Euro Vs USA Vs ASIA

prospect

Allright guys 'n' gals:

Is your preferred motor, (car/bike/truck), European, Asian, or USA?

No I know renault own a heap of Nissan, but for the purposes of this poll
Renault = European
Nissan = Asian

Also this is not a geographical debate..

I vote european, mostly because of the styling is by far the best, (esp Alfa tee hee hee)
But, i do prefer the way the Asian cars have the fuel fillers on the left, it is handier to get out of the car at the pumps..... (i'm not getting any younger you know!!!)

DukeDredd

Asian all the way - Japanese to be exact. Really showed their European counterparts how to make cars properly!

mike65

European all the way, sure the Italians cars will drive you nuts but hey they're like a woman (cliche #94). European cars win on at least two grounds - design and desirability.

Mike.

prospect

Europeans got out of the blocks quickly, but the Asians fought back into the first bend.
As it stands, the Europeans maintain a commanding lead.
The americans are still at home in bed, did anyone tell them the race has started...

CJhaughey

Hehe , the Americans lying in bed have a bad case of Obesity and Binge drinking problems.

madrab

japan all the way, im a honda man for reliability, affordability and power

(though i do like some EU & US bikes)

Ratchet

considering all the points , would pic jap car

AMurphy

prospect wrote:

Europeans got out of the blocks quickly, but the Asians fought back into the first bend.
As it stands, the Europeans maintain a commanding lead.
The americans are still at home in bed, did anyone tell them the race has started...

[Europeans got out of the blocks quickly] only to discover the gear lever broke and now screaming about 30 still in 1st, excellent acceleration there.... but far short on top speed.

[As it stands, the Europeans maintain a commanding lead], all be it on the tow-hook of an Isuzu emergency truck.

[The americans are still at home in bed, did anyone tell them the race has started], no. but on interrogating some suspects we learned anyway....
by current reckoning, the cruise missile should be at the finishing line, just in time to greet the winners.

AMurphy

madrab wrote:

japan all the way, im a honda man for reliability, affordability and power

......

I'll agree with the reliability and power, but the other is certainly not applicable about here. Maybe in the Mid-West.

Dagon

I'm a Toyota and Honda fanatic. Vote Japan!!! Total reliability, style, and power. They are worlds ahead of the rest of the.. erm, world!

You have to vote for anyone who made this machine:

prospect

Well guys 'n' gals,

The europeans are holding on tight to a convincing lead. Having not lost the premier spot in the race, they are really stamping their authority on this one. Is it possible that a european, stuck in first gear, is this good? Maybe the best has yet to come?

But the Asians have collected some momentum, and have surged closer. Maybe this is down to the fact that cheap plastic is lighter than fine leather and suede!

USA, well they tried. (or maybe they were sympathy votes?) But personally i would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, they got out of the blocks, after freeing up their shoelaces that the Asians had tied together. But approaching the first corner some bugger in the crowd mentioned WOMD and now they have fled to the nearest airport to strip search and fingerprint every poor bugger within a 10 mile radius.

Balfa

Pretty weird poll. There are a lot of grey areas. Are european chevrolets american, because the brand name is chevrolet, european, because they're sold only in the european market, or asian, because they're all just rebranded daewoos? I'd say asian, but it's just an example of the sort of greyness that dominates this sort of discussion. Mitsubishi eclipse is built and sold only in north america, but i'd still call it japanese.

Anyway, no surprise to find europe in the lead on a european board. Although I'd like to think that we are more sensible when it comes to not being biased, etc. I know that if you asked this question in america, america would certainly be in the lead, and similarly for asia... it makes you wonder.

It's especially no surprise to find that america's in last place here, especially considering all Fords sold here are actually european, Chrysler has virtually zero market share (does even have any officialy presence in Ireland?) and Chevrolet is too new a brand to be given any consideration.


