'He who enters the Conclave a Pope, leaves a Cardinal'

axer

What does this mean?
Is it - he who goes into the conclave as favourite is usually a cardinal still after??

LegacyUser

It's an old Vatican saying, meaning that whoever enter the conclave as the favourite, usually ended up not getting elected to the papacy

Sarky

Two popes enter, one pope leaves!

LadyJ

Sarky wrote:

Two popes enter, one pope leaves!

God that sounds sinister!

funky penguin

To the Thunderdome!!!

Flukey

In broader terms, it could be that if you expect to win, often you won't. A sort of "Don't count your chickens..." saying.

dudara

Pride comes before a fall and all that..

ISAW

LadyJ wrote:

God that sounds sinister!

nah it sounds dexter!
Mind you the original anti pope John XXIII entered ans asked for the robes of the Pope so he could put them on the best candidate.
They went off and got them.
Guess who he picked?

bringitdown

What happens if an antipope and a pope collide?

Do they cancel each other out?

Kingsize

only the pope bit gets cancelled out & you are left with a gigantic ANTI.

WhiteWashMan

two popes walk into a bar...

Sarky

Yes? And?

StupidLikeAFox

ISAW wrote:

nah it sounds dexter!
Mind you the original anti pope John XXIII entered ans asked for the robes of the Pope so he could put them on the best candidate.
They went off and got them.
Guess who he picked?

Hitler?

Duckjob

I love the way the bookies were giving odds on the various candiates 'winning' the papacy. Sounded like they were greyhounds - You could almost see them thundering along a racetrack with commentry etc. Dave Allen, were he still with us, would have had a field day.

btw, I hear the new pope has been dubbed 'Papa Ratzi'

StupidLikeAFox

.....who used to be a nazi

DingChavez

yes.....

Kevin_rc_ie

nah it sounds dexter!

i like it. less of the anti left ism.

limbovski

i thought that rat zigga zig ah was the favourite?

billy the squid

ISAW wrote:

nah it sounds dexter!
Mind you the original anti pope John XXIII entered ans asked for the robes of the Pope so he could put them on the best candidate.
They went off and got them.
Guess who he picked?

Dont think John XXIII was an anti-pope, and even if he was he wasnt the first.

What happens if an antipope and a pope collide?

Do they cancel each other out?

nope but usually people die. or at least they used to.

ISAW

ColHol wrote:

.....who used to be a nazi

the anti pope John XXIII picked himself

Benedict XVI was never a Nazi.

ISAW

Kevin_rc_ie wrote:

i like it. less of the anti left ism.

You have a sinister dexterity.
Go see a chiralpractor!

ISAW

Kingsize wrote:

only the pope bit gets cancelled out & you are left with a gigantic ANTI.

Actually the reaction was more complicated because there were TWO antipopes at the time. There were also Two (or three?) conclaves so in a quantum philosophy sort of event whether or not the popes were anti or not was not determined until a council actually looked into it.

The outcome of it was called the Council of constance called by Otto II I think. The French guy withdrew. John XXIII wouldnt come so Otto sent the boys over and excorted him. eventually John XXIII withdrew and that was that

Actually it was Benedict XIII who started it all!

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08434a.htm

StupidLikeAFox

Papa razi....who used to be a nazi

Yeha he was in Hitlers boy movement thing, as was the fashion at the time

Blisterman

It was compulsary to join, to be fair. You cant critisize him for it. It's like critisising an Irish person for having learnt Irish in school.

StupidLikeAFox

whos critisizing?

ISAW

ColHol wrote:

whos critisizing?

I got the impression YOU were.
I have had my differences with Rassinger even before he was made a Cardinal but I never would have catogorized him as a Hitler supporter.

StupidLikeAFox

i was just rhyming......

Sleepy

WTF is an anti-pope?

sceptre

Sleepy wrote:

WTF is an anti-pope?

Basically there have been a number of elections where the result has been disputed or where the church now regards the elected as not part of the line since Peter. Where there have been two popes at once, one is now (or then) regarded as official and the other guy (or guys) is (or are) antipope(s). There hasn't been one for about 500 years. The whole Avignon thing produced a plethora of them.

In addition there are sedevacantist antipopes. These are basically guys who regard the election of John XXIII (the newer one as opposed to the earlier antipope) as invalid (due to his calling of Vatican II which led to the dumping of the tridentine mass) as invalid and hence (because he appointed cardinals who elected each of his successive sucessors) the election of everyone since as invalid, regard the papacy as vacant because of this and declared themselves pope - one guy, Pulvermacher who called himself Pius XIII, leader of a church in Montana, was elected by a telephone poll. Obviously these guys regard themselves as the true pope and think of John XXIII, Paul VI, JP1&II and the all-new Benedict XVI as anti-popes. There's been no crossover of names so far (in other words, all the sedevacantists have taken different names to all the Rome popes).

The sedevacantists would generally be regarded as distinct from the historical antipopes. Mostly because some of them have a handful of followers, if they've even got that many. It's just too easy to become a sedevacantist pope, just tell your friends, tell the Vatican if you feel like it, get excommunicated, you're done.