Driving on Motorway on L plates

jackal

Hi,
Just want to gauge the feelings on this. My G/f is learning to drive, she is very competent and has had 25+ lessons. She is on second provisional, as am I. We are going on a trip to carlingford in louth this weekend. Obviously the M1 is an excellent, fast piece of road, and would be the quickest way there.

My brother, and a freind both live in drogheda, and are on the L plates too. They use the M1 frequently, and it doesent bother them.

Should we stick to the law and use N roads to get there? Has anyone here been done for this? She wont use the Motorway one way or another, as she is a stickler, but theoretically what's your opinions, without high and mighty flaming! I am quite aware it is illegal! :rolleyes:

whippet

it is illegal.

However, I believe that insurance companies will still pay up (this is very much a grey area), should you have an accident.

On a personal point, motorway driving is a different skill to driving on ordinary roads. Proper use of lanes, slip roads and concentration at high speeds where every thing happens that little bit quicker is a skill that needs to be learned and I believe that provisional drivers shouldn't go near the motorway. However there is a failing in the 'driving test' whereby there is no allowance for teaching motorway dicipline.

It is a bizarre situation when you suddenly pass a driving test and are no deamed compentant to drive in a situation that you have been forbidden to experience only minutes previously.

Big Nelly

jackal wrote:

Hi,
Just want to gauge the feelings on this. My G/f is learning to drive, she is very competent and has had 25+ lessons. She is on second provisional, as am I. We are going on a trip to carlingford in louth this weekend. Obviously the M1 is an excellent, fast piece of road, and would be the quickest way there.

My brother, and a freind both live in drogheda, and are on the L plates too. They use the M1 frequently, and it doesent bother them.

Should we stick to the law and use N roads to get there? Has anyone here been done for this? She wont use the Motorway one way or another, as she is a stickler, but theoretically what's your opinions, without high and mighty flaming! I am quite aware it is illegal! :rolleyes:

25+ lessons!! must have cost her a fortune.....stay off Motorway....stick to the back roads.......if she gets caught she is done for!!! really not worth it in the end

spunkymunky

Its a similar situation to 1st and 3rd provisional drivers driving with out a fully licenced driver. Everybody does and the gardai dont seem to mind to much. Insurance still applies. I have done it in the past bit was always very wary and on the look out. It did take my focus away from the road a bit.
And as wippet said its is totally different, a lot more mad driving going on there.
If you were to drive on the motorway, take down the L plates. Make it a little less obvious!!!

gibo_ie

normally i am a man about the law, but i tend to agree that as long as you are very concious about staying in the correct lanes and keep an eye in your mirror, this is the only way to leard how to drive on a motorway, as whippet said, it is amazing that you are just expected to know how after taking your test.

And insurance companies do cover you regardess that this is breaking the law by driving on motorway.

Just ensure that you use passing lane for passing only and not for making your merry way along at 80kmph!!

Good luck and enjoy the trip..

prospect

jackal wrote:

We are going on a trip to carlingford in louth this weekend.

Jackal, if you are going on a weekend away, don't fek it up by getting caught on the motorway with L plates.
Go the scenic route and enjoy the drive

Esel

Do a search FFS. This was discussed *extensively* here last year.

jackal

esel wrote:

Do a search FFS. This was discussed *extensively* here last year.

Will do, Cheers!

Paul (MN)

can we have a reality check here?

how many times have you, or have you heard of anybody being pulled for having an L plate on a motorway!?

You are insured if you have an accident on a motorway while a L plater.

Just drive on the motorway like everybody else and get some experience on it. When there is a report in the paper of somebody being pulled for it and there is a blitz on it.. then stop.

cormie

Take down the L plates, keep to the limits (and by this I mean if it's 120, do 119, not 100 or you could look suspicious. I did it for 5 months on the M50, never got stopped. As I've said before, the only time I had a run in with the cops was when I was at the toll bridge and they were flashing their lights behind me in the queue so I was waved through for free and they flew off! woooo!

Although I saw the same car with 5 guys my age being pulled twice (I know them so I know it was the same car) both cars (mine and theirs) were going to the same place at the same time. I had a full car too, 5 guys my age. I kept to the limits and didn't do anything stupid. They also had tinted windows which could have given them away.

alias no.9

Both my girlfriend and I drive my car. She is on a provisional, I have a full license. I can't be bothered putting up and taking down the L plates so I leave them up all the time, after all there's no law stating that you can't display them if you have a full license. I do quite a bit of motorway driving and have never been pulled over. Having said that, just because you probably won't get caught, doesn't mean you should go straight out and do it. First of all, if you are going at a busy time, it takes a lot of concentration. Even staying in the left hand lane, you can have a lane of traffic doing between 100 and 120 kph that suddenly slows down to 80 without warning because they meet a slow moving car in front and there's no room to merge into the right hand lane because it's extremely busy too and moving at about 30 kph faster. If you're not watching your distance from the car in front, you can get quite a shock when something like this happens.

