that, but nothing too dramatic) and arms/legs broken a few times. I've done a few tours around Europe, and never suffered from any sweat problems (not from the leather anyway), despite temps well up in the mid 30s. Getting leathers with vents in all the right places is important alright.
Ride around as though anyone could snap and try to kill you at any moment and you should be alright.......or prescribed Valium after a few weeks.

528i

Being a recent noob to the world of motor biking, I was wondering if there is an unwritten etiquette as to how to ride on our roads.

Resist the temptation to flirt with other bikers, normal riders will ignore these advances anyway.

Try not to become a nuisance to other road users with tacky termigoni aftermarket noise amplifiers, and just remember that car's are much bigger and therefore have the right-of-way in most instances, irregardless of your mutterings behind that fogged up visor.

Cal

528i wrote:

Resist the temptation to flirt with other bikers, normal riders will ignore these advances anyway.

Try not to become a nuisance to other road users with tacky termigoni aftermarket noise amplifiers, and just remember that car's are much bigger and therefore have the right-of-way in most instances, irregardless of your mutterings behind that fogged up visor.

As helpful as ever :rolleyes: And safer to society when contained in your Bavarian made cage

omb0wyn5ehpij9

528i wrote:

Resist the temptation to flirt with other bikers, normal riders will ignore these advances anyway.

Try not to become a nuisance to other road users with tacky termigoni aftermarket noise amplifiers, and just remember that car's are much bigger and therefore have the right-of-way in most instances, irregardless of your mutterings behind that fogged up visor.

You sir, are an idiot

Krusty_Clown

echomadman wrote:

On the topic of gear, anyone ever bought a pair of Draggin Jeans and have anythign to say about them good or bad?

I had a pair of dragging jeans a couple of years ago... Come to think of it, I still have them.. They offer absolutely no impact protection, only protection from road rash.. So I reckon they're ok for a spin down to the shop, but for longer jaunts, you really need to have the right gear on..

Also, they deteriorate at the same rate as any other pair of jeans (though the kevlar might keep them together for a little bit longer), so at the price, I'm not sure how good value for money they represent. Needless to say, no weather protection.. So the general wear and tare of bike riding will see them getting shabby fairly quickly..

All this apart, they are as confortable as any pair of jeans or combats, and if you're just going for a short spin, they definitely offer more protection than a pair of jeans.

Can 528i be moved to the 'personal issues' forum, as he obviously has some personal issues.

Beruthiel

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Can 528i be moved to the 'personal issues' forum, as he obviously has some personal issues.

no
he bloodywell cannot!

Stix

Beruthiel wrote:

no
he bloodywell cannot!

Please move 528i and Beruthiel as obviously thay hate bikers - no hate here - only valid arguments, thank you.

As for jeans - i use a pair of Snickers work trousers (grey) for short trips to the shops. They have a kevlar composite, so will save your skin. Not great for imapact io should imagine, mind you, you can get kneww pads for them !

spockety

I was in Capital Honda in Terenure last week, and on the bargain rail they have a pair of denim jeans for 50 Euro that have kevlar stitching, but also have hard armour in the hips and at the knees in case of a spill, yet they look like normal jeans..

Eye

got a 650 dragstar myself (not classic though) have it 4 years now and they are lovely bikes to drive, welcome to the world of biking btw

most of the advice you could ever need starting off has already been given so not much for me to say just to be safe and enjoy yourself

one thing that has'nt been mention though is for anyone who drives in urban or non urban areas, when it comes to trucks make damn sure you are visible to them in their mirrors, bikes are much smaller than cars so alot of the time they wont see you unless you position yourself properly on the road to get into view of their mirrors, having said that though personally i have found the vast majority or truck drivers to be the most curtious to bikers. if i come up behind a truck and stay visible in the mirror for a moment, then 95% of the time trucks will make a bit of room where they can safely do so and let you pass, a quick salute from me and flash of the lights from them and i'm on my way

Krusty_Clown

spockety wrote:

I was in Capital Honda in Terenure last week, and on the bargain rail they have a pair of denim jeans for 50 Euro that have kevlar stitching, but also have hard armour in the hips and at the knees in case of a spill, yet they look like normal jeans..

Sounds like a much better bet then the draggin jeans..

