2 into 1 system: Accident waiting to happen?

Boggle

I was driving to Cork (from Limerick) last night and saw for the first time the new 2 into 1 system that the govt has proposed. While its all fine and grand having an overtaking lane, I would have to take issue with the medians (poles connected by a cable or something) as I cannot help but think that its only a matter of time before someone (more than likely a biker) gets killed off them. Lets face it, if a car pulls accross a biker forcing him into the poles, they may stop the bike from going across into the other lane but the poor biker will be knocked from the bike into oncoming traffic.

Has anyone else seen this new system?? What do you think of it?

Khannie

Havent seen the system myself, though I can imagine it from your description. I remember there being discussion about this a while back on the radio and AFAIK this is a tried and tested system in other countries, though what you point out is definitely a risk.

GoneShootin

Isnt it a 2km stretch of overtaking road? If the vehicles cant get out of eachothers way by then there is no hope for us...

BigCon

Any pics?

musician.ie

The main problems with it are:

1. The guinea-pig road has way too many junctions
2. People are hogging the right lane
3. There are only 2 short stretches of double lanes heading in both directions
4. People are dicing with death by insisting on overtaking even when they see roadmarkings indicating that the overtaking lane is about to end.

I know I would rather hit that median barrier than cross the road into oncoming traffic. It's bad for motorcyclists though.

Boggle

Any pics?

No, sorry. If anyone on boards is in Cork then maybe they could take a few snaps so that you can see what I'm on about.

Isnt it a 2km stretch of overtaking road? If the vehicles cant get out of eachothers way by then there is no hope for us...

Unfortunately its a fact of life that some motorists do not always see bikers and (from what I hear as I'm not a biker) somone pulling out in front of you/across you is not unheard of. Whereas before you could go across the white line if you were in real trouble - now that option is gone.

I know I would rather hit that median barrier than cross the road into oncoming traffic. It's bad for motorcyclists though.

Why not use solid barriers though instead of poles as with a solid barrier if you hit it, you will not be stopped just guided in the direction of traffic. With these if you lose the car then you lose it into a pole of unknown strength.. (not explaining myself well so sorry)

spockety

GoneShootin wrote:

Isnt it a 2km stretch of overtaking road? If the vehicles cant get out of eachothers way by then there is no hope for us...

This is Ireland.

There'll be a tailback of about 50 cars doing 50mph thanks to someone at the head of it in a Nissan Micra out for the day.
The overtaking lane comes along, and someone near the front pulls out into it, doing 53mph, with a 50 car tailback also behind them. by the time the 2 km stretch is up, about 2 cars will have managed an overtake.

GoneShootin

Im sure that will be the exception rather than the rule. Whats peoples hurry anyway? Leave in good time and you *will* make it - in one pieve hopefully.

Turner

The pole/wire medians are excellent at preventing vehicles from crossing over to the other side of the road. They were discussed here before

Video of them stopping a truck
http://www.ingalcivil.com.au/highway/guardrail.htm#
and click on FLEXFENCE WRS in blue on the right hand side.

As for dangers to bikers.. if a biker hits anything at speed they are going to come off seriusly injured or killed, we know it and bike riders know it. Its the risk they take when they get on on one.

Its not as though hay bails or cushions can be erected on every part of the road system incase a bike rider comes off his bike.

bazz26

spockety wrote:

This is Ireland.

There'll be a tailback of about 50 cars doing 50mph thanks to someone at the head of it in a Nissan Micra out for the day.
The overtaking lane comes along, and someone near the front pulls out into it, doing 53mph, with a 50 car tailback also behind them. by the time the 2 km stretch is up, about 2 cars will have managed an overtake.

Was on that stretch of road on Sunday afternoon, low and behold there was a convoy of 10 or 12 vehicles stuck behind a farmer and his 10 year Nissan Patrol pulling a horse box doing 60kph. :mad:

GoneShootin

bazz26 wrote:

Was on that stretch of road on Sunday afternoon, low and behold there was a convoy of 10 or 12 vehicles stuck behind a farmer and his 10 year Nissan Patrol pulling a horse box doing 60kph. :mad:

Would you expect the farmer to clock 100kph and endanger the lives of his livestock just so you can get to wherever you were going on time?

