Messy Bus Stops

murphaph

[rant]
Why oh why do we allow multiple bus stops erected by each of the private operators all on their own poles??? It really annoys me-it's such a bloody eyesore and completely pointless. There should be ONE bus stop with NO branding (B.A.C., Mortons, AMC whatever...). The timetables should be all on the same format, no branding with perhaps a small note about who operates the service.

I know all this is probably light years away (not before a Dublin transit authority is established with real teeth to get these separate operators and knock skulls together to get a coherent public transport system for Dublin). It's the usual Irish half-arsed way of doing absiolutely everything. Arrrggghhh.
[/rant]

Flukey

Another thing on messy bus stops is why the shelters are never properly cleaned. There is one down on the Sandford Road, near Ranelagh, on the way into town and it is terrible. It has actually improved in recent times though . There were branches from a bush growing out across it, but they were cut back last year. There was a bottle lying on the top of it for years and moss had grown around it and into it, lodging it into place. It recently disappeared, though not because of a cleaning of the top of the shelter. There are a lot of others around Dublin that could do with being cleaned. Most have flat tops which means the dirt accumulates. A slight sloped frome the centre style top would help a little.

You also see ones that are up against walls or fences etc with all sorts of rubbish wedged in between the glass back and whatever is behind. There is of course all the bus tickets thrown as people get off the buses and all sorts of things left lying, like empty cans bottles, in the stop that people have been using while waiting. I suppose it all comes back to the approach many people have to litter and how they think nothing of throwing something on the ground. What is worse is that there in often a bin nearby. They are often behind the sheltered end of the stop, out of sight, but even that is not an excuse. I've often picked up such items and thrown them into the nearby bin. It is such a simple thing to do, as would be throwing it into the bin in the first place. Maybe they should actually build a bin into the design of bus shelters, although that would not guarantee it would be used.

In any regard, Adshel, or whoever is responsible for their maintenance, should clean these shelters regularly. It would not take very long to clean the roof and the stuff wedged in behind. They do replace the advertisements and the broken glass fairly quickly, although they don't always do a great job of cleaning up the shattered pieces. It would be so simple to give the shelters a regular cleaning. I've often felt the urge to clean that one on Sandford Road!!!

dmeehan

a built-in-bin would probably be used to light fires in :rolleyes:

Flukey

Quite possibly in certain parts of Dublin. Still, those sorts of people will always find something to do to damage things and we can't just stop things on account of them. As I said, a lot of the shelters have bins near them, though often at the back or off the side of the shelter, so not very accessible. Of course when a bus comes, people hop on and throw their rubbish away, regardless of how easy it is to put it in a bin. It's the mindset we have to change.:(

pork99

Another poor feature of Dublin Bus stops are those "prayer wheel" timetables. They are only playthings for the anti-social street vermin chavster element to smash and/or burn to amuse their primitive brains.

They're the sort of thing that some design student would come up with and feel very clever and pleased with him/herself but as is often the case with design student's brilliant ideas in the real world about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest.

I see that DB have started replacing them with more conventional and hopefuly more vandal proof flat displays.

MT

pork99 wrote:

They are only playthings for the anti-social street vermin chavster element to smash and/or burn to amuse their primitive brains.

I think it’s very difficult to make any piece of street furniture completely chav proof. Certainly good design may well see off the few kids messing about, but short of using nothing but steel the determined vandal will always win. The real solution to the chav problem imo is better policing – preferably the zero tolerance version that was adopted in New York. If properly penalised early on for minor transgressions the fúckers won’t even get around to smashing up bus stops. There’s a huge chav/spide problem in Belfast. A few years ago sparkling new glass and stainless steel bus shelters were placed in and around the city centre. Within a few weeks virtually every other one had been smashed up. Chavs and bad design do not go together – glass sheets in bus shelters, what were they thinking of?

murphaph wrote:

Why oh why do we allow multiple bus stops erected by each of the private operators all on their own poles??? It really annoys me-it's such a bloody eyesore and completely pointless.

Very good point. They’re not only an eyesore but too many signage poles make life more difficult for pedestrians. I think this ties in well with a broader theme – increasing street clutter. It’s something I mentioned in the past concerning traffic signs. There’s got to be a more co-ordinated approach ensuring as few poles are erected on footpaths as possible. This means as many traffic signs, bus stop signs, etc. placed on as few poles as possible. The idea would make economic sense, detract less from the appearance of streetscapes and make life that bit simpler for the pedestrian.

