American Woman seeks asylum in Ireland.

RagShagBill

Did anyone else hear or read about this story? I heard it on Newstalk at about 3pm today and tried to follow it up but couldn't find anything.

A woman from the US is seeking asylum in Ireland because she claims that George Bush is a tyranical dictator. I know, eejit. There was some lad on from the Catholic Workers' (or something like that, I can't remember the specific name). Just wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of anything written about this?

Thanks.




http://www.disillusionedlefty.blogspot.com

jank

LOL that would be class funniest thing I heard all day.

mike65

Pfffffft! Dont want her sort here, has'nt she heard of Canada? Thats whats its for!

Mike.

po0k

Canada exists at the whim of the US.

BEAT

well, it cant be done so I dont know how she plans on following through. It doesnt take a genious to read up on it, I wonder does she know what it even means? She cant be serious or she would have done her homework first.
How do people like this make the news, or better even, how do they make it in life at all.

RagShagBill

How do people like this make the news

That's the problem! She hasn't really. And yes, she was serious, she is presenting quite a large document to the people who deal with this. She arrived in Cork a few days ago and the Catholic Workers' (I know that's not right, I wonder what it was!) are treating her as if it were any other asylum case, only they used it to give out about Bush too. Lancet this and that, you know, the usual.

mike65

RagShagBill wrote:

There was some lad on from the Catholic Workers' (or something like that, I can't remember the specific name).

Thanks.

I think this lot must be who you are thinking of - http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:Ud3RI0GZRssJ:www.catholicworker.org/AllLinks.cfm+Catholic+Workers+iraq&hl=en&lr=lang_en

RagShagBill

Thank you very much, good sir. Maybe I'll find something on the story through here. These lads lookin megacool!

Bri

BEAT wrote:

It doesnt take a genious to read up on it

Genious? lol.
j/k

On the politics side of things...I'm glad this kind of thing is struggling to make the news.

DublinWriter

Freakin' hilarious. I'd say that her chances are slim to nil considering that we are the US' biggest static aircraft re-fuelling depot this side of the Atlantic.

I mean, why should the Government take a moral stance when there's six jobs at steak in the Duty Free counter in Shannon Airport.

Hobbes

Actually American does export Asylum seekers and in some cases they get it. For example I know there was a US reporter that got Asylum in the EU a few years back based fearing for his life from the US police.

pickarooney

Couple of army deserters were applying in Canada recently on the grounds they'd be executed for treason if they stayed. Anyone know what their story is currently?

Sarajka

^ We had two American soldiers try to seek asylum in Bosnia as well, to avoid troop rotations that could've seen them deployed to Iraq. One young man married a Bosnian woman and entered a religious school. Another young woman just dropped her work and made a run for it. She was arrested trying to cross the border between Croatia and Slovenia because she didn't have any identification at all - if Slovenia hadn't have entered the EU, and thus went MAD for a few weeks checking everything coming over the border, she might've made it.

moniker

according to apost on another forum this is why she might come here!!....................................................................."There is obvious disinformation being disseminated by both official and pressure groups in realion to the asylum issue.

This has led to the general confusion on why ‘asylum seekers’ come here in the first place.

If you want to know why they come here then don’t listen to the lies and propaganda of officialdom or of ‘anti-racists’.

Instead look to the facts insofar as they can be gleaned from day-to-day living in ethnically flooded areas.

Fact no 1 . They spend only a short time in Mosney which functions as a reception center -as opposed to a detention center. Here they are covered by ‘emergency provision’

They have, amongst other things, freedom of movement, choice of menu (which they constantly complain about), free healthcare and free ‘childcare facilities’, i.e. buggy prams, supplies of nappies etc. a free regular bus service into Drogheda and 19 euro a wk allowance per adult,. Of course they also have free board.

Fact no 2 they are not subjected to vetting for criminal records or screened for contagious disease.

Fact no 3. After they are processed they are moved out of Mosney and out of ‘emergency provision’.

It is now that they start to receive the real goodies.( they seem to be getting better benefits than the disabled or pensioners)

Note that they have not been processed as ‘refugees’.

They get housed normally in owner-occupier housing estates or apartment blocks and rarely if ever in sink council estates.


