FG calls for review of Regulators

damien

http://www.rte.ie/business/2005/0419/enterprise.html

Fine Gael's Enterprise, Trade & Employment spokesman has called for an independent review group to examine the effectiveness of all regulatory agencies set up since the 1990s.

In a report for the Oireachtas Enterprise Committee, Phil Hogan TD also says all regulators should be made accountable to the relevant Oireachtas committee, while consideration should be given to bringing the regulators together into a single body.

Deputy Hogan also calls for the amalgamation of the eight employment bodies and consolidation of the employment and companies legislation.
Click here to find out more!

He says regulation is costing businesses €4 billion a year, of which 'at least €600m is unnecessary'. He quotes a Dutch analysis which estimated that a 25% cut in red tape would boost the country's economic output by 1.5%.

vinnyfitz

Strikes me as a bit of a cheap shot by Hogan. He does not say what actually needs to be changed. He is just trying to sound like a pro-business type of guy. Probably designed to underpin FG's current fund raising campaign with the business community rather than herald real policy change.

If he is interested there is a huge amount of work on this subject being done by the OECD of relevance.

Issues here in Ireland seem to include:
Resourcing of regulators;
Adequacy of legal and administrative powers of regulators (and rivalry between civil servants/Ministers and independant regulators);
Culture of regulators - "can do" or "can't do";
Risk of "capture" of the regulator by the industry in question;
Transparency of procedures and access for consumers to regulators;
Merger of regulators - we are certainly getting too many separate ones in the transport sector 1. taxis 2. airports 3. buses........

Can't see how dealing with those would reduce the business burden by 25% though.

damien

I was listening to him on Morning Ireland and he did seem more business orientated than consumer. He mentioned this super-regulator idea which I think was mooted by FF previously.

I've emailed FG to see will they provide me with a copy of this report.

eircomtribunal

Whatever the party-political side of things...Hogan is correct to highlight the failure of the Irish regulatory system.
A single regulator, with smallish expert groups to do the legal stuff (implementing the EU directives) would achieve results, where the separate regulators fail to see the bigger picture.

ComReg's failure is phenomenal and monstrous. It is not responsible to anyone, whatever crap it delivers. Not even the ombudsman can go near it.
The amount of money directly wasted by ComReg, while staggering, is only a tiny part of the damage caused.

P.

Sponge Bob

The Ombudsmans can go near it if requested to but is afraid of the mess it will get into . Nothing in the Act setting up Comreg or its predecessor the ODTR had the effect of removing their activities as a consumer regulator from the oversight of the Ombudsmans office.

eircomtribunal

Sponge Bob wrote:

The Ombudsmans can go near it if requested to but is afraid of the mess it will get into . Nothing in the Act setting up Comreg or its predecessor the ODTR had the effect of removing their activities as a consumer regulator from the oversight of the Ombudsmans office.

I requested and was told ComReg was outside the remit of the ombudsman.
If you don't mind, just ring up the ombudsman's office and see how they react.
18 Lr. Leeson St., Dublin 2.
Tel: +353-1-678-5222
LoCall: 1-890-223030(from outside 01 area)
Fax: +353-1-661-0570
E-mail: ombudsman@ombudsman.irlgov.ie

They even come to Galway each first Tuesday of a month.

ComReg is also not accountable to the DCMNR.
ComReg seems to have the right to shred complaints about it itself.

P.

damien

All I can find on their site is:

Postal and Telecommunications Services (Amendment) Act, 1999

Section 11 of this Act removed Telecom Éireann from the remit of the Ombudsman. This came into effect on 15 July 1999.

The ODTR were formed then I believe ?

vinnyfitz

eircomtribunal wrote:

I requested and was told ComReg was outside the remit of the ombudsman.
If you don't mind, just ring up the ombudsman's office and see how they react.

P.

Rather than all of us ringing them Peter, could I ask did they explicitly confirm to you that they had no jurdistiction over ComReg ?

I must say I'd be very surprised. If they are excluded are the Competition Authority, ODCA and other sectoral re,gulators also exempt? If not what is so special about ComReg? If yes why are they all exempt?

Sponge Bob

damien.m wrote:

The ODTR were formed then I believe ?

ODTR were formed in 1996 and Eircom were privatised in 1999 .

The ODTR as such was not exempted from the existing Provisions of the Ombudsmans Act, only Eircom were.

If the ODTR (now Comreg) maladministers or more likely does not administer at all as is normally the case or issues a press release threatening to administer while knowing it cannot or will not then in those cases the Ombudsman has oversight because the ODTR was never excluded from the explicit oversight mechanism that existed from 1980 Ombudsmans act to the present day.

The ombudsman inherited all the oversight that was carried out over actions by the then dept of 'comms' in 1980 and only lost eircom oversight in 1999, nothing else.

