What are my/our rights?

Citizen Jake

I share a house with two other people. We all work, pay our rent monthly and jointly work out our bills such as ESB and phone together.

Last Friday a letter was posted from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown addressed to our landlord and to occupiers (us) demanding back charges of around E1,500 :mad: for rubbish collection. The charges were back-dated to January 2000.

Okay, people for some time have had to live with the reality of bin charges and I have no objection to paying my fair share. However, while I've been aware of the issue for some time now we had received absolutely no correspondence from the council since the charges were introduced. How fair is it then to suddenly lump people - young people saving to buy their own houses someday hopefully - with charges that they weren't aware of.

I've been a tenant in the house since 1999 and my two flatmates have only been there two years and two months respectively.

I've no objection to paying the charges going forward but to charge people retrospectively like that when its been five years since the service was introduced and they never bothered to communicate with us I think is grossly unfair.

What do you guys think? Am I wrong about this? Should we approach the landlord about this? Stumping up E1,500 for other people's waste (okay, in reality I represent one-third of that and would be ultimately prepared to pay that much if push came to shove) pardon the pun is crap.

Ideas anyone?

Jake

rondjon

Short answer - tough!!!

Just cause you're aware of something and ignored it, and it finally caught up with you, doesn't mean you're liable for the charges.

You don't have a leg to stand on here I reckon. If the charges were building up in the background, legitimately, and you just weren't paying them, I don't see how you can feel hard done by.

To be honest, the way I see it, you're getting all high and mighty now because you've finally been caught out on something you've probably been snickering about for the past 4 years .... hey, look at us, we're stiffing the council by getting them to collect our bins for free... I guess you're students as well???

Anyway, best you can hope for is to go to the council, explain that money is tight, and arrange some sort of monthly repayment along with your current payments until it's paid off.

charlo_b

Simple....move.

Drummer

If it was my place - i wouldn't pay them - ever.

I wouldn't pay bin charges or tv licence charges.

We are overcharged in this country for everything, especially in Dublin.

We pay enough taxes to cover a weekly refuse collection - why don't government ministers buy and drive their own cars or us public transport and save the enviroment.

As for the tv, who watches RTÉ ?! - i don't, so therefore dont see why i should pay for it.

Guy:Incognito

Drummer wrote:

If it was my place - i wouldn't pay them - ever.

I wouldn't pay bin charges or tv licence charges.

We are overcharged in this country for everything, especially in Dublin.

We pay enough taxes to cover a weekly refuse collection - why don't government ministers buy and drive their own cars or us public transport and save the enviroment.

As for the tv, who watches RTÉ ?! - i don't, so therefore dont see why i should pay for it.

I don't agree with speed limits on certain roads so I dont think I should have to obey them.

I also think I paid to much for my tv. I think that instead of the €800 the shop are charging I'll just throw €600 at them and walk out with the tv.

rondjon

Save me!!!

I surrounded by mangy students.

"I don't agree with speed limits so I don't obey them"... ffs... that's unbelievable.

charon

I think he was being sarcastic about the speed limit thing.....at least I hope he was!

sceptre

charon wrote:

I think he was being sarcastic about the speed limit thing.....at least I hope he was!

You think?

Rondjon, your sarcasm detector is completely broken. Buy a new one (don't forget to shop around:)).

Citizen Jake

Thanks for your responses, they were em, entertaining. As I said in my message I have no objection to paying the charges going forward.

What I object to is the inept way that they have failed to simply inform us of the charges for five years and then suddenly land us with a hefty bill. If I had known from the start yes I would have paid but I'm not to blame for their administrative issues. We received nothing - no leaflets, letters or anything - to tell us about the charges. None of us are from the area, don't know our neighbours so we weren't even aware that the council in our area had applied charges.

I'll pardon you for your ridiculous mangy student rant (we're not students). I am like any person who gets hit with a bill for 1,500 out of the blue. Shocked and pissed off. If you can't understand that then you've got issues. Didn't people protest and go to jail over the charges? Were they mangy students?

Enii

Get in touch with the council, I'm sure they would be willing to let you pay in installments.....

rondjon

Citizen Jake wrote:

Didn't people protest and go to jail over the charges?

people went to jail protesting about the imminent or future imposition of charges where there had been no charges before.

they didn't go to jail for wilfully ignoring charges already in place for a bin collection service they were availing of for 5 years.

face it citizen jake, you got caught out not paying your bills and you're trying some sort of high minded indignation to try to get around paying your dues.

just do as last poster suggested, contact council, plead poverty, and ask them nicely can you pay by installments.

