LIONS 2005 announced - comments

LegacyUser

well the team has been announced - 11 Irish, pleasantly surprised. What are your thoughts...



British and Irish Lions

Backs: I Balshaw (England and Leeds), G Murphy (Ireland and Leicester), J Robinson (England and Sale Sharks), G Thomas (Wales and Toulouse), S Williams (Wales and Neath-Swansea Ospreys), J Lewsey (England and Wasps), S Horgan (Ireland and Leinster), D Hickie (Ireland and Leinster), T Shanklin (Wales and Cardiff Blues), B O'Driscoll (Ireland and Leinster, capt), G Henson (Wales and Neath-Swansea Ospreys), O Smith (England and Leicester), G D'Arcy (Ireland and Leinster), W Greenwood (England and Harlequins), S Jones (Wales and Clermont Auvergne), R O'Gara (Ireland and Munster), C Hodgson (England and Sale Sharks), M Dawson (England and Wasps), D Peel (Wales and Llanelli Scarlets), G Cooper (Wales and Newport Gwent Dragons), C Cusiter (Scotland and Borders).

Forwards: G Rowntree (England and Leicester), A Sheridan (England and Sale Sharks), M Stevens (England and Bath), G Jenkins (Wales and Cardiff Blues), J White (England and Leicester), J Hayes (Ireland and Munster), G Bulloch (Scotland and Glasgow), S Thompson (England and Northampton), A Titterrell (England and Sale Sharks), S Byrne (Ireland and Leinster), D Grewcock (England and Bath), B Kay (England and Leicester), M O'Kelly (Ireland and Leinster), D O'Callaghan (Ireland and Munster), P O'Connell (Ireland and Munster), M Owen (Wales and Newport Gwent Dragons), R Hill (England and Saracens), N Back (England and Leicester), M Williams (Wales and Cardiff Blues), L Moody (England and Leicester), S Taylor (Scotland and Edinburgh), M Corry (England and Leicester), L Dallaglio (England and Wasps),

MG

Generally okay

Squad is far too big. In fairness, he can't get it too wrong with such a big squad.

Too many fringe English players included (Sheridan, Titterall, Balshaw, Smith, Greenwood). Are the first three fringe players better than their Welsh counterparts? Is Balshaw a better bet than Patterson or Morgan? SCW would have been better off dropping two of these, say Titterall and Balshaw and including an extra Welsh & Scot (Davies & Patterson). Would have been politically better and not weakened team at all.

Possibly too loyal to older English players.

tHE vAGGABOND

Hickey and the Bull cant have really been expecting it, good for them..

very happy O'Callaghan is in there, he would be on the starting 15 of any other team bar aussie and Kiwi's IMHO - he is just unlucky we have the 2 best second rowers in the world at the mo ahead of him.

As good as we could have expected - thrilled Winkinson is not in there, a bit pissed Back and Dallaglio are - at the expense of our back rowers like Foley you would have to think..

Fact is that a lot of the fringe england players like greenwood are bloody good players and in the event of a coin toss for a place on the plane Woodward knows all about them.

But generally very happy with the squad

(as someone said at the weekend, in 1982 the lions went to new zealand with a team focused around a 'one tournanement wonder' - us at the time, and they get murdered over there. We were hoping wales single good season would not sway the selectors too much. And it did not - suits me)

istep

Yeah generaly that from an irish point of view is a best case scenario and all the guys who I was hoping would make it did with the possible exception of JOC in the back row as a young agressive groundhog.

Very happy for Dennis Hickie (oops your colours are showing !! ) tho.

Incidently ready made excuse for eddie o'sullivan if it all goes tits up with sooo many english reps even with mediocre 6 nation showing.

Anyho now we can start speculating on a test side.

[Jackass]

istep wrote:

Anyho now we can start speculating on a test side.

This is mine:

15. G Thomas
14. J Robinson/ G Murphy (despite both having poor 6N)
13. B O'Driscoll (Not Capt)
12. G Henson (G D'Arcy just miss out due to lack of action in 6N)
11. S Williams
10. S Jones
9. M Dawson
8. L Dallalio
7. L Moody
6. N Back
5. P O'Connell (Capt)
4. D O'Callighan (B Kay/M O'Kelly for Bench, but neither playing well enough)

dont know/care about front row. possibly since ours is so poor.

Trojan

I don't think Murphy can be criticised on the basis of his 6N performance after seeing that ERC game in Lansdowne.

POC: Capt? Huh? I'd stick in DOC beside, defo.

Do people really rate Moody?

daveirl

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Chucky the tree

tHE vAGGABOND wrote:

a bit pissed Back and Dallaglio are - at the expense of our back rowers like Foley you would have to think..

foley would never of made it, JOC and wallace where probaly a head of him.

the only selection i am supirsed as is balshaw. Greenwood wasnt a massive supirse, wouldnt of had him on my team though.

heres my team cureently.

1. G Rowntree
2. S Thompson
3. J White.
4. M O'kelly*
5. POC
6. N Back
7. L Dallaglio*
8. Martin Corry*
9. Dawson
10 Jones(wilkonson if he is fit though)
11. J lewsey
12. G Henson
13. BOD
14. Robinson
15. Muprhy


Front Row: Know very little about front rows. Only one i was unsure of was rowntree though. Thompson will get the nod of byrne for his physical presence.

