Architect fees

twenty8

Just wanted to check something.

I am currently preparing to build a house in Kildare. First move - go and get a good architect.

I am finding that some of the architects want to charge me €100 to talk with them - even though all I want to find out is what they have done etc etc. Basically to see if I could work with them.

Is this normal practice? I cannot believe that they would charge that when you consider that they stand to gain over €20,000. :mad:

I would appreciate your comments.

Thanks

James

PS - If you could recommend a good architect in Kildare it would be greatly appreciated!!

lomb

find someone else possibly. one way of looking at it is anyone who charges u a consultation fee is going to be far from cheap and will 'rip' u off. on the other hand they may be busy and get a lot of timewasters

the way to go about it is this. if u have a piece of land, get the maps for it from ordinance survey. u have to know what u want rather than ask an architect whats possible. so drive around, look for house designs u like, read books like plan a home etc and get an idea of what u want. take pictures of the site etc and potential houses. then approach architects, and get written quotes for services including vat. there are 3 stages to this . 1. plans to planning permission stage. these are sketchy plans showing only the bare bones structure, location maps etc. 2. detailed list of items, furnishings etc, material types this is the to tender stage where many builders can be approached and details given for a tender. 3. supervision stage.

if u know what u want my advice is choose a plan a home type service they will recommend an architect if need be. architects are dodgy characters tbh from personal dealings with them. in my case i paid a guy 3 grand to get a house overlooking the sea to planning stage when the planners turned around and said the house needed to be sited parallel to the road, which is standard practice which he should have known. so it was 3 grand down the toilet. i would almost say u are better getting planning with a plan a home system side by side with their recommended architect and an engineer to supervise the critical stages, and there are only 8 or so of these but others like roofer pete can advise u more on that.

MorningStar

Architects can be a complete rip off. Even if they know there is little or no chance of getting planing permission they will take a job on. I would talk to the planing department first. They will give you a better idea of what they want in the area first before you spend a penny.
Some architects charge a percentage of the build while others charge a fixed price for drawings or projects. If they go to charge you just to talk to them and see their work I wouldn't go to them. Unless you are doing something particularly elaborate an engineer could be a cheaper option. All said above about project management should be taken on board. It is not easy to tell a a tradesman he is doing something wrong if you don't have a clue.

lomb

MorningStar wrote:

Architects can be a complete rip off. Even if they know there is little or no chance of getting planing permission they will take a job on. I would talk to the planing department first. They will give you a better idea of what they want in the area first before you spend a penny.
Some architects charge a percentage of the build while others charge a fixed price for drawings or projects. If they go to charge you just to talk to them and see their work I wouldn't go to them. Unless you are doing something particularly elaborate an engineer could be a cheaper option. All said above about project management should be taken on board. It is not easy to tell a a tradesman he is doing something wrong if you don't have a clue.

thats very sound advice, an architect designed a house for my next door neigbour which it was impossible to get planning for due to need for retention of part of the existing cottage and shock horror he was turned down no doubt after spending thousands. and he should have known this as many others had been turned down before, they were told they needed to retain part of the older cottages as they are 100+ years old and give the road its character. my advice is talk to the planners yourself to see whats possible, they are very friendly first as architects are not magicicians when it comes to planning, by any stretch of the imagination.

rooferPete

Hi,

Most local authorities have pre-planning meetings where you meet with the official for your area and discuss the options.

The results of the meeting are not a guarantee that permission will be granted but at least you get an idea of what is acceptable for your site location.

As to the Architects, they are similar to most traders so check out their qualifications, you can also watch the local newspapers or web sites and see who is the most successful at getting permission.

As to the initial charge that could be the very Architect you need, he may just charge for all advice as time is money, that said he could be a waste of time and money.

The fee scale of 10% you indicate is usually for renovation and restoration works, new builds can be anywhere from 2 > 3,000.00 up depending on the level of service you want, I think 5% would be nearer the mark, a fixed price can be negotiated, nothing is carved in stone.

Take care in the way you instruct your Architect, if you tell him / her to apply for a particular design in a particular area they may just do as instructed, if you seek their advice as to the best way of getting permission then silly mistakes as outlined by lomb should be avoided, in fact if a Professional did that on me he would singing in high notes to get his money.

