The Speed Guns - how does it all work

Samba

Well,

Much to my horror I was driving up towards the Leopardstown racecours around 20 minutes ago when I look into the distance only to see to Gardai, upon further inspection I realise one of them has a speed gun! :eek:

I look down at my speedometer to see I am doing around 36 mph in a 50kmph zone. doh.

So my question is, if i was deemed to be speeding, would I have been notified there and then or do they have a camera to note my registration?

If they do have a camer, considering it is at night, would they not need a camera with a flash to catch my reg?

I suppose in short I am asking in your honest opinion, did I get away with it?

Thanks for any replies,

Samba (only 8 months on the road)

Alfasudcrazy

Samba wrote:

I suppose in short I am asking in your honest opinion, did I get away with it?

YES - an offending driver has to be stopped and given a ticket. If this did not happen stop worrying.
Its different of course when its a Gatso van or speed camera

BrianD3

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

YES - an offending driver has to be stopped and given a ticket. If this did not happen stop worrying.
Its different of course when its a Gatso van or speed camera

Good. I'm glad that a reputable source has now confirmed what I've been saying for years re: the procedure for ticketing speeding motorists. There have been a lot of myths and rumours doing the rounds about this.

BrianD3

Samba

Thanks for the reply Alfasudcrazy very very very very apreciated.


i was shocked to see them out where they were and at that time(the car neatly tucked behind a wall, just before the entrance to Westwood driving towards the Indus. est. be wary!)

Eoin

BrianD3 wrote:

Good. I'm glad that a reputable source has now confirmed what I've been saying for years re: the procedure for ticketing speeding motorists. There have been a lot of myths and rumours doing the rounds about this.
BrianD3

One of those being that there is a hand held speed camera out there (I think the original thread said that it was connected to a 4x4 type vehicle) that can take a picture and does not require the driver to be pulled over on the spot - can anyone confirm this?

Seth Brundle

There are some manned checks that take pictures of the 'crime' and are sent to you without the need to stop you on the road. However [according to a garda friend] these are in use in the Louth area generally.

BrianD3

eoin_s wrote:

One of those being that there is a hand held speed camera out there (I think the original thread said that it was connected to a 4x4 type vehicle) that can take a picture and does not require the driver to be pulled over on the spot - can anyone confirm this?

I believe some manned, laser guns do have a camera attached. I saw a pic of one of these on the old speedtraps.nu website. It was like the normal laser device with an extra "yoke" mounted on top of the gun. I don't know if they are in some way linked to a garda vehicle or if this is the same device as shown on a recent road safety ad (it's the one with Everybody's Got to Learn Sometime by the Corgis playing in the background)

Anyway, these devices are rarely used in Ireland. I have never seen one in use despite keeping an eye out for them. If they are being used, it's likely that they'll be used from a motorway bridge catching drivers speeding on the motorway below. Only an on the ball driver would spot one of these traps.

In my experience, normal laser guns are always mounted on tripods. Although it is theroetically possible to use a laser gun handheld, you'd need a very steady hand. What happens is people see the tripod and assume that there must be a camera there too which is an incorrect assumption.

OTOH, radar guns (hairdryers) always seem to be handheld.

What this all boils down to is - if you see a cop on the side of the road doing speed checks with a laser or radar gun, you can be 99% certain that he will pull you over there and then if he intends to give you a ticket for speeding.

If any of the above info is incorrect hopefully Alfasud can clear things up

BrianD3

Banjo013

Many times I've gone by a Guard with the tripod thing in excess of the speed limit and didn't get stopped. Never got anything in the post either. How come this happens sometimes ? Am I just lucky and am wearing away at my luck every time ?!

There seems to be a particular focus on Citywest Road in recent times - they're often there just at the Blessington Road side of the roundabout with Fortunestown Lane. There's a long strech of straight road approaching that particular point - ideal for speed detection. A friend of mine was pulled up a few weeks ago, but I've never been stopped for some bizzare reason.

Regarding the tripod with the thing at the top (what are those rectangular box things called anyway at the top of the tripod ??) what is the effective range of them ? As in at what distance from the "thing" can they detect the speed of an oncoming car ?