Their local health board supplies –and this picture is far from complete-
Furniture grants, electrical goods grants, and yes –used cars !!! complete with free driving tests and lessons (with interpreter if deemed necessary), and a whole array of grants for ‘special needs’ ,.
This can include anything from actual building and supplies of their churches, free ‘ethnic’ braided hairdos (running into hundreds a go) or filling the tank of their health-board supplied car FOC.
They also get something called ‘socialising money’.

They get what is effectively a policy of positive discrimination in placement on FAS, VTOS and maturestudentship in third level institutions. ( with the inevitable displacing of native Irish in the process.)

All this is covered by an official smokescreen of half-truths and deceptions and happens long before they get even close to having their asylum application heard.

The immigration lawyers have a vested interest in keeping the cases, and then the appeals, stretched out for as long as possible.

This list is not a total account of everything, no doubt there’s more, but it is a fair reflection of the reality and of the scale of the social engineering project and deceit being played on the people by the Government and the rest of the establishment on this issue.

The real question it seems is not so much “what is happening?’ but 'Why is it happening?'

Why when the government knows that they have something like a 90% failure rate in achieving refugee status are they so eager to integrate them into society?

Why is a blind eye been turned to systematic asylum abuse, human trafficking, criminality, importation of contagious diseases and mass orchestrated fraud to enable this enormous policy of integration by stealth"

Meh

If you really want to know what benefits asylum seekers are entitled to in Ireland, here are the facts direct from the government. I'll just go through the list and correct some of the more obvious inaccuracies

moniker wrote:

Fact no 2 they are not subjected to vetting for criminal records or screened for contagious disease.

False. A medical screening service is available to all asylum-seekers.

They get housed normally in owner-occupier housing estates or apartment blocks and rarely if ever in sink council estates.

False. From the Oasis page linked above: "You will be expected to stay at the regional centre while your application for a declaration as a refugee is being processed. You are not allowed to seek alternative accommodation in the private rented sector during this time."

Their local health board supplies –and this picture is far from complete-
Furniture grants, electrical goods grants, and yes –used cars !!! complete with free driving tests and lessons (with interpreter if deemed necessary), and a whole array of grants for ‘special needs’ ,.
This can include anything from actual building and supplies of their churches, free ‘ethnic’ braided hairdos (running into hundreds a go) or filling the tank of their health-board supplied car FOC.
They also get something called ‘socialising money’.

All false.

They get what is effectively a policy of positive discrimination in placement on FAS, VTOS and maturestudentship in third level institutions. ( with the inevitable displacing of native Irish in the process.)

False. ("As an asylum seeker, you are not entitled to free third-level (university or college) education.")

What are the bets that "another forum" is Stormfront? (I'm in work now so I can't check for myself)

Milo

moniker did you get that rant off the "Michael Howard I'm not a racist but" web-site????

ai ing

Meh wrote:

moniker wrote:

Originally Posted by moniker
Fact no 2 they are not subjected to vetting for criminal records or screened for contagious disease.

False. A medical screening service is available to all asylum-seekers.

Available versus required screening.

Meh wrote:

moniker wrote:

They get housed normally in owner-occupier housing estates or apartment blocks and rarely if ever in sink council estates.

False. From the Oasis page linked above: "You will be expected to stay at the regional centre while your application for a declaration as a refugee is being processed. You are not allowed to seek alternative accommodation in the private rented sector during this time."

The problem is the regional centres are overflowing so they need to place them somewhere. They do not seek it themselves. Also do I remember something about it being illegal for the goverment to keep them in these centres for too long?

ai ing

milo wrote:

moniker did you get that rant off the "Michael Howard I'm not a racist but" web-site????

And why when someone points out problems with the SYSTEM they are called a racist? Its attitudes like this that stop people going out and tackling these problems.

Meh

ai ing wrote:

The problem is the regional centres are overflowing so they need to place them somewhere. They do not seek it themselves.

So what? It's still false to say that they are "normally" placed in private housing estates/apartment blocks. The vast majority of asylum seekers live in reception centres. It's only in exceptional circumstances that they get rented accommodation.

Also do I remember something about it being illegal for the goverment to keep them in these centres for too long?

I'm pretty sure you don't. I saw a report on the news a few weeks back, some woman had been living in a mobile home in one of these centres for two years waiting for her claim to be decided.

Gurgle

moniker wrote:

according to apost on another forum this is why she might come here!!....................................................................."There is obvious disinformation being disseminated by both official and pressure groups in realion to the asylum issue.