Try and get some references, you could be surprised calling to the door of a newly built house could get you all the info you need

lomb

rooferPete wrote:

Hi,

silly mistakes as outlined by lomb should be avoided, in fact if a Professional did that on me he would singing in high notes to get his money.

he was in my case he sued me thru a solicitor when i realised what he had done, he also grossly overcharged me but thats anotehr story . get a vat INCLUSIVE written estimate and fix a price and what he is including in it and ask him how detailed the first step plans will be and include if possible any amendments to get planning permission within the initial stage.

also note that plans are copyrighted and afaik u dont own the copyright to the plans even if u pay the architect for services? so it is possible if u fall out with him at the first stage then getting another guy to do the second stage to tender may be impossible unless the initial plans are very detailed and then u can get an engineer to do the materials and details etc.

again others like rooferpete can advise u more than i can as i dont have much experiance other than my own

YAPP

1. Who do you need?
An Architectural Advisor or Engineer can be the most econ method of
obtaining planning permission. You need not employ an 'Architect' for this service.
2. Supervision of the project will require a bonded/insured engineer or architect.

That said the Engineer who will offer both services is probably your best bet.
3. Plan-A-Home Book!
This is a good reference book. But becareful, these designs are copyright of Plan-A-Home; a house cannot hide and they have taken cases against companies/individuals who have used these design concepts without permission!!!
4. Plan-A-Home Design Service.
They actually are Architects. They offer a planning stage service at a good rate! They also offer a Project Tender service based preparing a Set of Specifications and Set of Tender/Working Drawings for you, and then they Provide the Service of Project Supervision, Compliance with PP and Compliance with Building Regs (all of which your Lending Instution will req).

They have offices in Carlow, Galway, Donegal and Cork.

Get a quote if nothing else, worked great for a friend of mine....

YAPP

rooferPete

Hi lomb,

Sorry if my post came across as offensive, it certainly wasn't meant to be, I was annoyed to see a so called Professional making such a stupid mistake.

The copyright on the plans is one area that most people never even think about, I saw a house sale held up for months by an Architect using the copyright as his tool to get more money.

He claimed he hadn't been paid in full for his services, I would say ok if that was true but the home owner had the receipts and the certs, it was only as the sale was about to fall through and the Architect got a letter from the Solicitor asking for proof or he would be sued for the expences of the lost sale.

Alleged Architect withdrew his legal proceedings, so make sure you keep all your paperwork, each piece can form part of the title to the house and a house with incomplete title is very damaged property.

Sometimes the Local Authority Planning office can be your best friend, a lot depends on the individual and how they are approached, and for God's sake no jokes about envelopes

lomb

rooferPete wrote:

Hi lomb,

Sorry if my post came across as offensive, it certainly wasn't meant to be, I was annoyed to see a so called Professional making such a stupid mistake.

The copyright on the plans is one area that most people never even think about, I saw a house sale held up for months by an Architect using the copyright as his tool to get more money.

He claimed he hadn't been paid in full for his services, I would say ok if that was true but the home owner had the receipts and the certs, it was only as the sale was about to fall through and the Architect got a letter from the Solicitor asking for proof or he would be sued for the expences of the lost sale.

Alleged Architect withdrew his legal proceedings, so make sure you keep all your paperwork, each piece can form part of the title to the house and a house with incomplete title is very damaged property.

Sometimes the Local Authority Planning office can be your best friend, a lot depends on the individual and how they are approached, and for God's sake no jokes about envelopes

hi, no didnt take ur post as offensive at all, the total opposite in fact sorry for any misunderstanding. yep i suppose the moral of the story is one has to keep their wits about them when dealing with architects, getting everything in writing. also when it goes to tender tender it to builders that arent the architects favourite pals who may be getting backhanders for inflated tenders. this would go on alot id say out in the countryside where everyone knows everyone.
It does have to be said i suppose though a good architect can repay himself many times but i would say thats unusual

prospect

Good guy in Celbridge:

www.adsolutions.ie