528i

Can we stick to the subject of 'Biking etiquette' rather than personal attire and underwear comparisons please, or is this a another of your limp wristed fashion contests Krusty ?

Krusty_Clown

Yawn. Was quite funny the first couple of times, now you're just dull.

528i

Apologies for being so dull, tell us all about your vibrant new spring/summer collection then.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

528i wrote:

Apologies for being so dull, tell us all about your vibrant new spring/summer collection then.

Ah the joy of allowing every little simpleton to use a computer :rolleyes:

delanest

Nice thread.

I agree dont stop ahead of other bikes at the lights. Basically the faster bike should be out front, you can generally tell. A lot of mopeds pull up the lights in front of the faster bikes which must wait for them to pull off when the lights change, very annoying.

Also when filtering through traffic, dont try and pass out other bikes, just stay behind the bike in fornt of you !

Bigger moped users, 125-250. The majority of the time these are bikers who are a little older and can afford a bigger bike but dont have the experience. You should be wearing the same safety gear, including boots as other bikers. I find these users the worst when it comes to "biking etiqette" because they have some power but little experience. Obviously not all of them of course.

spockety

BrynW wrote:

Ah the joy of allowing every little simpleton to use a computer :rolleyes:

It stretches far beyond using a computer, arse holes like this litter the roads we all share!

echomadman

Can someone prune 528i's posts from this thread, he's consistently fagged up every bike thread since he joined boards, once he starts it results in a calvalcade of insults and complaints about him, dragging the thread off topic and hiding the useful info in it.
He's a sad attention whore, and he keeps getting what he wants.

Stix

528i wrote:

Can we stick to the subject of 'Biking etiquette' rather than personal attire and underwear comparisons please, or is this a another of your limp wristed fashion contests Krusty ?

Funny thing is - this moron probably doesnt even have a car, nevermind a 528i.

Stix

delanest wrote:

Nice thread.

I agree dont stop ahead of other bikes at the lights. Basically the faster bike should be out front, you can generally tell. A lot of mopeds pull up the lights in front of the faster bikes which must wait for them to pull off when the lights change, very annoying.

Also when filtering through traffic, dont try and pass out other bikes, just stay behind the bike in fornt of you !

Bigger moped users, 125-250. The majority of the time these are bikers who are a little older and can afford a bigger bike but dont have the experience. You should be wearing the same safety gear, including boots as other bikers. I find these users the worst when it comes to "biking etiqette" because they have some power but little experience. Obviously not all of them of course.

I agree - when you get to the front of the traffic, dont pull in front of other bikes that are already there. Just common courtesey.

If ur on a bigger bike, no need to pull up in front of other bikes just cos their smaller. However, if the smaller bike in front has any decency, he well keep to the left so as 2 let u pass once the lights go green.

I have pulled in front of other bikes on occasion, but only where it was neccesary to allow oncoming traffic pass, or similar situations.

spockety

Sorry, I have to say I don't agree with being too concerned with not pulling in on front of other bikes when stopped at lights. First concern should be to put yourself in a position where you're not a danger to yourself, oncoming, or turning traffic, and in a position where you know you are guaranteed to get away unimpeded. Obviously you should not *block* other bikes, but pulling ahead of a bike that himself is in a bit of a stupid position is fair game I reckon. If where you end up happens to appear courteous to another biker, then fair enough. There are a lot of bikers piss me off, as when you filter through the centre of two lanes of traffic, there is some pleb level with the two cars at the top and just sitting there leaving you sandwiched. I gave up stop light courtesy years ago!

Chalk

traffic lights are always hard to judge,
inexperienced bikers can get to the front of traffic with a bit of luck, empty oncoming lane, wide gap etc.

even when theyre on a big cbr600, i see this regularly, they sit there in an awkward position, afraid to cross over the line,
watching our own lights to go green not the other ones to go red, then they roll forward about 2-3 secs after a bike should be well gone,
cars are strating to move and any bikers behind him are getting the evil eye from the cars.

in an ideal world all bike should be lined up side to side at the head of traffic , easy enough to do tbh, and i drive a crusier, then they can all pull away at there own pace.

delanest

just when you mention the white line at lights

Do you stop at the white line ?