Nuttzz

Paul (MN) wrote:

can we have a reality check here?

how many times have you, or have you heard of anybody being pulled for having an L plate on a motorway!?

Indeed, and how often do you see anybody being fulled on a motorway at all? Unless they are going mad speeds or driving in the hard shoulder, no one is stopped.

I have seen a handful of people pulled on the m50 and plenty of L plates on it, and I drive it daily since 1998

Terra

Yes be watchfull of cars in front behind and to the side of you.

I personally thing that in ireland cars drive far too close to each other, especially on the motorway travelling at high speeds.

You may need to break suddenly as sometimes there can be a quick build up of traffic and you may have very little room in front and behind to comfortably slow down fast enough

Paul (MN)

you shouldn't have to break suddenly if you aren't driving to close to the car in front

ando

I've never ever seen any L driver being pulled over and no one I know has ever been pulled over for driving on the motorway. I did it when I had the L plate

Jumpy

Follow the rules of the road.
If it states an L-Plate driver cannot use a motorway. Then do not use the motorway.

Paul (MN)

Jumpy wrote:

Follow the rules of the road.
If it states an L-Plate driver cannot use a motorway. Then do not use the motorway.

only an accountant would be like that!

seriously, until we have a dedicated traffic police, and the 52 week driving test list is reduced, the police are not going to pull L drivers off the motorway. There are tens of thousands of trips made by L drivers on motorways each and every day. If you want to be the 1 person in the whole country who spends longer driving on slower back roads then fine!

prospect

Paul (MN) wrote:

who spends longer driving on slower back roads

This point could be contested especially regarding the west link toll ...

MrPudding

Paul (MN) wrote:

seriously, until we have a dedicated traffic police,

I thought we did. I have seen numerous cars now marked as "traffic corp" is this not them?

MrP

Jumpy

Paul (MN) wrote:

only an accountant would be like that!

seriously, until we have a dedicated traffic police, and the 52 week driving test list is reduced, the police are not going to pull L drivers off the motorway. There are tens of thousands of trips made by L drivers on motorways each and every day. If you want to be the 1 person in the whole country who spends longer driving on slower back roads then fine!

I never said it was a fair rule. I just said it was there. Which means it requires thought and has consequences if flaunted.
The people never do anything about stuff in this country. If you have a 52 week waiting list. Then campaign about it. Squeaky wheel and all that.

Ernie Ball

Paul (MN) wrote:

only an accountant would be like that!

seriously, until we have a dedicated traffic police, and the 52 week driving test list is reduced, the police are not going to pull L drivers off the motorway.

This is the root of the problem: the long wait for driving tests coupled with the possibility of driving on a provisional for years and years. Technically, one isn't even supposed to be driving on a provisional unaccompanied.

And what is the cause of the wait for driving tests? Well, there are probably several but one of them is the very low pass rate, largely as a result of arbitrary and capricious testing and testers. Who here reverses around a corner regularly? Frankly, I think it's a dangerous manoeuvre and should be avoided. Who here applies the handbrake twice and checks the mirrors three times while making a 3-point turn?

None of that has anything to do with safe driving.

prospect

Ernie Ball wrote:

Who here reverses around a corner regularly?

I do, every time i park in a multi-storey car park...

Jumpy

Ernie Ball wrote:

This is the root of the problem: the long wait for driving tests coupled with the possibility of driving on a provisional for years and years. Technically, one isn't even supposed to be driving on a provisional unaccompanied.

And what is the cause of the wait for driving tests? Well, there are probably several but one of them is the very low pass rate, largely as a result of arbitrary and capricious testing and testers. Who here reverses around a corner regularly? Frankly, I think it's a dangerous manoeuvre and should be avoided. Who here applies the handbrake twice and checks the mirrors three times while making a 3-point turn?

None of that has anything to do with safe driving.

Agreed with the reverse around a corner, but you should get into the mirror checking habit.

I check them repeatedly during a three pointer.

Petal

Over the weekend I saw the gardai pull over quite a few learners at the entrance to the M50 in Tallaght. When I was on provisional I drove to Galway and left my L plate on the back seat. It must have fallen off the window..

Alun

Ernie Ball wrote:

Technically, one isn't even supposed to be driving on a provisional unaccompanied.

What do you mean "technically" FFS ???!!! It's illegal, full stop, end of discussion. Now, if the Gardai are too stupid / lazy / incompetent to do anything about it, that's another thing completely, but it's still illegal!

vector

Petal wrote:

Over the weekend I saw the gardai pull over quite a few learners at the entrance to the M50 in Tallaght. When I was on provisional I drove to Galway and left my L plate on the back seat. It must have fallen off the window..

what state did you leave the front plate in?