Anyway, personally, I like european cars because they seem more innovative style-wise (although this can backfire. Megane's bum.) and the likes of fiat and citroen seem to be pioneering in accessories, such as automatic wipers and so on.

I like american cars and i don't exactly know why... I know they have a reputation of being the least reliable cars around, but they're more powerful (all else being equal), and they're sometimes pretty stylish, and they seem to have character. I still intend to get a 5.7 litre Pontiac Trans-Am when I get some money together. Just cos it's so different to what I've known throughout my upbringing, and it looks fantastic, and stuff....

But I chose asian for practical reasons. There's no doubt they're the most reliable, even the budget brands like Hyundai.

Balfa

I also like european brands for the way they shape the market. I like the idea of one model name with lots of different body styles, etc.

Japanese marques seem to stick to a limited number of models and very limited body styles. Counting basic cars, Honda in America markets just Accord and Civic, and they come only in two and four door bodies. Even the Jazz in europe is only a new addition to the lineup.

American manufacturers offer a bewlidering array of different cars, many of which seem to overlap and compete with each other (Chevrolet Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo). When you consider that each of the Big Three compete rebranded models of each platform against each other (Ford Taurus, Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Sable and Mercury Montego all compete with each other), it gets even weirder.

Anyway, that's all.

OfflerCrocGod

prospect wrote:

The americans are still at home in bed, did anyone tell them the race has started...

ROFL - you need to be clinically insane to choose an American car Euro is my choice Thank You very much I like stylish things.

Delta_ie

Balfa wrote:

I also like european brands for the way they shape the market. I like the idea of one model name with lots of different body styles, etc.

Japanese marques seem to stick to a limited number of models and very limited body styles. Counting basic cars, Honda in America markets just Accord and Civic, and they come only in two and four door bodies. Even the Jazz in europe is only a new addition to the lineup.

American manufacturers offer a bewlidering array of different cars, many of which seem to overlap and compete with each other (Chevrolet Impala, Malibu, Monte Carlo). When you consider that each of the Big Three compete rebranded models of each platform against each other (Ford Taurus, Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Sable and Mercury Montego all compete with each other), it gets even weirder.

Anyway, that's all.

We actually get a very limit taste of what Japan has to offer and generaly they only sell their lower priced cars here or if they sell their mid to high end stuff it is under a different name such as Lexus.

ciarsd

European all the way. I've not owned a car from anywhere but europe in all the cars I've owned.

I dont doubt the might and reliability of a Jap car, but IMO they are all plastic and pretty much the same. I detest their interiors and that is a big big factor for me.

Yank mobile? Don't get me started!

Chalk

asian.

R1 , CBR, GSXR.

bazz26

I always drove Japanese cars but bought a European car once for a change. Worst car I ever owned and it was a disaster from day one. I know not every car is the same but it still left me doubting certain European makes and I will stick to the Japs for the a while yet.

bp_me

Jap all the way(preferably a toyota)

Balfa

ciarsd wrote:

Yank mobile? Don't get me started!

Any particular reason why you don't like them despite having probably never driven one?

Now remember, I chose asian rather than european or american, but I'm willing to defend american cars against ignorant european views if need be, just cos i'm sure there's no one else here who will

As far as quality goes, they're not all that bad. JD Power says 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the US are american, and 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the UK are european. That's not a bad start. But perhaps a better idea is to look at how cars compare to the similar-in-all-markets and reliably renowned cars such as Civics and Accords and Corollas.

In the US, the Accord is 50th, so there are obviously 25 american cars above it. Civic is 32nd, and there are 18 american cars above it. Corolla is 26th and there are 14 american cars better than it, for an average of 19 (mostly GM) american-made cars more reliable than those three quality japanese cars.

In the UK, Accord is 11th, and there are 4 european cars above it, Civic is 13th with 5 above it, and corolla is right behind it in 14th, so there are 5 above it, too. This means there are an average of just 4.7 european cars better than those three. I know this is far from an ideal study, but it's one of the best available given the range of cars available in each market.

