Rule 42

abakan

its just been announced that rule 42 has just been carried.

GerardKeating

abakan wrote:

its just been announced that rule 42 has just been carried.

I gather the vote was 227 to 97 in favour of the motion to allow central council to permit soccer et al for 3 years...

SeanW

Good. Let me extend to the GAA a warm welcome to the 21st century.

Flukey

Well actually it wasn't carried, rule 42 was changed; it was the motion to change it that was carried. Anyway, let's not get pedantic. As a very big GAA supporter, I can say it is a good thing.

River Allow

It's a sad day for the GAA :mad: :mad:

cHilliSheep

When Landstown Road is being redeveloped Croke Park is an option thats it. After its finished it's ammended.

4Xcut

another step on the road to the destruction of irish culture. To those who passed it you don't deserve to even look at our flag. To those who opposed ruining our sport's home, hard look. A sad, sad day. i for one am ashamed of modern ireland.

kaimera

4Xcut ::

I dunno tbqfh.

There are enough threads on the 'opening of croke park' but still the same **** is pulled up.

I really dont know how you can say

4Xcut wrote:

To those who passed it you don't deserve to even look at our flag.

to those who oppsed it >> get into the god damn 21st century. bigotry has no place tbh.

Sangre

Because I don't play GAA does that mean I'm not Irish?

sprinkles

River Allow wrote:

It's a sad day for the GAA :mad: :mad:

But a great day for Ireland!

Do you honestly believe that our national identity will be lost if 80,000 Irish supports stand up to sing the national anthem before an Ireland international game in the country's most spectacular stadium. What are you smoking?

I would like to thank all of those in the GAA who aren't living in the past.

kmart6

4Xcut wrote:

another step on the road to the destruction of irish culture. To those who passed it you don't deserve to even look at our flag. To those who opposed ruining our sport's home, hard look. A sad, sad day. i for one am ashamed of modern ireland.

It's people like you that are the problem with the G.A.A. What is wrong with Croke Park been opened up and giving the other sports the OPTION to use it. Especially when how many millions came from the goverment to fund the stadium. Also who are you to say that people dont deserve to look at their national flag,what makes them less Irish than you just because they got with the times???

Stabshauptmann

sprinkles wrote:

But a great day for Ireland!

Do you honestly believe that our national identity will be lost if 80,000 Irish supports stand up to sing the national anthem before an Ireland international game in the country's most spectacular stadium. What are you smoking?

I would like to thank all of those in the GAA who aren't living in the past.

The IRFU arent overly fond of said anthem and the FAI only represents players from 26 counties.

From an entirely economic sense this doesnt benifit the GAA at all. The GAA is in more need of increasing and maintaining market share not funds.
However it could be argued that being seen as sectarian and bitter would damage this goal. I wasnt sure tbh which way I would have voted had I a vote.

As a side note a full Croke park for an international game is worth €4m+ to the economy as a whole according to george lee. Thats good for Ireland.

sprinkles

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

The IRFU arent overly fond of said anthem and the FAI only represents players from 26 counties.

What is the said anthem?

The Irfu play both the national Anthem and Irelands call at home games and the FAI play the national anthem. How does this conflict with our national identity?

At the end of the day its a boost to the economy and it provides an arena for Irish people to go and support their national team and show their pride in their country. If in doing this we loose some of our national identity then I think it deserves to be lost.

IMO it's events like these (soccer/Rugby/GAA) that bring the country together, more so when its the national team, that includes the Aussie rules games.

D

No they now can rent the place out while Landsdowne is being renovated I heard the mention of €2millions.

Stabshauptmann

sprinkles wrote:

What is the said anthem?

The Irfu play both the national Anthem and Irelands call at home games and the FAI play the national anthem. How does this conflict with our national identity?

At the end of the day its a boost to the economy and it provides an arena for Irish people to go and support their national team and show their pride in their country. If in doing this we loose some of our national identity then I think it deserves to be lost.

IMO it's events like these (soccer/Rugby/GAA) that bring the country together, more so when its the national team, that includes the Aussie rules games.

But they dont play it at away games, hence they're not very fond of it.
A 26 county team is a direct attack on a national image that incapsulates 32 counties.

Yes its great to see ppl proud to be Irish and support the teams but I dont think the growth of these teams should be encouraged to the detriment of our own games.

You say supporting soccor shows our national identity, brings us together, but if we loose our identity in doing so, your point about supporting the teams is illogical.

D, what are you talking about?

sprinkles

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

But they dont play it at away games, hence they're not very fond of it.
A 26 county team is a direct attack on a national image that incapsulates 32 counties.

Yes its great to see ppl proud to be Irish and support the teams but I dont think the growth of these teams should be encouraged to the detriment of our own games.

