Manned/Unmanned level crossings.

DMC

This has had me thinking for ages.

On the Maynooth railway line, there are a mixture of manned and unmanned/automatic level crossings, and even one where it looks half-arsed. The automatic crossings are at Coolmine station and just past Clonsilla station (maybe more towards Maynooth, can't remember off hand.) Yet, there are two manned level crossings at Ashtown station and on the Ratoath Road before Broombridge station. The Clonsilla station level crossing seems automatic for the closing of the gates, but doesnt have the flashing double red lights.

Question is, why are there still manned level crossings at these points? Just curious.

murphaph

Clonsilla is manned. You can see the keeper up in the signal cabin with a big wheel, connected by cables to the gate. Given the awkward and dangerous nature of the approach road, I'd say that's why it's still manned.

The 2 other manned gates are also on awkward junctions, but I heard somewhere that a possible reason these gates are manned is because they are to be replaced with bridges in the medium term to allow more trains without hindering traffic at these fairly busy junctions.

The automated ones (3 I believe) are either on very quiet roads or in th case of Coolmine are on a dead straight approach road.

BrianD

I think there is a labour relations issue with these crossings. The automatic crossings will be introduced as soon as they can phase the gatekeeper through retirement. A lot of these gate keepers get a house as part of the deal so its been difficult to modernise the sysytem.

Bogger77

BrianD wrote:

I think there is a labour relations issue with these crossings. The automatic crossings will be introduced as soon as they can phase the gatekeeper through retirement. A lot of these gate keepers get a house as part of the deal so its been difficult to modernise the sysytem.

There's very few of these gatekeepers left, most have been left in the house and given track walking duties, or just given the house and retired.

Issue with the the Sligo Dublin line, is that from Mullingar to Dublin it follows the Royal Canal, the level crossings here are usually on quite dangerous locations, in the dip of the canal bridge. Makes sense to have someone on site to monitor and report on any accidents etc.

murphaph

BrianD wrote:

I think there is a labour relations issue with these crossings. The automatic crossings will be introduced as soon as they can phase the gatekeeper through retirement. A lot of these gate keepers get a house as part of the deal so its been difficult to modernise the sysytem.

I'm not so sure about that in the context of this particular stretch of line Brian. None of the crossings still manned have a cottage-they have 'luxury portakabins'. The last gate keeper at Westmanstown was a young man, there's no way he retired-he would have been re-deployed. I'm pretty sure it's a technical reason, remember IE have big visions for this line in the future. Those awkward double hairpin bends are dangerous and the traffic can be chronic when the gates shut. Imagine the gates on the Ratoath Rd. closing 10 times an hour or more! Chaos on a small but very busy road like that.

DMC

I was thinking it was a mixture of labour relations and the location of the canal bridges, but wouldn't a couple of extra sets of traffic lights solve that problem?

Bogger77

DMC wrote:

I was thinking it was a mixture of labour relations and the location of the canal bridges, but wouldn't a couple of extra sets of traffic lights solve that problem?

I'm guessing you'll see bridges built over railway and canal in the future

murphaph

DMC wrote:

I was thinking it was a mixture of labour relations and the location of the canal bridges, but wouldn't a couple of extra sets of traffic lights solve that problem?

Huh? An automated level crossing comes in at around €700,000 believe it or not! You can't just put up traffic lights to guard a heavy rail crossing.

John R

murphaph wrote:

Huh? An automated level crossing comes in at around €700,000 believe it or not! You can't just put up traffic lights to guard a heavy rail crossing.

Indeed. The "success" of using traffic lights to protect Luas crossings comes to mind.

DMC

murphaph wrote:

Huh? An automated level crossing comes in at around €700,000 believe it or not! You can't just put up traffic lights to guard a heavy rail crossing.

Ah. Let's take for example, if Ashtown Station level crossing went automatic as it stands, and the way the road currrently lies remained.

On one side, from the Ashtown roundabout / Halfway House, you have full clear visibilty of the level crossing ahead. On the other, you do not, as the road is twisty and bendy, and also, the canal bridge has a blind crest.

If it were to go automatic as it is today, wouldn't an extra set(s) of lights suffice for the traffic on the canal bridge side? Because even there, at the moment, you come around the bends in a car, and you may not be able to see traffic queueing.

I understand there may be plans to change that bridge, but wouldn't it have made sense doing it when a) when IE was working on dualling the line around 2000 and b) before the development at Rathbourne took off? The same could be said for the Ratoath Road, as the Canal development has occured there.

murphaph

DMC wrote:

If it were to go automatic as it is today, wouldn't an extra set(s) of lights suffice for the traffic on the canal bridge side?

No. It would not meet legal requirements for the protection of road crossings of heavy rail lines. It's not something worth saving money on if someone stupidly or not decides to break the lights (oh, and traffic lights malfunction too, do you eae your way out in front of the half six to Sligo to see if the way is clear?!)

DMC wrote:

I understand there may be plans to change that bridge, but wouldn't it have made sense doing it when a) when IE was working on dualling the line around 2000

That part of the line has always been twin track. Twin tracking took place between Clonsilla and Maynooth. No major works took place here in 2000. CWR was laid in 1997 but remember funding is still relatively thin on the ground. IE would not have had enough to build new bridges on a relatively quiet line.

DMC

murphaph wrote:

No. It would not meet legal requirements for the protection of road crossings of heavy rail lines. It's not something worth saving money on if someone stupidly or not decides to break the lights (oh, and traffic lights malfunction too, do you eae your way out in front of the half six to Sligo to see if the way is clear?!)

Of course there would be barriers, I'm wondering did we gloss over that? I'm just mentioning that an extra set of lights around a snaking bend on the road, in combination with the normal set lights and barriers normally assocated with an automatic level crossing, not just lights alone. But so many level crossings on mainline rail are automatic, with lights and barriers, and on national routes too?

Also, a small outlay, a sign that says "Another Train Coming" wouldn't be any harm for those road users who have no patience.