This has led to the general confusion on why ‘asylum seekers’ come here in the first place.

If you want to know why they come here then don’t listen to the lies and propaganda of officialdom or of ‘anti-racists’.

Instead look to the facts insofar as they can be gleaned from day-to-day living in ethnically flooded areas.

Fact no 1 . They spend only a short time in Mosney which functions as a reception center -as opposed to a detention center. Here they are covered by ‘emergency provision’

They have, amongst other things, freedom of movement, choice of menu (which they constantly complain about), free healthcare and free ‘childcare facilities’, i.e. buggy prams, supplies of nappies etc. a free regular bus service into Drogheda and 19 euro a wk allowance per adult,. Of course they also have free board.

Fact no 2 they are not subjected to vetting for criminal records or screened for contagious disease.

Fact no 3. After they are processed they are moved out of Mosney and out of ‘emergency provision’.

It is now that they start to receive the real goodies.( they seem to be getting better benefits than the disabled or pensioners)

Note that they have not been processed as ‘refugees’.

They get housed normally in owner-occupier housing estates or apartment blocks and rarely if ever in sink council estates.


Their local health board supplies –and this picture is far from complete-
Furniture grants, electrical goods grants, and yes –used cars !!! complete with free driving tests and lessons (with interpreter if deemed necessary), and a whole array of grants for ‘special needs’ ,.
This can include anything from actual building and supplies of their churches, free ‘ethnic’ braided hairdos (running into hundreds a go) or filling the tank of their health-board supplied car FOC.
They also get something called ‘socialising money’.

They get what is effectively a policy of positive discrimination in placement on FAS, VTOS and maturestudentship in third level institutions. ( with the inevitable displacing of native Irish in the process.)

All this is covered by an official smokescreen of half-truths and deceptions and happens long before they get even close to having their asylum application heard.

The immigration lawyers have a vested interest in keeping the cases, and then the appeals, stretched out for as long as possible.

This list is not a total account of everything, no doubt there’s more, but it is a fair reflection of the reality and of the scale of the social engineering project and deceit being played on the people by the Government and the rest of the establishment on this issue.

The real question it seems is not so much “what is happening?’ but 'Why is it happening?'

Why when the government knows that they have something like a 90% failure rate in achieving refugee status are they so eager to integrate them into society?

Why is a blind eye been turned to systematic asylum abuse, human trafficking, criminality, importation of contagious diseases and mass orchestrated fraud to enable this enormous policy of integration by stealth"

Good to see you again Arcadegame

bonkey

moniker wrote:

If you want to know why they come here then don’t listen to the lies and propaganda of officialdom or of ‘anti-racists’.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I stopped reading here.

I reckon its roughly the point where the chance of reasoned, informed discsussion died.

jc

sceptre

bonkey wrote:

I don't know about the rest of you, but I stopped reading here.

Oh I kept going.

"Moniker", if you've got something to substantiate the free cars for asylum seekers statement (or the electrical goods allowance, that's actually a new one on me), kindly drop it into this thread at your convenience minus an associated rant in the same post please. If you can't do that you're not going to be of much use around here. Please note that saying that it's all hidden and sekrit or anything else to do with black helicopters or tinfoil hats doesn't count as substantiation.

If not you could do us all a favour and actually stick to the topic at hand. A thread with the word "asylum" in the title isn't necessarily a licence to thrill.

Zombrex

moniker wrote:

Fact no 1 . They spend only a short time in Mosney which functions as a reception center -as opposed to a detention center. Here they are covered by ‘emergency provision’

They have, amongst other things, freedom of movement, choice of menu (which they constantly complain about), free healthcare and free ‘childcare facilities’, i.e. buggy prams, supplies of nappies etc. a free regular bus service into Drogheda and 19 euro a wk allowance per adult,. Of course they also have free board.

I think the argument that they get "free" food and board is stupid in the extreme. Er, what it is the alternative? They are not allowed work If they didn't get food and shealter they would all be homeless and starving to death, or you would have every single asylum seeker on Grafton St. trying to get enough money for food.

They get very little actual money, they have to stay where they are told, and have to eat what they are given. TBH it sounds like hell to me, it would be like being 5 years old again, and is no state for an adult to have to live.

moniker wrote:

Fact no 2 they are not subjected to vetting for criminal records or screened for contagious disease.