Performance-wise, the best comparison I can make is a Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (310HP, $23k) against a VW Jetta VR6 (210HP, $27k). The Camaro is RWD and is considered to handle quite well. A BMW M3 weighs almost exactly the same as a Camaro, outputs 333HP (at much higher revs), is also RWD, probably handles better than the Camaro, but also costs twice as much, so you can't really compare them.

What exactly is it that people dislike about american cars, besides the fact that lots of them are SUVs or trucks or whatever?

elivsvonchiaing

Only reason to choose American car - in Southern states in Summer - have to admit no-one else seems to invest as much in quick fuel-inefficient coolness...

When in States will rent American!

Elsewhere... japanese car! Own toyota! (* admits being boring *)

ciarsd

Balfa wrote:

Any particular reason why you don't like them despite having probably never driven one?

Don't make assumptions Balfa, I would never bother to comment unless I had first hand experience.

Balfa wrote:

Now remember, I chose asian rather than european or american, but I'm willing to defend american cars against ignorant european views if need be, just cos i'm sure there's no one else here who will

My view is not an ignorant view, as you put it. If anything your reply is ignorant!

I've been lucky enough to spend quite a bit of time in the states through holidays and more so through my job. I've driven various models/marque's, big, small, 2door, SUV etc - I'd recon I've driven approx 15-20K Miles in the states in American cars.

Balfa wrote:

As far as quality goes, they're not all that bad. JD Power says 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the US are american, and 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the UK are european. That's not a bad start. But perhaps a better idea is to look at how cars compare to the similar-in-all-markets and reliably renowned cars such as Civics and Accords and Corollas.

Quality may not be bad - for a hard wearing interior - god they are so dull, plasticy and pretty plain in comparison to some similar Euro cars in a similar range.

Balfa wrote:

In the US, the Accord is 50th, so there are obviously 25 american cars above it. Civic is 32nd, and there are 18 american cars above it. Corolla is 26th and there are 14 american cars better than it, for an average of 19 (mostly GM) american-made cars more reliable than those three quality japanese cars.

In the UK, Accord is 11th, and there are 4 european cars above it, Civic is 13th with 5 above it, and corolla is right behind it in 14th, so there are 5 above it, too. This means there are an average of just 4.7 european cars better than those three. I know this is far from an ideal study, but it's one of the best available given the range of cars available in each market.

Performance-wise, the best comparison I can make is a Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (310HP, $23k) against a VW Jetta VR6 (210HP, $27k). The Camaro is RWD and is considered to handle quite well. A BMW M3 weighs almost exactly the same as a Camaro, outputs 333HP (at much higher revs), is also RWD, probably handles better than the Camaro, but also costs twice as much, so you can't really compare them.

What exactly is it that people dislike about american cars, besides the fact that lots of them are SUVs or trucks or whatever?

My main gripe is handling, or lack of. Most of them look the same (if comparing from similar ranges). They are soft going around corners. The lack of extras inside, the lack of thought given to some equipment - I could go on but this thread is not about that.

You can make all the comparisons you want regarding power figures and the like, that may convince some people, but there is no way in hell I would buy a Camaro over a Bora/Golf VR6 (Jetta in States) and dont even try comparing to the likes of an M3 - the E30 Evo, E36 & E46 M3's are in a league of their own.

I'll complete my reply with this "Some American 'Sportcars' may have the power advantage, but thats useless unless your always going to always drive in a straight line"

Ratchet

Balfa wrote:

Any particular reason why you don't like them despite having probably never driven one?

Now remember, I chose asian rather than european or american, but I'm willing to defend american cars against ignorant european views if need be, just cos i'm sure there's no one else here who will

As far as quality goes, they're not all that bad. JD Power says 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the US are american, and 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the UK are european. That's not a bad start. But perhaps a better idea is to look at how cars compare to the similar-in-all-markets and reliably renowned cars such as Civics and Accords and Corollas.