Boggle

As for dangers to bikers.. if a biker hits anything at speed they are going to come off seriusly injured or killed, we know it and bike riders know it. Its the risk they take when they get on on one.

Can't view video's here unfortunately so can't view the film. As for the risks bikers take, I understand that you cannot place bales all around the country and that but I would at least like to see something that would give you a chance. To be honest, I have seen older 2 into 1 systems with no barrier and it strikes me that this would be preferrable. I understand that they offer no protection from traffic coming across the road but I would wonder if more lives will be lost due to the barrier than due to traffic coming across the road.

Obviously I've no data to base this on, rather just a gut feeling that it's a potential added risk.

Boggle

Im sure that will be the exception rather than the rule. Whats peoples hurry anyway? Leave in good time and you *will* make it - in one pieve hopefully.

Well when your stuck behind someone doin 40 mph in perfect conditions and on a good road you can get frustrated regardless of how much/little time your losing. At these speeds you would have to wonder how safe you are as mentally it's tempting just to switch off as driving just becomes so ??mundane??....

bazz26

GoneShootin wrote:

Would you expect the farmer to clock 100kph and endanger the lives of his livestock just so you can get to wherever you were going on time?

I'm not going to get involved in a troll about what speed farmers should be doing.

The point I was trying to get across was that this new traffic design is not very good on a 2km stretch of straight road. They obviously did not have Irish roads, with twists and bends every couple of kms, in mind when they designed this system.

MrPudding

They have these 2 into 1 systems in France. I have also seen them in the North. I have never seen them with barriers though. They seen to work well in France.

MrP

GoneShootin

bazz26 wrote:

I'm not going to get involved in a troll about what speed farmers should be doing.

The point I was trying to get across was that this new traffic design is not very good on a 2km stretch of straight road. They obviously did not have Irish roads, with twists and bends every couple of kms, in mind when they designed this system.

No, your post was simply joining in with the bashing of slow drivers. Loe and behold a FARMER was doing a certain speed, causing a long tailback. Tailbacks happen all over the country on every other secondary road, hardly reason to immediately doubt the validity of the 2km overtaking system or the barriers used.

prospect

Straying from the point a bit:

Boggle wrote:

someone doin 40 mph in perfect conditions and on a good road

What worries me is that these people seem to be incapable of driving faster, which begs me to question to respond quickly in an emergency situation! So I like to get past them as quick as poss, and open a bit of a distance aswell!!!

Boggle wrote:

(poles connected by a cable or something)

These sound like the ones they have installed on the M50 and the M7.

GoneShootin

prospect wrote:

These sound like the ones they have installed on the M50 and the M7.

They have em at the Dublin exit of the Dunkettle Roundabout in Cork aswell I think...

Ivan E

They badly need them on the M50. There was just chicken wire there before and that was a potential death trap when a car went over to the other side. In fact there was a bad accident a few years ago where a car went over and killed a few people on the other side as well as the occupents of that car too.

Eurorunner

Havnt seen the stretch of road your talking about but have driven on roads on the continent that use the 2+1 system - and they work well.

Its the perfect solution for Ireland at the moment - we can get more roads upgraded and still allow for full expansion to 2 each way if the routes get busier in the future.

peasant

Anyone driven from Boyle to Sligo recently? The new road across the curlew mountains has a perfect 2-1 system. Two lanes going uphill, one going down. Ok ..technically speaking they're probably slow lanes, but well built and signposted. No need for barriers. Big fat white lines do the trick as well.

On similar roads on the continent I have seen dividers that look like orange paddles on the median. They would have been about 60 cm high and fold over, when you drive over them.
Wouldn't like to see those pole / wire dividers (from the video) on a narrow road without a proper, wider median. While they would stop a car from crossing into the oncoming traffic, they would still have enough "give" to allow it to hit a car in the opposite lane ...just before catapulting it right back into traffic going the same direction ...double whammy !!
Not to mention a biker going through that "egg slicer" ..brrr....