Just occurred to me actually - what's the point in having those things out there anyway if they can't issue a receipt or written record of the speed you were going at ?

Alfasudcrazy

BrianD3 wrote:

If any of the above info is incorrect hopefully Alfasud can clear things up

You are basically correct in what you say - however all the newest gadgets get tried out in Dublin first before eventually finding their way out to the sticks - I am only speaking for the regional situation

Alfasudcrazy

'Many times I've gone by a Guard with the tripod thing in excess of the speed limit and didn't get stopped. Never got anything in the post either. How come this happens sometimes ? Am I just lucky and am wearing away at my luck every time ?!'

Probably another car doing a greater speed than you at the time or you were simply not speeding - the laser can only target one car at a time

'Regarding the tripod with the thing at the top (what are those rectangular box things called anyway at the top of the tripod ??)'

That's the laser gun - many people think its a camera and we always get calls from someone in a panic that they were 'photographed' by a Garda doing 3Km over the speed limit etc - not the case it only records the speed

'Just occurred to me actually - what's the point in having those things out there anyway if they can't issue a receipt or written record of the speed you were going at ?'

That legal loophole has now been closed by recent new legislation so its no longer necessary for the speed gun to issue a written receipt of the speed.

Eoin

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

'Just occurred to me actually - what's the point in having those things out there anyway if they can't issue a receipt or written record of the speed you were going at ?'

That legal loophole has now been closed by recent new legislation so its no longer necessary for the speed gun to issue a written receipt of the speed.

I wouldn't have seen that as a loophole, I think that anyone should be entitled to a print out. IIRC, not so long ago there was a post in this forum about someone who was stopped by a Garda and was told that he was doing 67KMPH. When he requested to see the speed on the gun, the Garda threw the toys from the pram, but it turned out he was actually doing 62KMPH (in a 60KMPH area).

IMO this rule should have been upheld, and the units upgraded so they could provide some written proof.

Banjo013

eoin_s wrote:

IMO this rule should have been upheld, and the units upgraded so they could provide some written proof.

I would tend to agree .... let me ask two questions to qualify my opinion :-

1. Do individual Gardai (or the force as a whole) have some sort of quota to reach or a target for the number of speeding offences successfully prosecuted ?
2. Is it possible to manipulate the speed gun to show any speed without actually taking a measurement from a car ? Failing that, I presume it's possible to take a reading from a car and pining it on another car.

If the answer to both these is yes, then it comes down to the Guards word against the motorist. Even if the answer to both is no, well it does still come down to the Guards word against the motorist, and that to me is not satisfactory. It has been shown that a Guards word is not always reliable through some high profile legal cases. I'm not taring all Guards with the same brush, nor do I have a problem with their authority I might add. But what mechanism is there to use when motorist X has been wrongfully accused, and both Mr. X and the Guard knows it ?

In my opinion, there should be a system whereby the machine can print off a written receipt of the speed, along with the time/date stamped on it and the location. Also a photograph of the car doing the speeding should be taken at the same time, the ensure it wasn't the car beside you doing the speeding.

It'll never happen I know, but the system as it is now is too open to manipulation.

Alun

Wasn't there a well publicised case in the UK a good number of years back where someone demonstrated in the courtroom that one of the jurors (who wasn't moving incidentally) was travelling at some speed using one of these handheld speed guns, aka hairdryers? There are some very specific guidelines and procedures for these things to be anywhere near accurate, and ISTR that many if not most Gardai weren't being given this training. It's all to do with how steadily the things are held, and even a small sudden movement of the gun itself can render the result wildly inaccurate.

I agree that the guns should at least print out a 'receipt'. I mean, if there was a knock on the door one night and there was a Garda standing there who accused you of some arbitrary crime, and when asked what evidence he had, he just said "Because I say so!", you'd tell him to sod off and get some proper evidence. So why should speeding be any different?

Seth Brundle

It has also been shown that devides such as mobile phones can affect the reading. How many gardai do you think actually turn off thier phone before performing speed checks?