What do you make of this reponse....

py2006

I saw an ad for a nice car that said it had only 1 owner. I emailed the guy and he said it had 2 owners. I replied asking him how come the ad said 1 and what was his reason for selling.

What do you think?

This car has one owner . I bought the car and
put it in my garage. I have not used the car and therefore
never went ahead with registering myself as an owner.
I am therefore the second owner but officially the second
owner on the paperwork will be the next buyer.
On reason for selling as detailed the above I
purchased the car as a second car to be used occasionally
at weekends. However with 2 small children this never
materialised and I estimate that I have done less than 50klms
in 2 years. Therefore I have decided to sell due to lack of
use.

He claims it will be fully NCT'd till 07 when sold.

Does this sound dodgy to you?

Eoin

Two years sounds like a long time to not bother changing the ownership details. It might also mean that the car has not been taxed, as the previous owner will have received the car tax notifications in the post.

In this case, back tax for two years will have to be paid by someone - is this an MX5? If so, that is probably a 1.8 litre engine? The tax on that is going to be the guts of 500 euros per year.

I would not bother seeing the car until the current owner has registered it in his/her name and ensured that the tax is up to date - it's just not worth the headache otherwise.

py2006

eoin_s wrote:

Two years sounds like a long time to not bother changing the ownership details. It might also mean that the car has not been taxed, as the previous owner will have received the car tax notifications in the post.

In this case, back tax for two years will have to be paid by someone - is this an MX5? If so, that is probably a 1.8 litre engine? The tax on that is going to be the guts of 500 euros per year.

I would not bother seeing the car until the current owner has registered it in his/her name and ensured that the tax is up to date - it's just not worth the headache otherwise.

If that car was stolen on him in the last 2 years he couldn't do anything about it if its not in his name. madness!

It looks great in the pics, I would have to view it obviously and it will be NCT'd so it should be mechanically sound.

seamus

If you buy this car, you won't have to pay the back tax on it. The tax will only apply from the date the car is registered in your name (i.e. from the date they receive the form). Everythign else goes into the "Past Owner Period" on the tax form.

The Muppet

IT doesn't sound right to me. The seller is responsible for sending in the new owner details at the time of sale. The guy selling this car should have his name on the registration cerificate. I'd walk away .

Eoin

seamus wrote:

If you buy this car, you won't have to pay the back tax on it. The tax will only apply from the date the car is registered in your name (i.e. from the date they receive the form). Everythign else goes into the "Past Owner Period" on the tax form.

So is the previous owner (not the current seller) likely to get hit with 2 years back-tax?

I can't see why someone would not bother to register a car if they have had it for 2 years - and why the registered owner never said anything about 2 years worth of tax notifications still coming to them. This is exactly why the seller should always complete and send off the change of ownership form - can you imagine if this person had racked up a load of penalty points in the two years!

py2006

eoin_s wrote:

So is the previous owner (not the current seller) likely to get hit with 2 years back-tax?

I can't see why someone would not bother to register a car if they have had it for 2 years - and why the registered owner never said anything about 2 years worth of tax notifications still coming to them. This is exactly why the seller should always complete and send off the change of ownership form - can you imagine if this person had racked up a load of penalty points in the two years!

Yea but he claims he hasnt used it. By the look of the pics of the car, which looks like is at his house, he is a fairly wealthy guy. So he just have picked it up on whim. Money not being an option.

seamus

eoin_s wrote:

So is the previous owner (not the current seller) likely to get hit with 2 years back-tax?

Not as far as I know. The tax office probably just write it off as having not been on the road for all that time :rolleyes:

In reality though, and as you point out, if the original seller does get stung for the past tax, it's his own dumb fault for not sending off the New Owner form.

When I bought my bike around this time last year, the tax was gone by about 6 months, and the bike was still registered in the previous owner's name (before he sold it to the shop). The shop just signed it off in his name, and transferred it to me, and I wrote off the 6 months as past owner period.