Persionally I dont, even if I'm the first there, but never crossing the pedesterian line.

causal

fwiw Technically you're breaking the lights if you cross the white line.

But yeah, if there's cars already up at the white line I go past it - but as you say - not onto the pedestrian crossing - I'm very concious of this, fair is fair etc.

causal

Cal

Wow I thought I would be given a couple of do's and dont's bur this thread has really taken off.

A point I discovered when trying the 'quickly up the bus lane and slip in front of that big truck at the front' trick, is that, if the lights change early and you are not going to make it, be careful of the gravel that seems to gather just before the traffic island at the lights. I luckily could take the left turn so as to not look like a tit coming to a sliding stop at the lights.

Also is it just my bike being that it slows quite a lot coming down the gears but I find I use the rear brakes very rarely? I know most stopping power is in the front brakes but should I be using the rear brakes too more often.

And which foot do you put down at the lights? It seems (from my observations) that most people put down their right foot. Any opinions on this?

Cal

Victor

Beruthiel wrote:

unless there is a bus lane, I do not recommend that you approach the lights form the inside, I have had a muppet ....

Whoa! You were overtaking on the wrong side ....

causal

Cal wrote:

Also is it just my bike being that it slows quite a lot coming down the gears but I find I use the rear brakes very rarely? I know most stopping power is in the front brakes but should I be using the rear brakes too more often.

And which foot do you put down at the lights? It seems (from my observations) that most people put down their right foot. Any opinions on this?

Cal

Cal it's a good point you make about the gravel - this is something you get almost on every road - where all the dirt and debris is pushed to the sides by carwheels etc.

V-twins do slow a lot more coming down the gears (aka compression braking, engine braking). Make sure you're not clunking down too much or you're back wheel will lock up - particularly in the wet or on gravel.

As for which foot to put down - there is a procedure known as 'The Hendon Shuffle' which is the Police Riders (Hendon is their training school) preferred method of putting it into to neutral and applying the rear brake all the while maintaining proper control of the bike. It's the equivalent procedure of stopping a car selecting neutral and applying the handbrake.

Hendon Shuffle:
Stop the bike (typically using both brakes)
- left foot down (your right foot is still on the brake pedal)
- keeping front brake applied then put right foot down
- flick gear into neutral then put left foot down
- put right foot on brake
- then you do it all in reverse when taking off.

It is a bit involved and many people don't bother - particularly if you're only going to be stopped for a little bit.

hth,
causal

Pataman

While your here lad and lassies, have any of you been pulled or ticked off by the Gardai for using the bus lane.

Krusty_Clown

Never. I've had a few waves from Gardai as I travel down the bus-lane but have never been stopped.. Some bikers have though. I think the Lucan to Dublin road is quite popular for this..

LegacyUser

Ive never been stopped using the bus lane on the N4. The traffic cops are actually pretty sound on that strech of road. I'll always remember during the Winter when it was lashing rain and the traffic was chaos, a Garda biker led us all through the pissings of rain into safety.

It was great cuz all the cars moved out of the way for the Garda, allowing the 5 or so of the rest of us through also!!

causal

I've never been pulled by the fuzz for being in a bus lane - and on a couple of occasions in the bus lane I was overtaken by Gardai on bikes.

tbh the Gardai are mostly sound about it - they know you're a lot safer in the bus lane; but if you're acting the eejit (going too fast, whizzing close to cyclists etc.) then expect to be stopped.

Also if they have a checkpoint setup and you happen to be passing you'll likely be stopped - but it's usually for a ticking off.

causal

delanest

And which foot do you put down at the lights? It seems (from my observations) that most people put down their right foot. Any opinions on this?

When you stop first, its left foot down with right foot on the back break. If you are staying clutched you remain in this position.

If you put the bike in neutral you apply the front break, then release the back break and put your right foot down. You then put the bike into neutral leaving your left leg up.

While your here lad and lassies, have any of you been pulled or ticked off by the Gardai for using the bus lane.

I agree, makes sence to drive in the bus lane, fair play to the Garda bikers for turning a blind eye.

Beruthiel

Pataman wrote:

While your here lad and lassies, have any of you been pulled or ticked off by the Gardai for using the bus lane.

"do you know why I stopped you?"
yes
I've been stopped, but let away with it...