Pay-as-you-drive insurance

D'Peoples Voice

Can you ever see this being implemented in the Republic of Ireland?

http://www.norwichunion.com/pay-as-you-drive/index.htm
Nine in ten people say they would prefer their motor insurance to reflect the usage of their car and the type of journeys they make - with the majority favouring pay "as you go" systems similar to those offered by gas and electricity suppliers.*

Why is it a good idea?
As stated by Robert Ledger, programme director for Norwich Union, "Customers choosing "Pay As You Drive"™ insurance will benefit from individual premiums based on how often, when and where they actually used their cars. Motorists would receive a fairer deal as this initiative provides them with the opportunity to really be in the driving seat when it comes to controlling their premiums."

What is the scheme?
Norwich Union will be able to collect real-time vehicle data using a 'black box(CPS tracking)' device installed in your vehicle. This will allow monthly insurance payments to be calculated based on how often, when and where you use your vehicle.

Norwich Union believe this represents a major breakthrough in the calculation of fairer motor insurance premiums and ultimately gives you greater control, flexibility and choice.

The black box device measures vehicle usage and sends data directly to Norwich Union using similar technology to that used by mobile phones. You could be billed monthly and the technology will also allow us to offer you associated in-car services, such as emergency assistance and real-time route planning.

The initial response to our announcement of "Pay As You Drive"™ insurance has been overwhelming. We're set to receive even more than the required number of volunteers.

prospect

Knowing my luck, my premium would increase!!!!! :eek:

Eoin

This will allow monthly insurance payments to be calculated based on how often, when and where you use your vehicle.

Would probably go for it, but would want more info about the part "where you use your car". I do about 6K miles a year, so would probably work out for me.

jhegarty

eoin_s wrote:

Would probably go for it, but would want more info about the part "where you use your car". I do about 6K miles a year, so would probably work out for me.

do you really think anyones premiun would go down ?

mike65

One of those ideas that sounds fine on paper. I wonder how many fancy a black box tracking there movements? Not that I have anything to hide officer...! I imagine rates would'nt drop they'd just be loaded on high milage drivers and those who work late so drive at night etc...

Mike.

CrowdedHouse

Agree with Mike even though I only do about 5K personal miles a year and what the position with fire/theft etc while not driving

Capt'n Midnight

I heard something about this on the radio and the impression I got was that the savings would be marginal. (links state 25% but this is with low mileage drives actively trying to reduce premiums)

What % of existing premiums are based on mileage ?
In the proposal box you on many policies you are asked for annual mileage - how much has this saved anyone here ??

One way this GPS technology is used is to track so you pay less if you use motorways and more if you drive at night 11pm-6am, Technically in the future they might possible link it into the met office weather reports and load you for driving in the rain or whatever.

The point to get across is that your would still pay a basic premium and then additionally depending on the mileage, but the first 100 miles per month are free :rolleyes:

linkie - http://www.norwichunion.com/pay-as-you-drive/index.htm
http://www.serconline.org/payd/background.html
http://www.investeastofengland.com/news.asp?id=1116&s=general

The Pay As You Drive’™ For Young Drivers product works on a personalised tariff per mile for each customer which adjusts according to the time of day the car is driven. The first 100 off peak miles travelled each month are free

D'Peoples Voice

I can't remember which state in the US has a system that shares the same principle as this. I think it's New York State or New Yersey state not sure, anyway, you pay for your insurance in the price of petrol.
The more you drive, the more petrol you need, and therefore the more insurance you pay.
The problem with this is that it doesn't dscriminate across the different areas, which is a bad thing. We need discrimination so that some of us, namely me, can get cheaper premiums at the expense of others

As for a black box tracking, I wouldn't give a damn, it's not as if someone is so bored to be interested in how many trips I make to work or to Superquinn or the video store etc. Might even work to my advantage when the car is stolen!

Zaph0d

Pay-as-you-drive insurance is inevitable and won't need legislation. The reasoning is:

Step 1:
Insurance companies that can assess risk more accurately than their competitors can increase profits by attracting lower risk customers with low prices and discouraging higher risk customers who migrate to the competitors or pay increased premiums. Result: companies start to offer pay-as-you-drive insurance.

Step 2:
Many customers take up offer (probably with mobile-phone-style subsidised trackers) to save money

Step 3:
Those remaining who refuse to use a tracker are categorised as high-risk and pay increased insurance.

Step 4:
Time-rich, cash-poor people think twice embarking on lengthy frivolous journeys.

I'd give it 3 years max before nearly everyone is tracked.

blastman

Yeah, how long before the tracker is used to measure your speed? Will it be like that trial they gave some young drivers where their speed was constantly monitored to ensure they didn't break the speed limit? Nothing to hide, my ar$e....

Eoin

I know, sounds very big brother - but if they just wanted to measure the annual mileage, then maybe something like a garages report yearly showing the updated mileage on the car would suffice?

Zaph0d

from the first post:

[premium is based on...] how often, when and where you use your vehicle

This a more accurate measure of risk than just mileage. if they could tell whether you were drunk, it would be better still.

Lord Nikon

I do about 20k a year, and it my own car, it's not used for business in any way. and i don't deliver curries.

528i

Can't work, you're gonna have people [like me] strapping this 'black-box' to their grannys fiesta which gets around 300miles per year [if its lucky] and never goes above 20mph..

Its open to abuse, although an upsurge in grannies with eleventy-billion bhp sports-cars could raise afew eyebrows..

D'Peoples Voice

eoin_s wrote:

I know, sounds very big brother - but if they just wanted to measure the annual mileage, then maybe something like a garages report yearly showing the updated mileage on the car would suffice?