They are vetted for criminal activity but often the records in the country of origin are non-existant or false. Also should we really listen to the criminal records of a repressive country with regard to a political prisioner? Would you regard those in prision in China for free speach crimes "criminals?"

They are not vetted for disease because that is irrelivent. Should we turn back people fleeing for there lives because they have HIV? We should only let in healthy political prisioners? Ridiculous in the extreme

moniker wrote:

They get housed normally in owner-occupier housing estates or apartment blocks and rarely if ever in sink council estates.

They are housed where space can be found for them. Again, what do you suggested, we house them under shop fronts on Grafton St. :rolleyes:

moniker wrote:

Their local health board supplies –and this picture is far from complete-
Furniture grants, electrical goods grants, and yes –used cars !!! complete with free driving tests and lessons (with interpreter if deemed necessary), and a whole array of grants for ‘special needs’ ,.

No asylume seeker has ever been give a car for personal use by the State. Ever. That is one of the stupidest myths about asylum seekers ever started.

moniker wrote:

This can include anything from actual building and supplies of their churches, free ‘ethnic’ braided hairdos (running into hundreds a go) or filling the tank of their health-board supplied car FOC.

They do not get free hair cuts. Another lie.

moniker wrote:

They also get something called ‘socialising money’.

They do not get "socialising money". Another lie

Despite the myths and lies put forward by the Stromfront groupies, being an asylum seeker in Ireland is possibly one of the worst states a person can be in this country (the other I can think of is being a homeless drug addict) You cannot work, you cannot choose where to live, you cannot even cook your own food. You have no money, or ability to be self sufficent. Your entire life is decide by the State. Put on top of that you are in a strange hostile country, often not speaking the language, with no resources or ability to start a life here. As I said before, it is my idea of hell, a completely alien existance from the "life" we take for granted in this country.

Moniker it is obvious that you actually have no idea what you are talking about with relation to asylum seekers (or, I would imagine, anything else) Maybe you want to piss off back to Stormfront if you are going to continue to post lies and miss information about asylum seekers.

Popperised

To anyone living in a heavily ethnically-flooded area the Offical version of benefits will be seen as a blatant smokescreen.

A full public enquiry is needed to get the 'system' out the corner it has painted itself into by deliberately lying to enable a policy of social and cultural engineering- a policy of 'assimulation by stealth'.

This type of offical lying has no place in a DemocracyIMO

Gurgle

Wicknight wrote:

Despite the myths and lies put forward by the Stromfront groupies, being an asylum seeker in Ireland is possibly one of the worst states a person can be in this country (the other I can think of is being a homeless drug addict) You cannot work, you cannot choose where to live, you cannot even cook your own food. You have no money, or ability to be self sufficent. Your entire life is decide by the State. Put on top of that you are in a strange hostile country, often not speaking the language, with no resources or ability to start a life here.

And to top it all off, if you actually managed to bring your life savings with you, or work your bollox off being ridden by the black market economy to buy a 15 yo banger of a fiesta, you get accused of getting free stuff.

MadsL

A full public enquiry is needed to get the 'system' out the corner it has painted itself into by deliberately lying to enable a policy of social and cultural engineering- a policy of 'assimulation by stealth'.

This type of offical lying has no place in a DemocracyIMO

Why? What are the social ills of living in 'heavily ethnically-flooded area' other than having to face your own prejudices on a daily basis? :rolleyes:

And no doubt you will be giving us details of your evidence that the 'system' is lying??

This type of unsubstantiated accusations of a 'stealth policy' have no place on boards IMHO

Meh

Popperised wrote:

To anyone living in a heavily ethnically-flooded area the Offical version of benefits will be seen as a blatant smokescreen.

Funny you should say that, I do live in a "heavily ethnically-flooded area" (just off Parnell Street in Dublin).

If you have any hard evidence of official lying about asylum-seeker benefits (other than "friend of a friend" and "some guy on Stormfront said") then I'd be interested to hear it.

MadsL

If you have any hard evidence of official lying about asylum-seeker benefits (other than "friend of a friend" and "some guy on Stormfront said") then I'd be interested to hear it.

Don't hold your breath.

DublinWriter

Meh wrote:

If you have any hard evidence of official lying about asylum-seeker benefits (other than "friend of a friend" and "some guy on Stormfront said") then I'd be interested to hear it.

