Plasma, LCD or "normal TV"

Rizzo the Rat

Hi
I was just wondering what kind of TVs people recommend for watching satellite TV?
i hear the quality with a plasma is not as good with other options.
I am thinking of buying a 32" LCD TV and was wondering does anyone else have a LCD TV for Sky and how do they find it? Is it worth the financial outlay in terms of picuture and sound quality?

Tony

Rizzo the Rat wrote:

Hi
I was just wondering what kind of TVs people recommend for watching satellite TV?
i hear the quality with a plasma is not as good with other options.
I am thinking of buying a 32" LCD TV and was wondering does anyone else have a LCD TV for Sky and how do they find it? Is it worth the financial outlay in terms of picuture and sound quality?

Best value at the moment I think are back projection Tv's

shinobi

Tony wrote:

Best value at the moment I think are back projection Tv's

Do they support HDTV? I know very little on the subject, but I have read that SKY are releasing HDTV in 2 years. Very little point forking out big money for a telly that might potentially be obselete in 2 years.

Tom Dunne

Personally, I would recommend a projector. Can't bet it for picture size, and quality is perfect too.

Tony

shinobi wrote:

Do they support HDTV? I know very little on the subject, but I have read that SKY are releasing HDTV in 2 years. Very little point forking out big money for a telly that might potentially be obselete in 2 years.

no only a TV with HDMI socket will support HDTV AFAIK

Psygnosis

are projectors OK for general use like TV I thought they were mainly used for films gaming etc.
Correct me if I am wrong though

JDxtra

Psygnosis wrote:

are projectors OK for general use like TV I thought they were mainly used for films gaming etc.
Correct me if I am wrong though

...I'm sure they are fine, until you open the curtains.

pH

My projector(AE500) is great for Sky (Much better than a LG Plasma that I also have). howver as mr dempsey pointed out, I can watch the plasma with the curtains open on a bright summer day, the Projector really needs a darkened room for it to be right.

The other thing about the projector is it's a little noisy, though with the surround sound booming thats not a problem!

digitaldr

Am I right in thinking that most of the regular broadcasters eg BBC ,ITV ,RTE etc won't be supporting HDTV in the foreseeable future? I'm guessing that the first HDTV broadcasts will probably be movies and maybe some sports fixtures so if you don't subscribe to these channels it's going to be a long time before you experience HDTV.

watty

Most Plasma and LCD that claim to be HDTV ready only support "entry level" HDTV, 720 lines. This is a huge improvement for US / Japan viewers on NTSC with really big sets (525Line NTSC has about 480 viewable lines).

TV are smaller in Europe and 576 viewable lines so "entry level" HDTV is not so impressive, which is why US/Japan has HDTV some while.

You need at least a 48" set to get any HDTV advantage (unless you are very close to screen).

Plasma also have a question over lifetime. LCD the lamp needs replaced as often as an entire plasma panel last.

LCD and Plasma do not have as good colour and shade accuracy as CRT, which is why high end professional Phot retouching still recommends CRT for PCs.

Some LCD units in projectors are not good on dark shades and black, merging them all into a murky grey.

Projectors have advantage that for same money you can get:
* Very much higher resolution (1080 line HDTV rather than just 720)
* Variable screen size from 36" to 84" quite easily. Many programs you might want small, Films big.
* You can get adjustable aspect ratio screen (rolls up sideways instead of up/down). Since there will always be films wider than 16:9 and old good TV and Films less than 16:9, this is VERY nice compared with a fixed ratio CRT, Plasma or LCD TV.

Even with our own ordinary projection screen when we borrow the LCD projector from work, It is very nice to adjust amount unrolled to make screen shape match the video.

Any size above 32" I would go for LCD / DLP projector. 32" is minimum for ORDINARY Widescreen TV to have a decent size 4:3 picture!

48" is definately minimum for HDTV. or else you won't notice much difference.

Note that a lot of cheap 28" WS TV and cheap 26" ordinary TV do not even show all the detail of regular DVD/ DVB/TV etc. Compare a 32" Sony / Philips / Mitsubishi WS etc at 10ft viewing distance with good regular picture and HDTV.

Note many Sky channels do not even use full "PAL" DVBs resolution of 720 x 576. Some channels even run at 1/4 screen quality (Shopping) and ITV3 runs at SVCD resolution!

watty

jdempsey wrote:

...I'm sure they are fine, until you open the curtains.

At 4ft to 5ft image, the picture on a decent projector is just as bright as a regular TV.

Check the "Lumens" of the Projector.