The Ombudsman can show no statutory basis for not having oversight of ODTR/Comreg in their administration of and execution of their statutory responsibility to the Irish public. NOR can Comreg/ODTR show any statutory basis for a claim that such oversight does not exist and has not continually existed since 1980 because its in the 1980 Ombudsman Act .. . not that Comreg/ODTR have harped on about it...in fairness to them.

Comreg are below the Ombudsmans Office in the greater Administrative Food Chain and always will be .

eircomtribunal

vinnyfitz wrote:

Rather than all of us ringing them Peter, could I ask did they explicitly confirm to you that they had no jurdistiction over ComReg ?

The office of the ombudsman explicitly and definitely told me that they had no remit over the Communications regulator. I had been adamant they would/should have a remit after M. saying so on boards earlier, as he is now doing convincingly again.

The DCMNR are also adamant they have no direct remit over the regulator.

There seems to be no chain of command/complaint. I've been made believe that the Oireachtas Communications Committee were the official guards, but they are not equipped to do this job. That is said with no disrespect to the Committee, they are simply not up for this task.

P.

By all means, ring up the ombudsman's office and enquire and let us know. I find the office in general responsive and helpful.

eircomtribunal

Just talked to somebody in the ombudsman's office and they are absolutely sure they have no remit over the Communications Regulator and have no problem outlining there stance to me in writing. -which I will do-

Ombudsman Ms Emily O'Reilly outlined the limited remit of her office in a speech some years ago

In Ireland, the Ombudsman Act, 1980 gives a person the right to make a complaint to the Ombudsman about administrative actions of certain public bodies which may have adversely affected him or her. And while the Ombudsman's jurisdiction in Ireland, quite correctly, does not extend to the courts it is nevertheless incomplete. My jurisdiction does not extend to significant parts of the public service notably the non-commercial state bodies and public voluntary hospitals.

The act setting up the office http://ombudsman.gov.ie/22ba/act1980.PDF
has a list defining the remit:
Departments of State and other persons subject to investigation PART I Department of the Taoiseach
Central Statistics Office
State Paper Office
Department of Finance
Office of the Paymaster General
National Savings Committee
Revenue Commissioners
Commissioners of Public Works
State Laboratory
Ordinance Survey
Commissioner of Valuation and Chief Boundary Surveyor
Stationery Office
Department of the Public Service
Civil Service Commissioners
Local Appointments Commissioners
Department of Justice
Land Registry
Registry of Deeds
Public Record Office
Commissioners of Charitable Donations and Bequests
Department of the Environment
Department of Education
National Museum
National Library
Roinn na Gaeltachta
Department of Agriculture
Land Commission
Department of Fisheries and Forestry
Department of Labour
Department of Industry,
Commerce and Tourism
Companies Registration Office
Patents Office
Registrar of Friendly Societies
Department of Energy
Department of Posts and Telegraphs
Department of Defence
Department of Transport
Department of Foreign Affairs
Department of Social Welfare
Appeals Officers under the Social Welfare Acts
Department of Health

excluded from this list are:

PART II
The reference in Part I of this Schedule to the Revenue Commissioners does not include a reference to the Appeal Commissioners of Income Tax or their staff.
The reference in the said Part I to the Department of Justice does not include a reference to—An Garda Síochána
the Courts, or the court officers mentioned in the Court Officers Acts, 1926 to 1961, or in the Courts (Supplemental Provisions) Act, 1961 An Bord Uchtála
The reference in the said Part I to the Land Commission does not include a reference to—the Judicial Commissioner and Appeals Tribunal Lay Commissioners in the exercise of their statutory reserved functions The reference in the said Part I to the Department of Labour does not include a reference to—the Employment Appeals Tribunal
the Employment Equality Agency
the Labour Court
the Levy Appeals Tribunal
Rights Commissioners
the Secretariat to the Commission on Industrial Relations
the Secretariat to the Employer-Labour Conference
The reference in the said Part I to the Department of Industry, Commerce and Tourism does not include a reference to—the National Prices Commission
An Coimisiúin Dumpála
the Restrictive Practices Commission
the Examiner of Restrictive Practices
the Director of Consumer Affairs
The reference in the said Part I to the Department of Posts and Telegraphs does not include a reference to—
the Post Office Users' Council
the Broadcasting Complaints Commission
The reference in the said Part I to the Department of Defence does not include a reference to—the Defence Forces
the Army Pensions Board