Are you talking about the €1,500 car grant?

Meh

DublinWriter wrote:

Are you talking about the €1,500 car grant?

What €1,500 car grant?

DublinWriter

Meh wrote:

What €1,500 car grant?

The one given to asylum seekers.

Meh

DublinWriter wrote:

The one given to asylum seekers.

I am aware of no such grant, can you provide me with a link to a page describing the criteria, eligibility, etc?

DublinWriter

Meh wrote:

I am aware of no such grant, can you provide me with a link to a page describing the criteria, eligibility, etc?

I'm currently working on an article about this and I'm trying to bust some of the urban myths.

Apparently I believe that those who have their asylum application accepted are eligable for a grant based on 'special circumstances'. A friend of mine in Drogheda has a small auto-business selling older cars that he reconditions himself. I'm dropping out to him this weekend to photocopy some of the cheques he's received this week. He told me that they are made out from the Department of Social and Family Affairs are have the endorsement "Payable to Motor Trade only" at the bottom.

I've heard the a similar thing regarding hair dressing costs from my sister-in-law who runs a small hairdressers down in Wexford, but I'd like to get the copies of the car-cheques first before I check that out.

DublinWriter

Meh wrote:

I am aware of no such grant, can you provide me with a link to a page describing the criteria, eligibility, etc?

...opps, sorry, forgot to include the link in the earlier post.

It's...http://www.welfare.ie/schemes/families/swa.html
and...http://www.welfare.ie/foi/swa.html

As I said earlier, it's only on successful asylum application that you'd be entitled to the SWA.

A Dub in Glasgo

DublinWriter wrote:

The one given to asylum seekers.

You mean people who are actually successfull in proving that they are persecuted and should be granted asylum. They are not asylum seekers then.

Edit: I have just seen that you have clarified it. Interesting to see what the Headline will say

Zombrex

DublinWriter wrote:

As I said earlier, it's only on successful asylum application that you'd be entitled to the SWA.

The SWA is given to anyone in Ireland who is in immediate need of financal assistence but doesn't qualify for something like the dole (eg would be a late term pregnent woman with no income) or disability allowance.

No one on SWA gets "car grants", all you get is rent allowance (as i have already said the myth about asylum seekers getting cars is a complete lie).

Asylum seekers used to get SWA as they were not able to work, but seemingly this was too good for them (:rolleyes:) so new applicants no longer get it, they are forced to live in hostles and centres where the state puts them, forced to eat the food they are given and are not given any form of income bar the 19 euros.

Zombrex

DublinWriter wrote:

As I said earlier, it's only on successful asylum application that you'd be entitled to the SWA.

Successful asylum applicants are able to work and as such would have very little need for SWA bar specially cases just like you find amoung the rest of Irish citizens. To imply that people granted refugee status jump straight onto SWA is completely false and miss-leading, and shows a lack of understanding of what SWA actually is.

Zombrex

DublinWriter wrote:

He told me that they are made out from the Department of Social and Family Affairs are have the endorsement "Payable to Motor Trade only" at the bottom.

You cannot get "car grants" on SWA. You would be lucky to get rent allowance. I would love to see where this ridiculous myth that the State gives people free cars, or grants for cars, started from.

Meh

DublinWriter wrote:

...opps, sorry, forgot to include the link in the earlier post.

It's...http://www.welfare.ie/schemes/families/swa.html
and...http://www.welfare.ie/foi/swa.html

As I said earlier, it's only on successful asylum application that you'd be entitled to the SWA.

So your "car grant for asylum seekers" isn't a car grant, and it isn't available to asylum seekers. That's zero out of two, good going there.

case_sensitive

Given the hostile (hear hear) response to xenophobic rants, I doubt we'll hear the line about 'blacks coming into my area and lowering the tone/house prices', but I've heard it from taxi drivers, my cousin's wife (!) , and any number of otherwise reasonable people too.
I lived just off Dorset St for months, an area that used to be a big no-no, but I find that now it's 'ethnically-flooded' it's not only safer, but a better place to live. Loads of food shops open all hours (don't get me started on the price supermarkets *were* charging for basmati rice before all this), internet cafés on every corner, and braiding shops for girls who want it (try getting Peter Mark to do that 5 years ago). I think the quality of these areas has increased with the influx of migrant populations *when they're allowed to work*, and not allowing people with skills to contribute to their communities and the country is not only wasteful, but a great shame.
*end liberal rant*.
Plus, on a personal note, I'm loving the new strain of mixed-race girls running around town :->

Meh wrote:

Funny you should say that, I do live in a "heavily ethnically-flooded area" (just off Parnell Street in Dublin).