You say supporting soccor shows our national identity, brings us together, but if we loose our identity in doing so, your point about supporting the teams is illogical.

D, what are you talking about?

But showing our support form Irish men and Women playing sport for inreland in croke park is not to the detriment of our own games. Can you tell me in what way would this or could this possibly harm Hurling or football or any other sport for that matter. The GAA are only to benifit from this, the same way they'll benifit from Bono and co this summer, thus proving benificial for the countries national sports. IMO

egan007

River Allow wrote:

It's a sad day for the GAA :mad: :mad:

This is just a typical GAA dinopinion - just a statement with no logic

Can you explain why this is a sad day for the GAA when a 75% majority voted to change the rule?

egan007

4Xcut wrote:

another step on the road to the destruction of irish culture. To those who passed it you don't deserve to even look at our flag. To those who opposed ruining our sport's home, hard look. A sad, sad day. i for one am ashamed of modern ireland.

In fact it's people like you that destroy irish cluture.

This state was founded on accepting you No matter what your creed is.
It was fought for by men and women who were sick of grouping people as A and B.

The gaelic League was founded to develop Irish Culture but was never intended to exclude anyone that is not Irish. Irish culture is NOT EXCLUSIVE to Irish people.

Get over yoursellf asshol3. I for one Love Ireland I love it passionately - I love seeing everyone come here and take part As far as im concerned everyone is welcome to participate. I resent you telling me that i don't deserve to look at our flag while is you that is spitting on it by not being aware of your states founding members wishes. I suggest you become more informed and then take a long look at your biggotted, single minded, Sectarian, Rasist statement.

sprinkles

egan007 wrote:

In fact it's people like you that destroy irish cluture.

This state was founded on accepting you No matter what your creed is.
It was fought for by men and women who were sick of grouping people as A and B.

The gaelic League was founded to develop Irish Culture but was never intended to exclude anyone that is not Irish. Irish culture is NOT EXCLUSIVE to Irish people.

Get over yoursellf asshol3. I for one Love Ireland I love it passionately - I love seeing everyone come here and take part As far as im concerned everyone is welcome to participate. I resent you telling me that i don't deserve to look at our flag while is you that is spitting on it by not being aware of your states founding members wishes. I suggest you become more informed and then take a long look at your biggotted, single minded, Sectarian, Rasist statement.

Bravo....... * sprinkles applaudes the clarity of the above statement*

Panda

i've played hurling all my life and always liked the gaa,
as backward as they are.

Hopefully the money that this will bring to the stadium will filter down to club level where its needed.

on a side note whats the current crowd capacity of croke pk.? 70000?
and does anyone know the average ticket price for a soccer/rugby international? €30?
for the likes of the ireland internationals where you can be guaranteed a capacity crowd, ticket sales alone will get you upwards of 2 million.

Flukey

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

I dont think the growth of these teams should be encouraged to the detriment of our own games.

You are right, and opening Croke Park this way will not do any of that at all, so there is no problem, is there?

Listening to this debate it is almost as if soccer and rugby are new sports that are suddenly going to arrive here and that there will be no more GAA matches when they do. Soccer and Rugby have been around for ages. They are nothing new. In the past 10 years they have grown a lot, but in the same period, so has the GAA. Why do you think they had to build a bigger stadium? Gaelic games has nothing to fear from soccer and rugby. They have been co-existing for years. Last weekend's decision changes nothing. Next Sunday there will be a big crowd in Croke Park, myself included, and that is the way things will continue. I bet a lot of the people here saying it should not be opened, won't be in Croke Park next Sunday, don't know who is playing and didn't even know there will be matches on.:rolleyes:

Stabshauptmann

I thought I already made this point but for the two posters who need to see it again:

The GAA doesnt really need money, if it had extra money it could spend it but it doesnt really need it. What it does need is a share in the sports events market. Demand is finite.

By helping other sports to grow the GAA limits its own growth potential.

But if it refused to open croker it would sour relations between them and other sports and since they dont currently have a very large market share, if ppl had to choose between the GAA and all other sports the GAA would lose. This ground has been covered before...

Camogie Playa

Should never have been open full stop. Dont know why the excuse of needing money was used because we dont need the money. If soccer and rugby get too comfortable in Croke Park, they will put pressure on the GAA to open it full time and then local GAA clubs could be threatened to open their fields to soccer and rugby. I think its cause a mutiny in the GAA especially at local level.
So what is the FAI and IRFU weren't capable of plaaning and economising and saving for their own stadium. Now they are envious of the GAA progress and want in.
Where they asking for Croke Park 8 or 10 years ago when Croke Park was just as bad as Lannsdowne, maybe even worse??
And the sickening thing is that English players who had no respect in Lansdowne last year, whos to say that that they wont do that in coming years, what with the GAA having passed a rule that County Boards are fined if a player doesnt stand in respect to the national anthem or flag??This should definitly apply to foreign teams(specially english), cos id say its easier for irish players to stand respectfully to flag and anthem, cant imagine english rugby players doing it!!! (I know im a nationalist at heart)!!