I can't see why someone would not bother to register a car if they have had it for 2 years

People are strange creatures. You know the way that when the driving tester said to you "You must apply for a licence within two years or this cert expires", and you laughed because you were probably going to apply that day? You'd be shocked at the amount of people who forget, or just don't bother, and their cert expires.

py2006

You reckon he could have connections with some garage and he is just trying to flog it off.

Its a good price aswell for what it is.

Borzoi

py2006 wrote:

You reckon he could have connections with some garage and he is just trying to flog it off.

Its a good price aswell for what it is.

So, you're proposing to buy a car in a private sale from someone who admits that he isn't the registered owner? And he's giving a very good deal?

Walk Away

py2006

This is what it looks like of your curious:


Mazda MX 5 1.8

spockety

py2006 wrote:

Yea but he claims he hasnt used it. By the look of the pics of the car, which looks like is at his house, he is a fairly wealthy guy. So he just have picked it up on whim. Money not being an option.

There are lots of rich people out there who got their money in very dubious ways. Just cos he's wealthy doesn't mean he isn't a dangerous crook.

I think you would be crazy to touch this car.
But if your heart is set on it, at the very least I would ask for contact details for the previous owner, and call him, suss him out, ask him was he not bothered about the fact that his car was never re-registered etc.

blastman

The back tax at least shouldn't be an issue, I bought a car that the tax disc was seven months out of date on, just goes down to the previous owner and isn't your worry. as for the rst of it, though, does sound a bit dubious to me (although the original owner sounds a bigger wally as it's really down to him to send in the change of ownership papers).

Krusty_Clown

Hmmm... I'd certainly ensure that you're making the deal with your eyes open..
Ask him for the contact details for the current owner (they should be on the current vehicle registration cert if he never sent it in), and drop them a letter, make sure that it's all bona fida..

Also worthy of note:
How can he get it through an NCT if he's not the registered owner? I certainly had to produce documents the last time I brought my car for NCT.
If he took the car out on the road over the two years, he's done this illegally. No tax, no insurance.
Leaving a car idle for two years is not good for it. Has he had it serviced to bring it back to road-worthy condition? Look for signs of rust, poor idling, etc. (though most of this will be covered by the NCT.
Even if I had two kids (which I do), I would find the time to do more than 50 kms in an MX5 over a two year period!!

py2006

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Hmmm... I'd certainly ensure that you're making the deal with your eyes open..
Ask him for the contact details for the current owner (they should be on the current vehicle registration cert if he never sent it in), and drop them a letter, make sure that it's all bona fida..

Also worthy of note:
How can he get it through an NCT if he's not the registered owner? I certainly had to produce documents the last time I brought my car for NCT.
If he took the car out on the road over the two years, he's done this illegally. No tax, no insurance.
Leaving a car idle for two years is not good for it. Has he had it serviced to bring it back to road-worthy condition? Look for signs of rust, poor idling, etc. (though most of this will be covered by the NCT.
Even if I had two kids (which I do), I would find the time to do more than 50 kms in an MX5 over a two year period!!

You make so much sense!!! But I want it

Krusty_Clown

I would too! Wer're all probably scare-mongering, but just make sure before you part with your hard earned cash..

Eoin

Krusty_Clown wrote:

Also worthy of note:
How can he get it through an NCT if he's not the registered owner? I certainly had to produce documents the last time I brought my car for NCT.
If he took the car out on the road over the two years, he's done this illegally. No tax, no insurance.

Are you sure about the no insurance part? I am pretty sure I never had give my insurance company anything (apart from more money of course) when I bought my current car

spockety

py2006 wrote:

You make so much sense!!! But I want it

Understandable, but it's not like he has the only MX-5 for sale in the country.

Wise men say "only fools rush in".. !

mike65

As far as I can see the only thing to consider is making sure you get in touch with the previous owner, if he can verify the cars reg, milage etc then I would'nt worry too much but its also worth checking if its got any outstanding finance on it. There is a scam out there which involves ppl buying cars which have thousands of euro owed on them and getting badly hit on what the buyer thought a bargin.

Mike.

py2006

spockety wrote:

Understandable, but it's not like he has the only MX-5 for sale in the country.

Wise men say "only fools rush in".. !