The problem with a garages report is that it doesn't say where you have been driving!
People travelling in the cities or on any of the roads outlined as dangerous on this map http://www.nra.ie/News/DownloadableDocumentation/d1735.PDF should be charged more because they are at a greater risk.

I know that's probably unfair to individuals who HAVE to use those roads outlined as dangerous on this map, but lets face it, the Irish or at least people from Dublin have said it's better for the Government to spend half a billion buying out the M50 toll bridge than making roads around the countryside safer. Saving time in traffic is more important than saving people's lives to us here in Dublin.

gerrydublin

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

The problem with a garages report is that it doesn't say where you have been driving!

I think it's just as important to charge people with bigger engines higher premiums. I know there is an old argument that says the bigger the car, the less injuries to the occupants of that vehicle in a crash, but if the car wasn't so bloody powerful it may not have been travelling that fast in the first place to be involved in a crash.

On a more serious note, I do believe there should be higher premiums for people sporting baseball caps and listening to Scooter & Eminem putting neon lights, skirts, alloys, blacked out windows, big f-off exhaust pipes, and No Fear stickers on a Daewoo Matiz. Not because they represent a higher risk but just because they look dumb.And the same goes for Ford Fiesta's, and Fiat Uno's and Suzuki Alto's.
Are there any laws against impersonation? :mad:

vector

Whoever wants this has something to gain from it.

gerrydublin

vector wrote:

Whoever wants this has something to gain from it.

I understand your paranoia, in Ireland we hate change, because we think everyone is out to screw us over once we heard the word "change" or "innovation".
But this is one case where it may favour the honest person at the expense of the dishonest.
How many people lie:

about their annual mileage in their application forms?

about where they live (get insured down the country but really reside and drive in Dublin)

about using their car only for personal reasons and not business

about where they leave their car at night

about speeding (it would be relatively easy to calculate the distance between two places, using the recorded time it took you to go from one place to another & calculate your average speed)

Also think about crime:

think how difficult it would be for people likle joyriders to go out on hit-and-run trips and not get caught and charged (gardai could narrow down all the cars in the vicinity of the accident)

think of how easy it would be to track down a stolen car used in a bank robbery

The only people to suffer would be those with something to hide but that's just my opinion for what it's worth!

vector

gerrydublin
>The only people to suffer would be those with something to hide

should everyone use postcards, because those who use letters have something to hide?

point is it is bad to give the authorities too much power or information, the thin end of the wedge

pollyantic

No point arguing if the should or shouldnt put a box in your car that can track you, because you alldo it already.
If the cops want they can trace where you are, were etc from your mobile phone down to a few meters.

So if you've something to hide you beter leave your mobile at home too.

For what its worth i would prefer 'Pay as you use' type insurance to what i have already.

Regarding fire and theft insurance, i would think it would be much the same. More increased risk if you are parked all day in a high risk area etc. and a standard charge for when its parked at home.

D'Peoples Voice

October 2006

Norwich Union is to go ahead with plans to introduce insurance premiums based on a pay-as-you-drive basis.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/02102006/379/pay-premiums-ahead-3.html

Motor insurance could be about to get cheaper, particularly for younger drivers, as a new pay-as-you-drive (PAYD) scheme goes mainstream. With motor insurance costs rising steeply, sometimes up by as much as 40% for younger people, this could be just want millions of drivers are looking for.

http://www.moneyextra.com/features/feature-payasyoudrive-motor-023927.html

mike65

Outrageous bumping!

Yep I saw that in the Sunday Times.

Mike.

seamus

Certainly interesting. Much like the introduction of PAYG phones, I'd say the rest of Europe's insurers are watching like hawks and will jump on the bandwagon if it takes off.

What would definitely make it great for very young (< 20) drivers would be a realtime usage monitor. So they log onto a site, see what they've racked up so far, and if they can't afford to drive, they don't.

I don't know if our system would allow this to function adequately. The insurer would still have to issue a disc - would they only issue a new disc when last month's bill was paid?

nialler

Could be interesting, but if they're collecting gps data they're also monitoring distance & speed, will they punish the serial limit breakers, the boy racers with higher premiums?

Then again there's no accounting for the mad old blue rinse ladies that cruise around a junction not even looking and I end up kissing the front window.

Akrasia

they should put road tax and insurance onto the cost of petrol and get rid of compulsary insurance (and road tolls) altogether (people could still buy fire and theft cover or fully comprehensive if they want)
Insurance on the price of petrol would mean:
No more uninsured drivers
If you drive like a lunatic you pay more because you burn more petrol
If you drive a more fuel efficient car you are rewarded
the more you drive, the more insurance you pay.
If you don't drive your car for a period of time, you're not wasting your insurance policy (there is an incentive to leave the car at home and take the bus)
People can share each others cars without having to worry about transferring insurance.

Kimbot

This sounds like a good idea!!

I drive from tallaght to clondalkin twice a week!! Thats all my car is used for so over a year if the off-peak thing off your first 100 miles in a month goes a head then I wouldn't pay for insurance ever!!

prospect

jonny24ie wrote:

This sounds like a good idea!!

I drive from tallaght to clondalkin twice a week!! Thats all my car is used for so over a year if the off-peak thing off your first 100 miles in a month goes a head then I wouldn't pay for insurance ever!!

Would you not consider cycling?

Kimbot

prospect wrote:

Would you not consider cycling?

Nah, I only really got the car so I see my son on the weekends and am able to bring him places!

prospect

jonny24ie wrote:

Nah, I only really got the car so I see my son on the weekends and am able to bring him places!

Makes sense.