Interestingly, this is an issue which has been raised recently in England. The conservation body English Heritage (similar to An Taisce) has announced that it will work with planners to ensure the growth of the every increasing forest of traffic signs in towns and cities is stemmed and that their placement becomes more sympathetic to the surrounding environment. Maybe An Taisce and An Bord pleanála/council planning departments could get together here and come up with some strategic guidelines to tackle this problem. After all, as more and more signs are put up willy nilly it’s an eyesore that is only going to get worse.

Third_Echelon

murphaph wrote:

Why oh why do we allow multiple bus stops erected by each of the private operators all on their own poles??? It really annoys me-it's such a bloody eyesore and completely pointless.

...eh perhaps to let the people who want to use the service know where the bus stop is and who the operator is???

murphaph wrote:

There should be ONE bus stop with NO branding (B.A.C., Mortons, AMC whatever...). The timetables should be all on the same format, no branding with perhaps a small note about who operates the service.

Ok then, so all the buses should stop at one stop then??? So what about when 2 or 3 buses from the different companies all want to stop at the same time? And you might as well throw in a few Dublin Buses to the queue... CHAOS... UTTER CHAOS.

Its actually better to have the stops spread out to stop bus and people queues at the stops..

No branding? Why not? Dublin Bus have their logo on their bus stops... Getting people to identify your service/product to a logo or image is what brand recognition is all about... These private operators want people to recognise their logo and know where they can get their bus. Simple.

Drummer

I agree why not have the shelter with a sign for each bus operator on top. Alternatively, one pole with 3 or 4 different signs.

Another thing is the positioning of shelters. Have they ever thought of positioning them so they block the prevailing wind ? I used to stand at one where you would be better standing behind it as the wind would just whip the rain straight in at you.

Victor

Drummer wrote:

Another thing is the positioning of shelters. Have they ever thought of positioning them so they block the prevailing wind ? I used to stand at one where you would be better standing behind it as the wind would just whip the rain straight in at you.

Shelters tend to be position with the long wall to the rear and the short wall at the down-traffic end of the shelter. This means the driver can see the shelter users and vice versa and the full kerb length is available for loading.

murphaph

Third_Echelon wrote:

...eh perhaps to let the people who want to use the service know where the bus stop is and who the operator is???

They can read it from the timetable footnote. No need to advertise which operator runs a particular number bus. They can advertise on TV or on the sides of their buses etc.

Third_Echelon wrote:

Ok then, so all the buses should stop at one stop then??? So what about when 2 or 3 buses from the different companies all want to stop at the same time? And you might as well throw in a few Dublin Buses to the queue... CHAOS... UTTER CHAOS.

Eh, what are you on about? What's the difference between that scenario and today when exactly the same thing happens with multiple operators all putting up their signs at the same shelter, it's just a matter of removing the actual poles and signs from a single stp and replacing them with ONE sign that says 'BUS STOP'.

Third_Echelon wrote:

Its actually better to have the stops spread out to stop bus and people queues at the stops..

I wasn't talking at all about this scenario in my original post but I stand by the above, if a stop already exists, one should not be erected 50m down the road by another operator, just adding to street clutter and giving passengers poorer connection possibilities (bloke waits for bus x at stop y, sees bus z which is also good for him and has to do a 50 yard dash to stop k, stupid!)

Third_Echelon wrote:

No branding? Why not? Dublin Bus have their logo on their bus stops... Getting people to identify your service/product to a logo or image is what brand recognition is all about... These private operators want people to recognise their logo and know where they can get their bus. Simple.

Did you bother to read my post? I said NO BRANDING including BAC, just a sign that says 'BUS STOP'. Simple. Advertising is for the sides of buses and other acceptable places, no need to make every bus stop roundel into a mini-ad. Messy.

BuffyBot

Third_Echelon wrote:

...eh perhaps to let the people who want to use the service know where the bus stop is and who the operator is???

Not nessecary. One bus stop for all busses that serve the stop makes total sense. As for the operator, that can be printed on the timetables. It would help though if there was a proper route number assigned to the private operators first (unlike at present) - then the stop could list all buses that stop there i.e.:

___________________________________________

GREEN STREET

Towards: Yellow Road, Bluetown

10 27 34 64A 221 691

____________________________________________

Therefore you've eliminated the need for each operator to have a seperate pole at the stop

Ok then, so all the buses should stop at one stop then??? So what about when 2 or 3 buses from the different companies all want to stop at the same time? And you might as well throw in a few Dublin Buses to the queue... CHAOS... UTTER CHAOS.