There really isn't all that many MX5's for 10,000 or less worth looking at. I liked this one because it has the newer more rounded look to it.

Eoin

py2006 wrote:

There really isn't all that many MX5's for 10,000 or less worth looking at. I liked this one because it has the newer more rounded look to it.

Yeah, they really keep their value - a pretty solid investment. Don't walk away from the car, but do contact the original owner to make sure all is above board, check their is no outstanding finance (search this forum for "HP Autodata" I think) and have it checked out mechanically. If the seller is on the level, then he will have no problems furnishing you will all necessary info.

Eoin

py2006

eoin_s wrote:

Yeah, they really keep their value - a pretty solid investment. Don't walk away from the car, but do contact the original owner to make sure all is above board, check their is no outstanding finance (search this forum for "HP Autodata" I think) and have it checked out mechanically. If the seller is on the level, then he will have no problems furnishing you will all necessary info.

Eoin

And I guess if he doesn't have the details of original owner etc I should walk away

Eoin

py2006 wrote:

And I guess if he doesn't have the details of original owner etc I should walk away

Those details will be on the ownership certificate, so he should have them. However, I can not recall if the phone number is included, but you may have luck matching up the name and address in the phonebook.

Duckjob

And I guess if he doesn't have the details of original owner etc I should walk away

The previous owner details are on the licencing cert, which he HAS to have. If he makes some excuse for not producing the licencing cert, then run. When contacting the previous owner, as somebody suggested above write to them at the address shown on the licencing cert. Don't bother ringing a number, expecially a mobile if he supplies you with one, as it could be anyone.

py2006

Ok, so when I go see this guy I should ask to see:

1 Ownership details
2 ???
3 ???
4 ???

Please fill in the for me

Our man in Havana

I would ring the dept of the enviornment and find out :

1. Who is the current owner
2. If the car is flagged as stolen, wrote off etc.

vector

While the sellers story of having it in his garage is probably true, the fact remains that the seller doesn't own the vehicle, thus he cannot sell it and you cannot buy it from him.

If you hand over the dosh and take it away the actual owner could materialise anytime.

py2006

He says he hasn't registered it in his name. Does that mean that he doesn't own it?

vector

py2006 wrote:

He says he hasn't registered it in his name. Does that mean that he doesn't own it?

AFAIK only a registered motor dealer can successfully claim ownership of a vehicle without his name being on the "log book"

Establishing ownership of an item is often difficult, for example a chair or table, but for larger items like a plot of land, a house, a car certain official documents show the ownership

Our man in Havana

py2006 wrote:

He says he hasn't registered it in his name. Does that mean that he doesn't own it?

In law the owner on the cert may not be the actaul owner. It says as much.
But if the orignal owner contacts the gardai and they come after you then you will be screwed and the other guy will have your money.

causal

py2006 wrote:

Ok, so when I go see this guy I should ask to see:
1 Ownership details

Check the chassis number and the engine number on the car match those on the VRC, and the chassis number on the VLC.

The name and address of the current registered owner should be on the VLC; and the VRC should have a name and postal address - presumably the same as on the VLC.

If he says that he doesn't have the VLC and/or the VRC then ask him how he intends to pass the NCT - because he needs both of those documents for the NCT.

That's a 98 car - has it been NCT'ed at all?

causal

py2006

Well I dont know the history, I am going to try and arrange a viewing for tommorrow evening. Hopefully I will have somebody with me who will be able to ask all the right questions as I really wouldn't have a clue.

He did say that it will be fully NCT'd before sale.

seamus

vector wrote:

While the sellers story of having it in his garage is probably true, the fact remains that the seller doesn't own the vehicle, thus he cannot sell it and you cannot buy it from him.

If you hand over the dosh and take it away the actual owner could materialise anytime.

Not true. As Bond says, the cert doesn't confer right of ownership anymore than having a key proves you own the house.
Property law isn't that simple.

causal

py2006 wrote:

He did say that it will be fully NCT'd before sale.

Take anything that involves the future tense with a large grain of salt.

Examples:
Yeah, that'll be fixed when you collect it.
Oh we'll have it fully valeted for you.
It will definitely be here tomorrow.