Second Row: Very tough choice for the partnership with POC. Cureently i would got with mal but thats certainly not a given.

Back Row This is probaly the hardest one to call, the versatilty of dallaglio means he might be put too no8 and martin williams in a 7. One of corry or dallaglio will definitly make it. Williams is the only one with a great chance of breaking that up i think.

Half backs Dawson will get the nod for his expereicne, out-half all depends on injury of wilkinson.

Centres Henson is the only really opition to partner him BOd i think.

Back three Murphy and Robinson could easily change palces, so i am not too sure. EEven during the matches they might constantly switch. I dont think shane williams is strong enough to make the team. Already having one off-the-cuff attacker in Robinson is enough for WW.

The * is for the players who are not guranteed a place. I feel the rest are, barring they have a complete shambles in training and the pre-test matches. And injury obviously.

PowerHouseDan

Just noticed today on the local paper where they interviewed Rog. He said he got a phone call on sunday night from Sir Clive saying he was in the party and that he wanted to ask do they have any objections if Wilko travels if he is fit. Sir Clive made 3 Calls to the 3 kickers where they all replied we want to win the lions tour and we dont object.

RuggieBear

Chucky the tree wrote:

1. G Rowntree
2. S Thompson
3. J White.
4. M O'kelly*
5. POC
6. N Back
7. L Dallaglio*
8. Martin Corry*
9. Dawson
10 Jones(wilkonson if he is fit though)
11. J lewsey
12. G Henson
13. BOD
14. Robinson
15. Muprhy

I'm afraid i disagree witha lot of that team....

front row is good...mainly coz Byrnes throwing is erratic lately and he is taking an age to throw...

MOK should not make the test team unless he is having a storming pre test tour. I'd go DOC or Michael Owen in 2nd row

Think you got your numbers mixed up in the back row....I'd have Dallagio at 6, Williams at 7 and Corry at 8...now thats abit unbalanced but a good ball carrying unit

Dwayne peel and Jones are my halfbacks

Henson wouldn't play 12 unless Hodgson was playing and we needed a kicker....otherwise my 12 would be D'Arcy depending on his pre test performance and fitness

BOD, lewsy, Robinson and Murphy....yep

Chucky the tree

RuggieBear wrote:

MOK should not make the test team unless he is having a storming pre test tour. I'd go DOC or Michael Owen in 2nd row

i agree he has been poorer then usual. But his past history has shown how good he can be, DOC is the one who has alot to prove at the hightest level, since heh asnt had much game time with IReland. Although since WW is a big fan of DOC though, but ifeel he might be to inexperienced

RuggieBear wrote:

Think you got your numbers mixed up in the back row....I'd have Dallagio at 6, Williams at 7 and Corry at 8...now thats abit unbalanced but a good ball carrying unit

THe reason i went for back is becuase its new zealand, they are going to be very attacking. THe lions need a player who will slow them down as much as possible and Back is the best player to do that. They really dont need 3 ball carrying back-rows i think.

RuggieBear wrote:

Dwayne peel and Jones are my halfbacks

Henson wouldn't play 12 unless Hodgson was playing and we needed a kicker....otherwise my 12 would be D'Arcy depending on his pre test performance and fitness

If D'arcy has a blinder he will be a possibility, but WW being a more defense minded coach i would be supirsed if he picks him.

oh and Dawson's experience will get him his game. He will pull the finger out for the lions tour and actually play as good as he can, so thats why i gave him his palce!

padser

its an aboslute discrace, how can 20 english player be justified? Some of the English players simply do not deserve their places on the panel. If SCW can not excersise his duty to the lions objectively then he shouldnt be the coach. He should step down after this discracful display!

RuggieBear

padser wrote:

its an aboslute discrace, how can 20 english player be justified? Some of the English players simply do not deserve their places on the panel. If SCW can not excersise his duty to the lions objectively then he shouldnt be the coach. He should step down after this discracful display!

uh huh......who shouldn't be going and why? i'll admit i have my reservations n a good few selections....

Amz

padser wrote:

its an aboslute discrace, how can 20 english player be justified? Some of the English players simply do not deserve their places on the panel. If SCW can not excersise his duty to the lions objectively then he shouldnt be the coach. He should step down after this discracful display!

Care to qualify this for us padser?

padser

SCW has showed clear bias towards english players. PLayers such as titteral, dallagio, back, smith simply didnt perform of a high enough in the 6 nations or indeed in the HC (dont watch the premiership so cant comment about that) to justify their places. Welsh players can justifialbly feel v hard done by to have missed out to english conterparters who didnt produce the goods on the field this season. If SCW cant differentiate between his personal feelings towards theses players he knows so well and professional objective assessemnt of current then he shouldnt be coach.

daveirl

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RuggieBear

daveirl wrote:

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Funnily, enough padser is an old friend's nickname for me

Yeah, Henry really did take the piss in 2001....

but i still blame Donal Lenihan....how the **** he was deemed capable of managing anything is beyond me....the fact the T-Bone Howe was called up as a reserve instead of D. Hickie or that he chose Henry to be coach ahead of Woodward, in the first place, for personal reasons, sums that ****wit up for me.