and it also has a second schedule defining the persons not subject to investigation
SECOND SCHEDULE
The Agency for Personal Service Overseas
The Agricultural Credit Corporation, Limited
Arramara Teoranta
The Attorney General
An Bord Altranais
An Bord Fuinnimh Núicléigh
An Bord Iascaigh Mhara
An Bord Pleanála
An Bord Rasaíochta
Bord Fáilte Éireann
Bord Gáis Éireann
Bord na gCapall
Bord na gCon
Bord na Gaeilge
Bord na Móna
Bord na Radharcmhastóirí
British & Irish Steam Packet Company Limited
Ceimicí, Teoranta
Central Bank of Ireland
C.E.R.T., Limited
An Coláiste Náisiúnta Ealaíne is Deartha
An Chomhairle Ealaíon
An Chomhairle Leabharlanna
An Chomhairle Oiliúna (AnCO)
An Chomhairle Oiliúna Talmhaíochta
An Chomhairle Olla
Comhlucht Siúicre Éireann, Teoranta
Coras Beostoic agus Feola
Coras Iompair Éireann
Coras Tráchtála
Cork District Milk Board
The Dental Board
The Director of Public Prosecutions
Dublin District Milk Board
Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies
Electricity Supply Board
The Fire Prevention Council
An Foras Forbartha Teoranta
An Foras Talúntais
Fóir Teoranta
Hospitals Trust Board
The Industrial Credit Company, Limited
Industrial Development Authority
Institiúid Teangeolaíochta Éireann
Institute for Industrial Research and Standards
Iontaobhas Iascaigh Intíre Ioncorportha
Irish Goods Council
Irish Life Assurance Company Limited
Irish National Petroleum Corporation Limited
he Irish National Stud Company, Limited
The Irish Productivity Centre
Irish Shipping Limited
Irish Steel Limited
Kilkenny Design Workshops Limited
Law Reform Commission
Local Government Computer Services Board
Local Government Staff Negotiations Board
Medical Bureau of Road Safety
The Medical Council
Min Fhéir (1959) Teoranta
National Board for Science and Technology
National Building Agency Limited
National Committee on Pilot Schemes to Combat Poverty
National Council for Educational Awards
National Economic and Social Council
National Film Studios of Ireland Limited
National Institute for Higher Education, Dublin
National Institute for Higher Education, Limerick
National Road Safety Association
Nítrigin Éireann Teoranta
Óstlanna Iompair Éireann Teoranta
Pigs and Bacon Commission
Radio Telefís Éireann
Shannon Free Airport Development Company Limited
St. Laurence's Hospital Board
Thomond College of Education, Limerick
Voluntary Health Insurance Board
An tÚdarás Um Ard-Oideachas
Údarás na Gaeltachta
Boards of Conservators established by or under the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959
Bodies set up under the Health (Corporate Bodies) Act, 1961
Bodies set up under the Health Acts
Local Authorities
County Committees of Agriculture
Vocational Education Committees
Old Age Pensions Committees and Sub-Committees
Harbour Authorities scheduled to the Harbours Acts, 1946-1976

Spongebob, how to best pop the question to Ms Emily?

P.

Sponge Bob

Dear Emily.

In 1980 your office was tasked by statute to monitor the administrative actions of (inter alia) the then Dept of Posts and Telegraphs and all its semi state companies .

1.) In 1996 the Dept of Posts and Telecommunications had become the Dept Of Communications . It selectively offloaded some of its responsibilities and powers onto a new body called the ODTR . It appears that the remit of the Ombudsman was split at this point so that the Ombudsman now had both the ODTR and the Dept Of Communications within its remit as and from 1996 (or the date the ODTR came into being whichever is later)

2) The Dept of Communications was still the owner of Eircom. The Ombudsman lost oversight of Eircom activities by statute in 1999 but only of Eircom ...then referred to as Telecom Éireann .

Can the ombudsman show cause why the remit which existed to oversee the activities of the dept of posts and telegraphs in 1980 and thereafter has been modified in any was since save the removal of eircom from said remit . ?

eircomtribunal

Thanks, I'll let you know about the response.
P.

eircomtribunal

Prompt response. I assume to post it here is ok with the ombudsman's office.

P.

Dear Mr Weigl,

The Ombudsman has asked me to reply to your email of 21 April concerning
her possible jurisdiction over the Commission for Communications Regulation
(ComReg).

One of the problems in defining with clarity the Ombudsman's jurisdiction
is the fact that the Ombudsman Act, 1980 and its schedules (which define
the persons subject to investigation - Part I of First Schedule - and those
not subject to her jurisdiction - Part II of the First Schedule and the
Second Schedule) has not been amended to reflect the many changes which
have taken place in the Irish public service over the last 25 years. An
Ombudsman Amendment Bill has been long promised and we understand that its
publication is now due in 2006. It is hoped that this legislation will
include a revision and consolidation of the schedules.