In the US, the Accord is 50th, so there are obviously 25 american cars above it. Civic is 32nd, and there are 18 american cars above it. Corolla is 26th and there are 14 american cars better than it, for an average of 19 (mostly GM) american-made cars more reliable than those three quality japanese cars.

......?

not sure about that, i think in terms of reliabilty on US market , Toyota(incl Lexus) and Honda (incl Acura brand ) beats the sucks out of the compettition . If remeber correctly first 3 most reliable cars in US were Jap cars followed by some fords which were still ahead of german BMW and Merc

DukeDredd

I think the European side of things was always going to top this poll as this board is dominated by BMW lovers - do a search and see the amount of threads dedicated to them.

camarobill

asian women japines food :rolleyes: europen culture and pre 1970 big cubic inch v8s ggggrrrrrrr

Ernie Ball

ciarsd wrote:

My main gripe is handling, or lack of. Most of them look the same (if comparing from similar ranges). They are soft going around corners.

Must say I agree and I lived over 15 years in the US. Almost all cars sold in the american market are extremely mushy in their handing/ride. However, this includes the Japanese cars. Toyotas and Hondas are just as flabby-driving in the US as are Chryslers. Other than VWs, European cars are only luxury models like Mercs and BMWs and Volvos and Saabs. There are no Fiats or Peugeots or Renaults or Opels or Citroens or Seats. Only the VWs over there seem to be at all like the cars over here: tighter and more responsive.

Balfa

ciarsd wrote:

Don't make assumptions Balfa, I would never bother to comment unless I had first hand experience.

I'm sorry, but you have to admit there are many irish people who haven't driven an american car and still think lowly of them. And even though you have actually driven one, it's still a safe assumption to make that you probably hadn't driven one, like i said And so my use of the word ignorant isn't personal, but just directed towards the general irish attitude. no harm intended

Quality may not be bad - for a hard wearing interior - god they are so dull, plasticy and pretty plain in comparison to some similar Euro cars in a similar range.

Depends on what you go for. GM cars are very bland, but chrysler/dodge are quite nice in my opinion, and ford is getting much better recently.

My main gripe is handling, or lack of. Most of them look the same (if comparing from similar ranges). They are soft going around corners.

This is definitely true, but first of all, the only reason is that they use weaker dampers. I don't even think the springs are any softer. So it's not a fundamental design flaw, it's just a choice (at least that's going by what toyota and honda change from the european/japanese market to the american market). And it might even be a good choice. How much of the time do you actually spend at the limit grip? And even where you are at the limit, is there any reason you need to be there despite boyracerism? Whereas how often do you hit a pothole or uneven surface or crest or something? It's not really my personal preference, but there's a lot to be said for comfort over handling.

The lack of extras inside, the lack of thought given to some equipment - I could go on but this thread is not about that.

Actually this thread is about that, so please go on. And in my experience, there are more extra feautres in american cars, and there is thought given to equipment. I just had a spin in my cousin's Chevy Impala last night, and apart from the digital display with compass, gallons used, mpg, outside air temp, etc. there was also a radio that automatically got louder the faster you went so you could still hear it over engine/road/wind noise, and you can blow warm air on the driver and cold air on the passenger at the same time if you like. That's something my wife and I could really use And it's definitely good thought put into equipment.

I'll complete my reply with this "Some American 'Sportcars' may have the power advantage, but thats useless unless your always going to always drive in a straight line"

Since you've driven in America you'll know that you are always going in a straight line ;P

And remember, all i'm doing is offering an opposing viewpoint, not necessarily my own.

ciarsd

Balfa wrote:

I'm sorry, but you have to admit there are many irish people who haven't driven an american car and still think lowly of them. And even though you have actually driven one, it's still a safe assumption to make that you probably hadn't driven one, like i said And so my use of the word ignorant isn't personal, but just directed towards the general irish attitude. no harm intended

agreed

Balfa wrote:

Depends on what you go for. GM cars are very bland, but chrysler/dodge are quite nice in my opinion, and ford is getting much better recently.