Phew.. im tired after that rant!!

jonny68

SeanW wrote:

Good. Let me extend to the GAA a warm welcome to the 21st century.

Hear Hear.......

Flukey

In the last 15 - 20 years, both soccer and rugby have grown immensely and received a number of significant boosts, like the soccer team's qualification to the World Cup and Rugby turning professional resulting in higher profile provincial teams and better players to help the national team. During that period, far from being damaged by all this, the GAA has outdone both of them and gone through a huge boost themselves. Jack Charlton once said something to the effect that he'd like to oust that game with sticks and make soccer the most popular game in the country. He did incredible things with the Irish soccer team alright, but it could never get better than number 3 in the list of most popular sports in Ireland.

If you really believe that opening Croke Park to be used by other sports is going to hinder the growth and popularity of Gaelic Games, then you really don't understand much about the GAA and its games and the part it has within Ireland. The two biggest days in the Irish sporting calendar are the Hurling and Football Final days, and nothing else even comes close. That isn't going to change, except to get even stronger. If there was a soccer match in Croke Park on a Wednesday night and a Rugby match on Saturday, you'd still get a huge crowd coming in on Sunday to see the Hurling and Football matches played on that day. What happened on Wednesday and Saturday, whether it was in Lansdowne Road, Croke Park or anywhere, won't change that. You'll have a lot of people who will be there on all 3 occasions, as happens as things stand, so there will be no difference.

Seaneh

Camogie Playa wrote:

If soccer and rugby get too comfortable in Croke Park, they will put pressure on the GAA to open it full time and then local GAA clubs could be threatened to open their fields to soccer and rugby. I think its cause a mutiny in the GAA especially at local level.



So what is the FAI and IRFU weren't capable of plaaning and economising and saving for their own stadium. Now they are envious of the GAA progress and want in.
!

The GAA didn't "save for thier own stadium" the government, with the tax money of both Irish citizens and forgien nationals living in this country paid the majority of bill.

Also I don't think the local clubs will have to worry too much about soccer and rugby on thier pitches, I play Rugby and soccer and untill about 2 years played Football aswell and all I can say is that most "local" GAA pitches are a disgrace, 4 inch dips between goals, divits like someone wa splaying golf in midfeild and hillocks on the wings, I've had more ankle and knee injuries playing football than soccer and rugby combimed.
Most soccer clubs have a pitch (or two) and even if they dont thier local leagues own a few pitches that are used by all, EVERY rugby club owns a pitch, and both the soccer and rugby clubs look after hier feilds better.


The best GAA pitch in the midlands and about as good as a bad rugby pitch.

Imposter

Seaneh wrote:

The GAA didn't "save for thier own stadium" the government, with the tax money of both Irish citizens and forgien nationals living in this country paid the majority of bill.

I'm sick of this silly argument being trotted out every time. Have you got figures to show this? Or a link to the thread that was here a while back that showed the figures? Do you realise that most of any money that the GAA got came from lotto funds and not taxpayers money? If you've a problem with that then stop doing the lotto.

Similarly do you realise that all sporting associations get money from the government (taxpayer and lottto money) and all can apply for funding for major infrastructure projects? As it stands if the current proposals for Lansdowne go ahead, far more percentage wise, and about the same in actual money will be paid out by the government (through lotto and taxpayers monies) for the redevelopment. The total contribution by 2 professional sporting organisations will be laughable in comparision to the amount the GAA has invested in Croker (not to mention other stadia around the country).

cHilliSheep

Seaneh wrote:

The GAA didn't "save for thier own stadium" the government, with the tax money of both Irish citizens and forgien nationals living in this country paid the majority of bill.

Also I don't think the local clubs will have to worry too much about soccer and rugby on thier pitches, I play Rugby and soccer and untill about 2 years played Football aswell and all I can say is that most "local" GAA pitches are a disgrace, 4 inch dips between goals, divits like someone wa splaying golf in midfeild and hillocks on the wings, I've had more ankle and knee injuries playing football than soccer and rugby combimed.
Most soccer clubs have a pitch (or two) and even if they dont thier local leagues own a few pitches that are used by all, EVERY rugby club owns a pitch, and both the soccer and rugby clubs look after hier feilds better.


The best GAA pitch in the midlands and about as good as a bad rugby pitch.

Certainly not the case here my good man, your probably in an area dominated by soccer, here in west waterford where both football and hurling are apparently crap, the pitches are in great condition.