The Ombudsman Act empowers the Ombudsman to examine the administrative
actions of certain persons, including Departments of State. The Department
of Posts and Telegraphs is one of these and, and you correctly point out,
its successor is the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural
Resources. Telecom Eireann (and the regulatory function exercised by the
Department) was subject to the Ombudsman's jurisdiction from 1984 to 1999.
At no stage did the Ombudsman exercise jurisdiction in respect of the
Office of the Director of Telecommunications Regulation.

With effect from 15 July 1999, when Section 10 of the Postal and
Telecommunications Services (Amendment) Act, 1999 was brought into effect,
Telecom Eireann became a body not subject to investigation and effectively
listed in the Second Schedule. The Ombudsman cannot investigate actions
taken by or on behalf of a person specified in the Second Schedule (Section
4(4)) nor can she investigate actions of a person in the First Schedule
taken in respect of persons in the Second Schedule (Section 1(3)). This
means that the actions of the Department in relation to Telecom are not
within her jurisdiction. Thus, if one maintains that ComReg is acting on
behalf of the Department, ComReg is also definitively outside the
Ombudsman's jurisdiction. As an independent statutory body, ComReg itself
is not subject to the Ombudsman's jurisdiction.

I regret, therefore, that the Ombudsman cannot investigate your complaint
about ComReg. I presume you have already taken the matter up with ComReg
itself - the Commission's customer charter appears to suggest that it has a
complaints procedure. You might also wish to pursue the matter with the
Department itself.


I am sorry that I could not have been of more assistance to you; if you
would like to discuss the matter with me, however, please call.

vinnyfitz

Thanks for that Peter.
Very informative.

Another tangible issue that Ireland Offline could ask both DCMNR and opposition spokepeople to address.

Sponge Bob

eircomtribunal wrote:

One of the problems in defining with clarity the Ombudsman's jurisdiction
is the fact that the Ombudsman Act, 1980 and its schedules (which define
the persons subject to investigation - Part I of First Schedule - and those
not subject to her jurisdiction - Part II of the First Schedule and the
Second Schedule) has not been amended to reflect the many changes which
have taken place in the Irish public service over the last 25 years. An
Ombudsman Amendment Bill has been long promised and we understand that its
publication is now due in 2006. It is hoped that this legislation will
include a revision and consolidation of the schedules.

The Ombudsman Act empowers the Ombudsman to examine the administrative
actions of certain persons, including Departments of State. The Department
of Posts and Telegraphs is one of these and, and you correctly point out,
its successor is the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural
Resources. Telecom Eireann (and the regulatory function exercised by the
Department) was subject to the Ombudsman's jurisdiction from 1984 to 1999.

As the ODTR inherited certain responsibilities of the Dept of Comms on foot of statute in 1996 AND as there was no specific exclusion of the Ombudsmans oversight fiunction in that 1996 act then the oversight transferred with the creation of the ODTR. No new responsibilities were created for the ODTR beyond those that were witin the remit of the Dept of Posts and Telegraphs 1980 -1996 . The later Act in 2002 creating Comreg out of the ODTR did not remove the oversight either I note .

Eircom was 'created' by a 1999 act , permitting the people to sell their own assets to the people , and the Ombudsmans oversight was explicitly removed in that 1999 Act. Yet Eircom in pre act 1999 was no less an inheritor of the Dept of P&T than the ODTR 3 years earlier. Had it been the intent of the Dáil to explicitly remove oversight by the Ombudsman of the ODTR then a specific clause legislating to that effect would have been inserted into either the 1996 act or the 2002 act .

The creation of a new body out of an existing department cannot have the effect , on its own, of removing proper oversight by the Ombudsmans office otherwise it would have been sufficient for the Dept Of Posts and Telegraphs to sell Eircom, as they did in 1999 , in order to remove that oversight. It clearly was not sufficient to sell it so the oversight was removed in statute law .

The Ombudsman has a clear line of inherited responsibility going back to that schedule in the 1980 act (mutatis mutandis although it may be ) unless the legislature decides otherwise by enacting a statute amending the schedules . The Ombudsman cannot legally prove otherwise and the assertation in that email has no demonstrable basis in the law of the land. If it did the Ombudsman could refer you to that law which of course does not exist and I noted that the Ombudsman has had to work 'around' the 1980 act for years.

By the logic of that email , the government has removed the ENTIRE HOSPITAL SECTOR from Ombudsman oversight by simply abolishing the Health Boards and creating the HSE in their place. That would be ridiculous (albeit not beyond the bounds of credulity ) so ask the Ombudsman if they have responsibility for the HSE and HOW DID THEY GET IT seeing as it was not included into the act creating the HSE because it need not be ?

Equally the Ombudsman cannot cherry pick sectors or entities within its remit, we have a Dáil to do that for us