This is definitely true, but first of all, the only reason is that they use weaker dampers. I don't even think the springs are any softer. So it's not a fundamental design flaw, it's just a choice (at least that's going by what toyota and honda change from the european/japanese market to the american market). And it might even be a good choice. How much of the time do you actually spend at the limit grip? And even where you are at the limit, is there any reason you need to be there despite boyracerism? Whereas how often do you hit a pothole or uneven surface or crest or something? It's not really my personal preference, but there's a lot to be said for comfort over handling.

I suppose we look for different things in a car, I've never gotten used to the handling or lack of in an American car, I'm used to European standards of ride height, comfort, handling I s'pose so again it's just down to a matter of opinion.
Again, I'm of the same opinion for the level of equipment and how it is installed and presented to you, the driver, in the drivers seat.

Balfa wrote:

Actually this thread is about that, so please go on. And in my experience, there are more extra feautres in american cars, and there is thought given to equipment. I just had a spin in my cousin's Chevy Impala last night, and apart from the digital display with compass, gallons used, mpg, outside air temp, etc. there was also a radio that automatically got louder the faster you went so you could still hear it over engine/road/wind noise, and you can blow warm air on the driver and cold air on the passenger at the same time if you like. That's something my wife and I could really use And it's definitely good thought put into equipment.

Everything you have mentioned above is in my '02 Alfa 147 minus the compass!
Bi-Zone climate control is the term for the separate air temps for passenger versus driver (v. handy indeed, i find)

Interesting conversaion/topic

Capt'n Midnight

Balfa wrote:

As far as quality goes, they're not all that bad. JD Power says 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the US are american, and 25 out of the top 50 most reliable cars sold in the UK are european. That's not a bad start. But perhaps a better idea is to look at how cars compare to the similar-in-all-markets and reliably renowned cars such as Civics and Accords and Corollas

All you've shown is what most of us know already - overpowered cars with larger engines are more reliable because they are less stressed. Over here things like 3.5L Pajero come out higher in reliability than the 1.0L cars that many drive because of fuel and tax costs.

Reminds me of comments about the B36 - with enough power you can get anything to fly - it had 6 piston engine AND four jet engines. But when a updated version went head to head with the B52 in trials, both using the same engines and very similar wings the B52 was 100mph faster.

netwhizkid

Oh yeah its european all the way for me not for their spped but their reliability, jap cars are for 7 stone japs basically, we irish can weigh up to 20stone plus they are just two small and pokey. and don't even get me started on hyundai, kia etc, basically recycled coke cans. Give me a quality German BMW anyday. i prefer american cars if it wasn't for their fondness of the petrol pumps, ie theri all guzzlers 10 to 20mpg is nearly standard over there, plus 9 out of 10 are nearly automatics/sissys cars, give me a 6 speed manual anyday.

Regards netwhizkid

Alfasudcrazy

I voted European as well. Ever since I was a passenger in a Datsun Sunny from Limerick to Cork many moons ago ( I was trying to keep back vomiting all the way) I have detested all asian cars - just bland, plastic disposable rubbish.
Alfa's represent the best of the European cars - just so much style and little touches that make me smile on every journey.

Ernie Ball

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

Alfa's represent the best of the European cars - just so much style and little touches that make me smile on every journey.

You shoulda been in my Toyota MR2 with the top down in the Wicklow Mountains today. Absolutely glorious day, the car was eating up the roads, wind in what's left of my hair. Unbelievable.

I voted Japanese, needless to say. And unlike your Alfa, my Toyota gets 35 miles to the gallon and will probably go for more than 100,000 miles.