Ernie Ball

Alun wrote:

What do you mean "technically" FFS ???!!! It's illegal, full stop, end of discussion. Now, if the Gardai are too stupid / lazy / incompetent to do anything about it, that's another thing completely, but it's still illegal!

By 'technically' I mean nothing more than its dictionary meaning: 'according to principle; formal rather than practical.'

Smoking and selling marijuana are also illegal in Amsterdam, full stop, end of discussion. But, assuming the discussion is allowed to continue, it is useful to mark a distinction between places where the law is enforced and places where it isn't. For this, we use words like 'technically.'

Alun

Ernie Ball wrote:

By 'technically' I mean nothing more than its dictionary meaning: 'according to principle; formal rather than practical.'

Smoking and selling marijuana are also illegal in Amsterdam, full stop, end of discussion. But, assuming the discussion is allowed to continue, it is useful to mark a distinction between places where the law is enforced and places where it isn't. For this, we use words like 'technically.'

There's no need to be condescending. I lived in the Netherlands for 13 years, so I'm quite aware of that particular situation. The tolerance towards the small scale selling and consumption of marijuana is an officially sanctioned one there, i.e. an agreement between all the interested parties, police, politicians, justice department etc. It's a practice that's been used in the past with regard to prostitution, for example, before that was legalised. It's called 'gedogenheid' if you're interested.

Allowing people to go out and buy a car when they reach 17, jump in it and drive on motorways, or any other road for that matter, unaccompanied with no formal training is illegal, and as far as I am aware the Minister for Justice hasn't given the Gardai carte blanche to ignore this and treat it as a "non offence", that's the difference.

prospect

There is no doubt about it,

The following should be stopped, always,

• 'L' Drivers on motorways
• Provisional license drivers without fully licensed driver
• Cars with illegal reg plates (as per another thread)
• Cars with dirty number plates
• Dodgy lights
• etc

For two reasons:
1. The law is the law, wether you like it or not
2. I am not sure of the exact statisitcs, but a very high percentage of serious criminals and drunk/high drivers, arrested in the US are first aprehended on minor motoring offences.

Ernie Ball

What happens if a person driving on a provisional alone gets in an accident?

Do the insurance companies pay out?

Downtime

prospect wrote:

• 'L' Drivers on motorways
• Provisional license drivers without fully licensed driver
• Cars with illegal reg plates (as per another thread)
• Cars with dirty number plates
• Dodgy lights
• etc

And those who insist on driving with their fog lights on all the time. They should be barred from driving

prospect

Downtime wrote:

And those who insist on driving with their fog lights on all the time. The hsould be barred from driving

I concur.

alias no.9

Ernie Ball wrote:

Who here reverses around a corner regularly? Frankly, I think it's a dangerous manoeuvre and should be avoided.

Reversing around a corner demonstrates an ability to control a car through a particularly akward manouver while maintaining observation. It is an extreme case. It is assumed that if you can competantly reverse around a corner, less complex manouvers shouldn't be a problem.

Petal

vector wrote:

what state did you leave the front plate in?

Well I figured if I was caught, I'd be fecked anyway.. or I would've just acted dumb!

Alun

Ernie Ball wrote:

What happens if a person driving on a provisional alone gets in an accident?
Do the insurance companies pay out?

I believe they're obliged by law to pay out on third-party claims, but you can whistle for your money if you try and claim for damage to your own vehicle.

Nuttzz

Alun wrote:

I believe they're obliged by law to pay out on third-party claims, but you can whistle for your money if you try and claim for damage to your own vehicle.

my cousin had no problem getting money from her insurance company for her own car after she hit another car. just an urban myth (she was on 3rd PL)

Alun

Nuttzz wrote:

my cousin had no problem getting money from her insurance company for her own car after she hit another car. just an urban myth (she was on 3rd PL)

Was she driving unaccompanied, and was the insurance company made aware of this? I'm pretty sure that if they were, they'd have refused to pay out. See this excerpt from http://www.dir.ie/interest/interest2.htm. If she was driving unaccompanied, and didn't voluntarily offer this information to the insurance company, then she could be held responsible for making a fraudulent claim.

Some ask why insurance companies continue to provide cover at all to provisional licence-holders who have failed to pass the driving test. But Mr. Michael Horan, non-life manager at the Irish Insurance Federation says insurance companies are duty bound to provide third-party cover for the protection of victims. "If someone has a licence to drive -whether its provisional or full -then by law he must also have insurance. Otherwise people who are injured through no fault of their own will have no recourse.

He says, however, learner drivers claiming for damage to their own car under a comprehensive policy may not be paid if they are found to be in breach of provisional licence regulations. The insurance company would ask serious questions if you had an accident on a motorway, or were unaccompanied when you were supposed to be. Some insurers would argue you were driving outside the terms of your policy.

sceptre

Paul (MN) wrote:

how many times have you, or have you heard of anybody being pulled for having an L plate on a motorway!?