Camogie Playa

Seaneh wrote:

The GAA didn't "save for thier own stadium" the government, with the tax money of both Irish citizens and forgien nationals living in this country paid the majority of bill.

Also I don't think the local clubs will have to worry too much about soccer and rugby on thier pitches, I play Rugby and soccer and untill about 2 years played Football aswell and all I can say is that most "local" GAA pitches are a disgrace, 4 inch dips between goals, divits like someone wa splaying golf in midfeild and hillocks on the wings, I've had more ankle and knee injuries playing football than soccer and rugby combimed.
Most soccer clubs have a pitch (or two) and even if they dont thier local leagues own a few pitches that are used by all, EVERY rugby club owns a pitch, and both the soccer and rugby clubs look after hier feilds better.


The best GAA pitch in the midlands and about as good as a bad rugby pitch.

This money was got in the form of lotto grants.Have you not seen teh ads on the telly, that lotto money also supports services for babys and children too,and im sure plenty of soccer and rugby pitches have got these grants too!Of course the GAA saved why do you think they did the renovating by degrees, leaving a few years between the jobs.?

It is easy to realise you live in an area dominated by soccer and rugby.I think you are exagerating about your GAA pitch?! What you say about local GAA pitches is totally untrue. Our pitch is immaculate, no divots or holes and has a deadly playing surface. They have spent large amounts of money on drainage and spiking and sanding to keep it in top form for the players!

Flukey

The GAA got money from the government, but it was only a small part of the overall cost and far from being the majority. Most of it was paid for by the GAA and its members. Also, the government would have recouped huge amounts in taxes and other things through the building of the stadium. Over the years, with the work it has put into this country in a myriad of different ways, the GAA has made massive contributions to the country and the government. Without the social impact that the GAA has and the services it has provided for many people, all done on a voluntary basis, this country would be a very different place and there is no way the governments would have been able to provide the outlets and social services that the GAA does. Each year the GAA contributes millions in tax, directly and indirectly and they also save the government millions by providing services and facilities for all sorts of people, at no cost to the government. The GAA is the largest amateur sporting organisation in the world and its contribution to this country is incalcuable.

One other thing is that one of the reasons the GAA got money from the government is simply that they went and asked for it. If the FAI had bothered to get up and put some plans together to go and build a stadium, the government would have assisted them too. That they didn't, is not the GAA's fault. OK, there was the Eircom Park debacle, but then the FAI should have had their own stadium long, long ago. They spent more energy putting the bums of executives on seats than getting something together for their fans to be able to have seats to put their bums on.

Rule 42 - which I agree should have been changed - has been a handy diversion for the FAI away from the real issue, which is why they don't have their own stadium. If they did, most people in this country would never have even heard of Rule 42. The issue has always been why the FAI does not have their own stadium. The GAA have one, the IRFU have one, but the FAI don't! They should have, long ago. That question still remains unanswered.

Blackjack

What Flukey said.
To confirm, a total of 110 Million of the costs to build Croke Park have come from a combination of Lottery Funds and Exchequer Funding.

90.5 Million from the Lottery, and 19.5 from the Exchequer, which was largely to allow for the stadium to be ready to host the Special Olympics.

Total cost to redevelop was 265 Million, meaning that the 58.5% of the cost has been borne entirely by the GAA.
A total of 7.35% from the exchequer funding, and the remaining 34.15% from Lottery funding. This was received between 1994 and 2004. Source here.

Compare this to Landsdown road:
Wholly owned by the IRFU.

Redevelopment to cost (estimated):
292 Million
Funding:
Goverment - 191 Million
IRFU - 68 Million
FAI - 33 Million

So, the Stadium will in total cost more, receive more public funds than Croke Park, and less combined funding by the 2 organisations who will use it than the GAA contributed to Croke Park.

Can we now give it a rest about public funds and Croke Park?

River Allow

Ya and did anybody hear the fact that the government actually recouped more through taxes from the building of Croke Park than they actually put into it! This was through PAYE of the people working on the development, VAT on inputs and raw materials, planning fees etc.. So the GAA actually made money from the building of the stadium. That really throws your statement out the window, doesn't it Seanah!?!?

Flukey

Those two posts confirm exactly what I said. The GAA paid for much of the development itself and much of the grants that they got were recouped in taxes. Then there was the other element in my post, the contribution that the GAA has made to Irish society which is incalcuable. If the government had to run all the clubs and sports and other things the GAA has over the years, the cost would have been enormous. That is a massive contribution that the GAA makes, much of it voluntarily. Without the GAA, as indeed the other similar organisations, there would be a lot more kids running riot on our streets. The GAA are the largest of those organisations and they have a much wider range of activities than any other organisation, like sports, music, dancing etc.