If you have any hard evidence of official lying about asylum-seeker benefits (other than "friend of a friend" and "some guy on Stormfront said") then I'd be interested to hear it.

Popperised

Anti-racism is not a belief or even a practice-it is an attitude inclined in those who wish to impose ,just impose onto others ,to silence opposition, to bully, ridicule and smear opponents ,to stifle discussion (sometime violently) on public issues which affect the people, it has little concern with truth, it swaggers with classist contempt for the socially vulnerable - it exists because it enjoys the tacit backing of the powers-that-be who have a vested interest in low-skilled flooding of work and housing markets -in that, and other sense it has much more in common with its true predecessor Fascism .

bonkey

And there was me thinking anti-racism was wrong because it was the opposition of good ol' racism, which is a healthy activity which should be supported rather than opposed.

Live and learn.

jc

Popperised

Popperised wrote:

Anti-racism is not a belief or even a practice-it is an attitude inclined in those who wish to impose ,just impose onto others ,to silence opposition, to bully, ridicule and smear opponents ,to stifle discussion (sometime violently) on public issues which affect the people, it has little concern with truth, it swaggers with classist contempt for the socially vulnerable - it exists because it enjoys the tacit backing of the powers-that-be who have a vested interest in low-skilled flooding of work and housing markets -in that, and other sense it has much more in common with its true predecessor Fascism .

Pardon my vulgarity,but here was me thinking we all sit on the same crapper,breath the same air and basically come to the same end once we die.
Would you advocate that we shouldn't be ?

Anyway,implimenting our guideline policy on dual accounts,the offenders in this thread are being banned on this board.

Zombrex

bonkey wrote:

And there was me thinking anti-racism was wrong because it was the opposition of good ol' racism, which is a healthy activity which should be supported rather than opposed.

Live and learn.

jc

ROFL ... good post man

Popperised Anti-Racism is opposition to racisim. Hence the "anti" bit.

Hobbes

Actually there is no word "anti-racism" the opposite is called "acceptance".

sovtek

Hobbes wrote:

Actually there is no word "anti-racism" the opposite is called "acceptance".

I prefer "respect"
Personally I think "tolerance" sounds very condescending.

stackeye

Hobbes wrote:

Actually there is no word "anti-racism" the opposite is called "acceptance".

Not being a racist is acceptance or tolerance or having "repect", being an anti-racist is being intolerant to people who are intolerant.

But I have noticed a stand of anti-racist that destroys every argument on immigration by tagging everyone a RACIST, even though discussing immigration is not racist and it needs to be discussed or else the likes of far-right parties start making an appearance

stackeye

And back to the topic, the american women seeking asylum from GWB, i think she should be deported to North Korea or Iran, then she will fully understand what oppresssion feels like, she makes a mockery of people who are truly in fear of there lives and are seeking asylum.

toiletduck

stackeye wrote:

And back to the topic, the american women seeking asylum from GWB, i think she should be deported to North Korea or Iran, then she will fully understand what oppresssion feels like, she makes a mockery of people who are truly in fear of there lives and are seeking asylum.

Hear hear!

Hobbes

stackeye wrote:

Not being a racist is acceptance or tolerance or having "repect", being an anti-racist is being intolerant to people who are intolerant.

Pika? o_O

So not being racist is being accepting and tolerant of others and also being accepting of racists? How does that work then?

But I have noticed a stand of anti-racist that destroys every argument on immigration by tagging everyone a RACIST,

No, discussion is generally normal. The person normally gets called racist when they say something outlandish and are totally unable to back up with any facts. Add to that they then continue the argument based not on thier *facts* they posted out but on people who might argue with them.

Fictional example.
Person 1: Sure all those foriengers come here get free BMW's.
Person 2: What are you taking? Can you back that up with facts?
Person 1: You clearly have no clue seeing as you have to resort to calling me a junkie
Person 2: Can you back it up with facts?
Person 1: I'm not talking to you for being rude. Oh yea and they get free champagne too!

Add to that they do crazy things like interchange the words "immigration" and "Asylum" like they mean the same thing.