You're right to bring someone who knows what to ask, and what to look for and what it should look like - preferably someone who is a mechanic or familiar with that specific model of car.

causal

Duckjob

Personally, I'd walk away from a car that wasn't registered in the name of the person standing in front of me, or wasn't registered to the address to which I had traveled to see it.

If somebody is on the level, they shouldn't have any problem with you confirming that they are, and there's always another car...

Hash Boy

Bottom Line: He does not have the right to sell this car to you, as he is not the registered owner.

FuzzyZoeller

Went with a friend to see an astra last year, and faced the same setup. Seller was not the registered owner, even though he had the car for over a year. His excuse was that his brother owned a garage and gave the car to him to see if he'd like to buy it. He decided not to, and bought a Saab instead??!!

Anyway, while snooping around, found the cert in the owners manual, and the car was owned by a sales company. However, also found a receipt from an auction house, stating the milage to be 20K more then the clock was showing now!

Moral of the story? We got lucky, the seller was new to the con business, but up to that point the car looked like a bargin.

py2006

Hmmmm interesting, I am a bit nervous now about it. I am emailing him now to arrange to view the car later today

py2006

Just contacted to tell him I was popping over to view the car. He claims he got a deposit on it and now its no longer available

Damn I liked that car

seamus

Yep, age-old trick.

Ring the original owner and ask him how many miles were on it when he sold it.

causal

py2006 wrote:

Just contacted to tell him I was popping over to view the car. He claims he got a deposit on it and now its no longer available

Damn I liked that car

Maybe it was a con and he reads boards.
Console yourself with an old saying: "if it's too good to be true - then it isn't true"
Like others said, there are other cars so don't fret too much

causal

py2006

not for such a good price
Looks like I will have to pay closer to 15,000 now

Eoin

What spec are you looking for?

edit:

Check out carzone.ie, there are a few 1998 ones for around 12,000. Just saw the one you were looking at there as well which is strange as Carzone rarely has private sales on it AFAIK (there is no option to advertise a car privately there anyway)

py2006

eoin_s wrote:

What spec are you looking for?

edit:

Check out carzone.ie, there are a few 1998 ones for around 12,000. Just saw the one you were looking at there as well which is strange as Carzone rarely has private sales on it AFAIK (there is no option to advertise a car privately there anyway)

Yea I have been checking carzone.ie, cbg.ie and autotrader.ie daily for the past couple weeks.

I believe I have come accross a few private sales there alright.

I am basically looking for an MX 5 Roadster 1.8. Black, blue, silver.

Seth Brundle

1. check with the gardai to see if the car has no illegal history
2. ask the owned how many times exactly the car was driven in the two years he has owned it? (I know they already said never)
3. ask a mechanic how much it will cost to get the car roadworthy again - it will need a full service [oils, fluids, brakes, new tyres...] as sitting there for two years is not good for the car! Was it garaged all the time?

JohnBoy

I gave up reading, but just a few points.

you can declare a car as having been off the road, I only did it once, but It involved me walking into the garda station (across from the tax office) and telling em "the tax people said ye have to stamp this" job done, car off road no 12 months back tax to be paid.

you can insure a car without tax, but it's not supposed to be possible to tax a car without insurance

you can get a car NCTd without any documentation whatsoever. I've done it where I wanted to get a test done before the vlc got back from shannon, also know people who've used a tax renewal notification as ownership documentation.

sorry if this has been said

py2006

JohnBoy wrote:

I gave up reading, but just a few points.

you can declare a car as having been off the road, I only did it once, but It involved me walking into the garda station (across from the tax office) and telling em "the tax people said ye have to stamp this" job done, car off road no 12 months back tax to be paid.

you can insure a car without tax, but it's not supposed to be possible to tax a car without insurance

you can get a car NCTd without any documentation whatsoever. I've done it where I wanted to get a test done before the vlc got back from shannon, also know people who've used a tax renewal notification as ownership documentation.

sorry if this has been said

Good advice!
The car in question is actually no longer available now. So I am still on the look out for a nice MX5 and I am also starting to look at MR2's (see other thread)