With direct reflected sunlight I can't watch the regular CRT at 8.00am. If I move about to a different seat I can. A good projection screen will actually reduce that angled glare.

Ulsterman 1690

Plasmas suffer from screenburn (particularly with channels which insist on onscreen idents :mad: )

If you go for an LCD ensure that the backlight can be got as a seperate item from the LCD In some models the LCD and backlight are one sealed unit which is a very bad idea given that
1) the backlight is the component most likely to fail
2) The LCD is the most expensive part of the TV/monitor

CRT's are bulky and (for the enviornmentally conscious among you) use a lot of electricity but a good one will give better picture (arguably) than an LCD or plasma

Tom Dunne

Psygnosis wrote:

are projectors OK for general use like TV I thought they were mainly used for films gaming etc.

They can be used for whatever you want to use them for

They have standard inputs - so you can plug almost any domestic audio/video equipment into them, including Sky boxes. Sky, in fact, looks quite good on the projector (Kay Burley and Lisa Burke, slurp ).

ixtlan

Hi guys,

This is a subject close to my heart. I currently have a 29" 4:3 TV but am considering getting an LCD/Plasma. However this is not really a good time as prices are continuing to drop...

How... my opinions on these options... My greatest respect to you all and I don't want to start a flame war, but some of the comments have been a little misleading. Just to clarify of course, my comments are based on extensive reading of articles and newsgroup postings rather than personal experiece, but I think they are accurate...

Back-projection TV... Hmmmm yes definitely the best value for the size, but the cheap ones seem to me to have rather poor display quality and certainly they are not popular for that reason.

Lifespan... where did this thing about the lifespan of LCD backlights come from??? I've never ever seen an LCD backlight fail... and I've seen some laptops that have had been in use for 6 years. Yes, I admit this isn't the same level of usage as a TV would have, but still, surely if it were a problem I'd have seen it? Yes, there's a lifespan for the backlight... but it's 10's of thousands of hours, which translates into at least 7 years of intensive viewing... Plasmas (and even CRTs) have the same kind of lifespan issues... ie they have one... I'm not sure which is better but the point I would make again is that the lifespan of LCD/Plasma is likely to be long enough to satisfy you... Yes it will fail but in 7-10 years time you'll be able to get a replacement TV for a fraction of what you'll be paying today... Has anyone heard of a backlight bulb on an LCD being replaced?

Projectors... the biggest problem with this is the lifespan of the bulb. It will vary with the model but could be as low as 1000 hours and probably won't be above 5000 hours. If you use it for special movies this is OK, but for regular day to day viewing it would not be cost effective. I agree with the comments about the quality and size, and I've borrowed the work projector too !! but I don't think it's a viable option for normal viewing.

Watty is perhaps overly dismissive of HDTV... I have seen others make the comments that he has about the benefits of HDTV being less noticeable on PAL systems, which is true... and I have no direct experience, but I suspect that it's exaggerating to day that only a 48" TV will give much of a benefit... I suspect it would be easily noticeable on a 32" LCD and impressive on a 40"... Anyhow... that may be an academic discussion since the points made about the availibility of HDTV are accurate...


Sky will start broadcasting HDTV in 2006 in order to be ready for the world cup. They will be hoping to get lots of early adopters to buy in for their plasmas/lcds. However it's likely that they will just initially do sports, some movies, and maybe selected shows. Certainly there will be limited content. Also remember that Sky will require a HDCP enabled input for most of their HD broadcasts... As for other broadcasters, I'm open to correction but I think that no one else has laid out any timetable for HD rollout. Indeed they have not even taken decisions on the format of the HD content.. ie what codec might be used. So.... while I know you (and I) would like a future-proof TV that does HD, it probably is the case that HD won't be mainstream on Sky until 2007/2008... and for other broadcasters... who knows???

You can read much on the web about comparisons of CRT/Plasma/LCD. Also read the forums on http://www.avforums.com

I see http://www.komplet.ie now have a DiBoss 32" LCD for €1499. Somebody on avforums has ordered one of these so there might be a review there next week.

It's a tough call... with the prices dropping so much and the technology improving. I can't comment myself on the LCD quality with Sky but see what people say on avforums... they appear to be generally happy except with some of the low-bitrate channels.

The unknown question is when is the best time to buy... It's hard to buy something and then find that the price has dropped by 30% 9 months later. It seems likely that there will be price drops beyond what has happened already. And it's not just the price... response times and black levels (a big problem for LCDs) get better with each generation.