Alun

.. there was also a radio that automatically got louder the faster you went so you could still hear it over engine/road/wind noise

How impressive ... NOT! Even my old '00 Nissan Primera had one of those

bazz26

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I voted European as well. Ever since I was a passenger in a Datsun Sunny from Limerick to Cork many moons ago ( I was trying to keep back vomiting all the way) I have detested all asian cars - just bland, plastic disposable rubbish.
Alfa's represent the best of the European cars - just so much style and little touches that make me smile on every journey.

If only their durability matched their style.

Alun

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I voted European as well. Ever since I was a passenger in a Datsun Sunny from Limerick to Cork many moons ago ( I was trying to keep back vomiting all the way) I have detested all asian cars - just bland, plastic disposable rubbish.
Alfa's represent the best of the European cars - just so much style and little touches that make me smile on every journey.

And when was this exactly? 1970's perhaps? Japanese cars, indeed cars in general, have come a long way since then

Alfasudcrazy

Well this is a 1.9 JTD does average 45mpg and has 150bph - not a trace of hard plastic in sight on it and looks to die for - nuff said

Alun

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

Well this is a 1.9 JTD does average 45mpg and has 150bph - not a trace of hard plastic in sight on it and looks to die for - nuff said

What are those bumpers made of then? Old spaghetti tins? Hint: it's called ABS, a fancy name for hard plastic.

bazz26

But will everything still be working in 5 or 10 years time?

prospect

Balfa wrote:

Pretty weird poll. There are a lot of grey areas. Are european chevrolets american

Obviously I didn't make myself clear enough at the start.
This is a GENERIC poll, regarding an overview of Manufacturers in GENERAL

It is NOT model specific.

Chevrolet = USA
Daewoo = Asian

Etc. Etc.
GENERAL GENERIC

ciarsd

European vote is speaking for itself

blastman

I voted Asian/Japanese, because of the reliability and power/driveability, based on my ownership of one of their better models. Style-wise, they are behind Europe, but not everything Europe do is an Alfa GT. Have only had limited experience of American cars, so nothing really to go on.

Ratchet

blastman wrote:

Style-wise, they are behind Europe, but not everything Europe do is an Alfa GT.

yep, we have some ugly European cars too

and

NOT EVERYTHING THAT SHINES IS GOLD

TE0N

Cadillac is producing some awesome cars at the moment. If Cadillac sold them here and if I had they money, I would buy a CTS over a 3-series, C-class, A4, IS200 etc. The Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum seem to be excellent too.

I’ve driven the Chrysler 300M and thought it was a great car, 3.5 v6 for 1.8 Passat money. Only downsides were the auto and soft ride.

Don’t have much experience with Japanese cars. Although, I was with my mother when she took a Toyota Avensis Verso for a test drive, didn’t go down well at all. Same situation with the Grand Scenic, she finally settled on a VW Touran - it performed better, looked better (in sport), more room inside and IMO was better all round.

Anyway, I voted European. Somehow most European cars manage to combine desirability, economy, comfort, quality and looks to a good level (new Golf GTi is probably the finest example), although some surveys indicate that reliability has gone to pot.

Dagon

This whole argument boils down to:
1. Do you want a car with nice interior touches, lots of bells and whistles and extras, with some innovative design ideas in the cabin
2. Do you want a car that has an amazing state of the art engine that drives and responds beautifully and is ultra reliable

I guess it depends on what kind of driver you are - you are either into all the luxurious aesthetic touches of euro cars, and don't really care too much about having an engine that is dull, unreliable and regularly breaks down (or bells and whistles that regularly cause trouble). Or you want an asian beast that may look, at first glance, somewhat plain on the inside (not on the outside IMO), but those who like their engines - and those who know a bit about what happens under the hood - will always opt for such cars. And they have much nicer exterior aesthetics as well IMO, but this is really down to personal taste.

P.S. BMW and VW are kind of exceptions to this rule, as they have nice engines and are quite reliable.

Big Nelly

Voted European...had a Nissan and was a nice car but prefer the BMW and VW to them,....in the family car market....althought the new Avenis is a nice thing but European still