Citizen Jake

Whatever. I don't recall saying I "wilfully ignored" the regime. Ignorance, yes. I would still have preferred if I had known from the start and would have paid from then on. Five years of back charges is bull****. In their letter they actually acknowledged their mistake and apologised, so in part they are accepting the blame.

rondjon

Citizen Jake wrote:

However, while I've been aware of the issue for some time now we had received absolutely no correspondence from the council since the charges were introduced.

This statement in your original post seems to contradict your most recent post.

And, as in tax matters, claiming that they didn't come looking for the money, or that you didn't realise that you had to pay (which you clearly did know), is no defence for wilfully ignoring the charges due.

(And please don't pick up on my use of the word wilfully again. Definition wilfully - Of one's own free will. Unless your defence is going to now be that someone MADE you avoid paying the bin charges).

Keyzer

rondjon wrote:

Save me!!!

I surrounded by mangy students.

"I don't agree with speed limits so I don't obey them"... ffs... that's unbelievable.

As they say in the Gaeltacht - Cabaiste....

Citizen Jake

I meant: I was aware of bin charge protests in Dublin and of the subject as a national issue. Again - I received no correspondence from my local county council until last week.

I would RATHER have known of the actual charges from day one and have paid from day one. Can no one understand that its no use to anyone to receive backcharges for five years and then be hit with a lump sum? Instead I am hit with a large bill because of their administrative incompetence. It's an inconvenience that I just wanted to get off my chest.

Do you lot work for bin collectors or something? Or were you all smug teachers' pets who could do no wrong? I've spoken to people on the street about this and they agree its a stupid situation. I'm beginning to wonder does the Government actually police the ROI to curb dissent. Now that's a hell of a conspiracy theory . . .

jor el

Did you ever get a bill of notification of where to pay your bin charges? Did this demand come in your name or to "The Occupier"? If it's not addressed directly to you then there's fu*k all they can do about it. Also, if they didn't issue you with a bill then how were you supposed to pay?

And finally, maybe ring the council and tell them you haven't been leaving out a bin for the last 5 years. I'd like to see them prove that you have.

rondjon

jor el wrote:

Did this demand come in your name or to "The Occupier"? If it's not addressed directly to you then there's fu*k all they can do about it.

I think you'll find that that's not a defence for not paying bills in this case.

Waste Management Act, 1996

"Where the name of the person concerned cannot be ascertained by reasonable inquiry, a notice under this Act may be addressed to "the occupier", "the owner" or "the person in charge", as the case may be."

kstanl

I have to say, I kind of empathise with Jake's position. The council failed to inform him directly, as it should be their onus to do, about the tax due. However, I don't think you've got a leg to stand on legally, mate! I'd be inclined to look into it though. Speak to a solicitor and find out if the council are indeed obliged to bill you for monies owed at the time and not 5 years later.

themole

i does seem pretty stupid to only get a bill after 5 years.

they should havce stopped collecting the bins, its as simple as that.

but as said now several times, you will prob have to pay. if i was you i would move out.

i moved house around 6 months ago, a few days before i moved out i was looking through the post and i saw a waste bill for around 1200, was glad i was already moving out when i saw it. thats the first i had seen of any waste bills and since i wasn't living there a year i thought it had been paid already

Enii

themole wrote:

i does seem pretty stupid to only get a bill after 5 years.

they should havce stopped collecting the bins, its as simple as that.

but as said now several times, you will prob have to pay. if i was you i would move out.

i moved house around 6 months ago, a few days before i moved out i was looking through the post and i saw a waste bill for around 1200, was glad i was already moving out when i saw it. thats the first i had seen of any waste bills and since i wasn't living there a year i thought it had been paid already

i thought when you are selling ahouse that your solicitor is suposed to make sure that all waste charges are paid. Or maybe it is the buyers solicitor?

RainyDay

Drummer wrote:

If it was my place - i wouldn't pay them - ever.

I wouldn't pay bin charges or tv licence charges.

We are overcharged in this country for everything, especially in Dublin.

We pay enough taxes to cover a weekly refuse collection - why don't government ministers buy and drive their own cars or us public transport and save the enviroment.

As for the tv, who watches RTÉ ?! - i don't, so therefore dont see why i should pay for it.

Who are you kidding? No-one is going to take seriously any possible concern you express for the environment when you refuse to take responsibility for your own waste. Don't bring up red herrings about Minister's cars - that's got nothing to do with it. The ministers are staying within the law (well, the sober ones are anyway).

Scroungers like you leave decent people to pick up your tab.