If you need to buy I'd get a 32" LCD. I'm tempted by the DiBoss one, but if I waited until next year I could probably get a 37" for under €2000. We'll see..

Ix.

marksi

Unless you have money to burn, and a crystal ball, buy a decent quality CRT for now. The prices of LCD are falling fast and the technology is improving very quickly. Now isn't the time to spend a load of money in this area. None of the other options will give you as as good a picture for the money as a CRT. The only reason I would presently buy anything else would be if space was the over-riding factor, in which case an LCD would be the one to go for. Don't under any circumstances buy a cheap plasma. Resolution will be crap and screen burn is a problem, as is lifespan.

Ulsterman 1690

Believe me LCD backlights fail a lot more often than you think OK so you may have a seven year old laptop where the backlight still works but then again I know someone who has an old Pye black n' white valve dual standard TV that still works :rolleyes:

Most LCD backlights use "cold cathode" technology (glorified flourecent lights) Some tiny sets use LED backlights and over the next few years we will see these being used on larger displays as well. These should (theoretically anyway) prove more reliable than cold cathode

ixtlan

Marksi is correct. You can get very very good 32" CRTs for maybe 600-700euro... and they will be the best value... and yes, better quality than a flat panel.

I guess it depends how seriously you take TV ! For me a 32" CRT (30" really) isn't a big enough increase over my 29". A 32" LCD maybe is... or maybe not... 37" would be better. a 32" LCD is close to a 36" CRT which would cost as much...

If you can talk yourself into it, and have a relative who would like a shiny TV in a year or two, buy a CRT now and get a bigger LCD when the prices have dropped further.

Or get the LCD now, and justify it with the knowledge that you have to pay to have the shiny toys first...

As for plasmas... I know some people like them very much... but as time goes on LCDs will dominate more...


Ix.

Tom Dunne

marksi wrote:

Unless you have money to burn

I've just looked up the cost of replacement bulbs for my projector. Around 200 Sterling. :eek:

If I had a known that, I probably would have bought a 32"

digitaldr

The way I see it is by the time mainstream broadcasters roll out HDTV in Ireland and SKY provide more than Sports/Movies in HDTV any HD TV you buy today will be hopelessly obsolete! It will probably even take a few years before higher capacity optical discs/players are affordable - if they ever agree on a format.

Marcopolo85

Rizzo the Rat wrote:

Hi
I was just wondering what kind of TVs people recommend for watching satellite TV?
i hear the quality with a plasma is not as good with other options.
I am thinking of buying a 32" LCD TV and was wondering does anyone else have a LCD TV for Sky and how do they find it? Is it worth the financial outlay in terms of picuture and sound quality?

Have seen several of these working on Analogue/digital cable, analogue terrestrial, Dsat, and DVD. In my opinion, (and I'm speaking from a purely observational perspective, not technical - after all it's what the picture looks like that counts) the only three that show anything resembling a very good CRT picture are (order 1 - 3).

Panasonic 42"
Philips 42"
LG 42"

All three come in at around €4K. Anything below that seems to be very poor. Even a Sony (viewed with a demo DVD connected) was borderline. Where they really keel over is if there is a lot of picture detail, or a fast-moving scene (i.e. sports).

Saw a 100 Hz 32" Sony CRT on analogue cable the other night - it was absolutely perfect. Hard to tell the difference in the house between analogue & digital. A plasma wouldn't hold a candle to it.

pH

Not picture related - but the ability to hang the flat panels on wall is the dog's danglies, my LG looks great on the wall (Not a wire showing) until you turn it on!

The AE500 should get 5000 hrs out of a bulb. Thats 1000 days @ 5hrs a day. I don't watch if for anything like 5 hours a day, so I should easily get 3 years out of a bulb. For someone like me, long before 3 years is up, I'll be replacing it with the next cool thing, so it isn't really a consideration.

Even at 400 euro a pop, I could get an AE500 + 2 spare bulbs for about the same as a low end plasma. Thats 10+ years of viewing.

dancin

Rizzo the Rat wrote:

Hi
I was just wondering what kind of TVs people recommend for watching satellite TV?
i hear the quality with a plasma is not as good with other options.
I am thinking of buying a 32" LCD TV and was wondering does anyone else have a LCD TV for Sky and how do they find it? Is it worth the financial outlay in terms of picuture and sound quality?

Moved from a 32" CRT widescreen to a 30" LCD in Jan, and very happy. Wife is delighted with it hanging over the fireplace in place of the mirror that was there. Also freed up a load of space in the corner where the old CRT and it's stand were.

We have SKY, and the image quality is good.