I've heard of people getting done for it a small number of times but in every case this was an after thought as they'd been pulled for doing something illegal.

michaelanthony

whippet wrote:

On a personal point, motorway driving is a different skill to driving on ordinary roads. Proper use of lanes, slip roads and concentration at high speeds where every thing happens that little bit quicker is a skill that needs to be learned and I believe that provisional drivers shouldn't go near the motorway. However there is a failing in the 'driving test' whereby there is no allowance for teaching motorway dicipline.
QUOTE]

BS. Driving on a motorway is A LOT easier and safer than driving on normal roads.

The General

esel wrote:

Do a search FFS. This was discussed *extensively* here last year.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: STFU

causal

jackal wrote:

Has anyone here been done for this?

Check this recent post. He got stopped at a Garda checkpoint - then got a summons for:
- driving unaccompanied on a provisional licence
- no L plates

Some facts:
Neither you nor your girlfriend have earned the right to drive on the motorway; nor to drive without the company of a suitable licenced driver; nor to drive without L plates.

Some food for thought:
You can choose to break the law or not to break the law.
You can justify it or not, by your own standards or by other peoples standards.
It's your choice - what type of person do you choose to be?

causal

Ernie Ball

causal wrote:

Check
It's your choice - what type of person do you choose to be?

Whoah . . . . heavy.

Alun

Ernie Ball wrote:

Whoah . . . . heavy.

That's because being put in charge of a ton or more of metal moving at 120km/h surrounded by other road users is a serious business, and not something that everyone should be allowed to do merely because they see it as some kind of "right" rather than a privilege that can both be earned, and revoked if necessary.

I'm guessing that if you were off on your holidays somewhere and you discovered that the pilot hadn't actually got his pilot's licence, but announced that "Sure I've done a fair bit of flying meself on Flight Simulator, and I'm just as good as those dozy old feckers who have", you'd be in something of a rush to get off? Or if your mother went in to have an operation, and the doctor had learnt to perform open heart surgery by reading a book and practicing on the family dog, that you'd be outraged? Well, it's the same with driving and its about bloody time people started taking it seriously.

camarobill

prospect wrote:

There is no doubt about it,

The following should be stopped, always,

• 'L' Drivers on motorways
• Provisional license drivers without fully licensed driver
• Cars with illegal reg plates (as per another thread)
• Cars with dirty number plates
• Dodgy lights
• etc

For two reasons:
1. The law is the law, wether you like it or not
2. I am not sure of the exact statisitcs, but a very high percentage of serious criminals and drunk/high drivers, arrested in the US are first aprehended on minor motoring offences.

ur reading to many books muppeds with full license,s are as bad on the motorway,fast lane junkeys doing 50 :mad:

Guy:Incognito

You should only be allowed one provisional (which doesnt allow unsupervised driving) , that lasts for one or two years. You should be required to take a minimum number of lessons, which should obviously include motorway driving (receipts to be shown as proof on test day) and should have to pass your test in the two years. If you dont pass your test in the two years you dont get another licence. Your only way to gain more experience then is to take lessons and pass a test. It is workable in the current system, but tbh you should have to do a certain ammount of lessons and pass a test before you can buy a car.

Ernie Ball

Alun wrote:

I'm guessing that if you were off on your holidays somewhere and you discovered that the pilot hadn't actually got his pilot's licence, but announced that "Sure I've done a fair bit of flying meself on Flight Simulator, and I'm just as good as those dozy old feckers who have", you'd be in something of a rush to get off? Or if your mother went in to have an operation, and the doctor had learnt to perform open heart surgery by reading a book and practicing on the family dog, that you'd be outraged?

You don't think you're reading just a bit much into the comment 'whoah. . . heavy'? :rolleyes:

Nuttzz

Alun wrote:

Was she driving unaccompanied,

yes

Alun wrote:

and was the insurance company made aware of this?

they never asked (i dont think they ever actally ask)

Alun wrote:

I'm pretty sure that if they were, they'd have refused to pay out.

dont ask, dont tell...

Victor

Paul (MN) wrote:

only an accountant would be like that!

No an accountant would say "How does this compare to last year?"

Victor

Ernie Ball wrote:

Who here reverses around a corner regularly? Frankly, I think it's a dangerous manoeuvre and should be avoided.

It is permitted, but the mid-point should be the minor route (i.e. reverse into the minor route), not hte major route.

Victor

Ernie Ball wrote:

What happens if a person driving on a provisional alone gets in an accident? Do the insurance companies pay out?

Usually yes, but they are within their rights to (a) only pay out to third parties (b) to have you indemnify them for their costs.

vector

Victor wrote:

No an accountant would say "How does this compare to last year?"

LOL true