I will tell you though that you can notice a difference between channels in the quality of the image. The movie Channels, BBC, RTE all come through brilliantly. But some other channels like ITV3, UK Living etc... you can see mixelation on and poor contrast on some of their show's. Probably a bandwidth and quality of original contant problem. To be honest you got the same thing on the old 28" TV, but the LCD show's it up more.

DVD's and Games console (XBOX) come through brilliantly.

A mate has a back projection TV, and the image looks constantly washed out, not very sharp. Maybe it's the way he has it set up? But he's a techie, so would expect that he would have set it up correctly.

My neighbour has a 42" plasma. That too looks great, but it shimmers a little.

You should consider where you plan to place the TV. A rule of thumb I picked up from avforums is that you should be sitting a distance from the screen that is between 7 - 9 times the height of the screen. This may explain my neighbours shimmering Plasma.

I've gotten used to the LCD, and tend to nit-pick the image quality on some show's (Morse on ITV3 is a good example), but a mate called around last week and was blown away by it. He has a 28" CRT, and it now thinking of getting an LCD.

Sound from it is good, but for the money, I would expect them all to have good sound.

Yep it cost a lot (€1500), but then again a good quality 32" CRT widescreen is around a grand, the additional €500 isn't that much, especially as it's now up on the wall away from the kiddies grubby hands.

strettie

Dancin

what make is your LCD ?

and any blurring with sports coverage

Strettie

marksi

I was in Currys last night. They havd a huge range of LCD and plasmas now and I spent a while having a look at lots of them to see what the differences in picture quality were. Picture on some was awful but now and then I'd stop at one and think it was very good. That is, until you then go and look at the CRTs, which are of course not placed beside the LCDs, back projectors and plasmas.... and I repeat what I said before. Unless space is the main issue, you're not going to beat a CRT for picture quality. Not just yet, anyway.

Macy

So anyone know where's doing the best deals on tele's at the moment?

dancin

strettie wrote:

Dancin

what make is your LCD ?

and any blurring with sports coverage

Strettie

It's a Mitsubishi, model MD30LCD.

It's great for watching Football matches, the only sport it gets regular use with.

The only motion related problems are when there is a large object on screen (say a close up of someone's head) and it's moving rapidly from side to side (say the head viewed from the side, and it's vigerously nodding). Get a trailing effect from the border of the object.

ixtlan

Actually I've just gone and bought a 32" CRT, 32pw6518 philips. Compared to my 29" Sony, it's a 22% increase for widescreen and an 11% size decrease for 4:3.

I'm just a TV obsessive... and the WS broadcasting that RTE started just convinced me I could not wait for LCDs for fall enough in price. I figure I can swap Tvs around the family a bit and be very popular. Next year maybe I'll look at a 37-42" LCD...

Komplett now have 3 models of 32" LCD, including a new Benq model which does have HDCP for future Sky at 1300, but really it's amazing how fast the prices are dropping.

I paid 540 for the Philips, which was just too tempting...

Ix

Macy

ixtlan wrote:

I paid 540 for the Philips, which was just too tempting...

Where did you get it, if you don't mind me asking?

ixtlan

Not at all...

Dwyers electrial in Togher, Cork. They have a web-site at www.dwyers.ie, but it seems that at the shop the prices are a little lower, and they delivered free to me, since I'm only 5 miles away.

It's an interesting place. Their prices are always excellent, usually better than UK internet prices. I could not find the 32PW6518 for better than this on-line. They are located in an industrial estate, with a carpark right outside the door, which will be convenient if I have to return it...

I didn't seek out that model. I might have gone with Sony/Panasonic/JVC. It was just the convenience of it being apparently well reviewed, and cheap in the shop. Dwyers appear to sell nothing but Philips TV/hi-fis... they must be an exclusive re-seller.

And I'll add that I have no affiliation with them...

So far the TV seems fine... It takes some getting used to because I had the Sony set to auto, so that widescreen was compressed, ie anamorphic and smaller than the screen, widescreen broadcasts were small and 4:3 were big. Now I have the new TV on auto, so widescreen seems big and 4:3 is small and with left and right black bars. I hate any distortion. Also, it takes some time to get a brightness/contrast that feels right to me. I'm still working on it.

Ix.

I'll probably still stick with a CRT for the moment. To me it seems that LCD televisions just look like watching internet streaming video, at least for digital TV anyway. Removing the scanlines exposes the compression artefacts even more.
I also wouldn't trust a plasma due to the risk of burn in, especially where DOGs come into play.