The point is many of them do anyway, but have 3/4 different displays at the one spot. You're confusing the issue of bus bay size with this issue of having multiple sign posts for little or no reason.

No branding? Why not? Dublin Bus have their logo on their bus stops... Getting people to identify your service/product to a logo or image is what brand recognition is all about...

They don't need specific branding - that's on the vehicles. What you do need is an easily identifible stopping place..just one. Look at London - none of they stops there are branded with the operator logos, just a TfL roundel. The buses have the logos of the seperate companies.

murphaph

Drummer wrote:

Another thing is the positioning of shelters. Have they ever thought of positioning them so they block the prevailing wind ? I used to stand at one where you would be better standing behind it as the wind would just whip the rain straight in at you.

If this wasn't such an anti-social sh!thole you could erect quality bus stops with a glass 3/4 width panel at the other end of the stop so you can still see the approaching bus and the driver can see you. The ant-vandal perspex is useless. It's easily vandalised by scrattching/burning/kicking out. I hate it round my area-all the bus stops are destroyed and they used to be really nice (they are some of the original city swift stops with all stops named etc.). The scum should pay.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

If this wasn't such an anti-social sh!thole you could erect quality bus stops with a glass 3/4 width panel at the other end of the stop so you can still see the approaching bus and the driver can see you.

You still need to maintain a minimum distance to allow wheelchair / pram / shopping trollies access.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

You still need to maintain a minimum distance to allow wheelchair / pram / shopping trollies access.

Just set the shelter back from the street enough and there'd be no problem.

Flukey

Then you might stop them getting around the back of it, for passersby.

murphaph

Flukey wrote:

Then you might stop them getting around the back of it, for passersby.

Ok, how about only setting it back a couple of feet if there's room? :rolleyes:
If not, tough, bust stop stays where it is without additional panel etc. Clearly you can only do what you can do in the space provided. It'll be different for each location.

Victor

... or let people climb into private property or they block shop fronts .....

monument

BuffyBot wrote:

They don't need specific branding - that's on the vehicles. What you do need is an easily identifible stopping place..just one. Look at London - none of they stops there are branded with the operator logos, just a TfL roundel. The buses have the logos of the seperate companies.

Exactly. Dublin needs a proper transport authority.

Whether it is a transport authority that just brands the public transport and ticket systems [realistic?]… or one that also plans, and coordinators all transport [in a 100 years time?]… [URL=
http://www.mta.net/about_us/default.htm ]or one that also[/URL] designs, builds, and operates most of it (which offers people the little touches like bicycle racks on buss, to a free ‘get-you-running-or-off-the-motorway’ service) [pipe dream!]... Sorry, I’m ranting about transport again.

And no, I'm not talking about the Railway Procurement Agency, that needs to be scraped ASAP. Why is integrated ticketing taking so long - look who is in charge.

John R

pork99 wrote:

Another poor feature of Dublin Bus stops are those "prayer wheel" timetables. They are only playthings for the anti-social street vermin chavster element to smash and/or burn to amuse their primitive brains.

They're the sort of thing that some design student would come up with and feel very clever and pleased with him/herself but as is often the case with design student's brilliant ideas in the real world about as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking contest.

I see that DB have started replacing them with more conventional and hopefuly more vandal proof flat displays.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Those cylindrical timetable displays are about the best anti-vandal displays ever made. Unlike the standard displays which have the information behind a perspex sheet which is easily vandalised and expensive to replace ragularly they just affix the bare time sheets to the outside of the display. It is just as easy to vandalise the printed sheet but is far easier and cheaper to replace.

The units themselves are very robust and require a considerable amount of force to break them, not having any edges makes it much more difficult for the casual scumbag to do any real damage. A heavy weapon and some time is needed to smash them up.

If you look closely at them you will probably see some green underneath the blue paint, many of them are the original ones put up 15 years ago, except in the worst of the worst areas they last years without needing repair.

You could argue that it is (slightly) easier to destroy the bare timetable sheets but realistically a marker or a knife will make any disisplay unreadable in seconds the big difference is that a 50c sticky paper sheet is more likely to be regularly replaced than a €10 perspex sheet.

More modern variations on the design are bigger and are triangular shaped with rounded edges so that much bigger sheets for maps, adverts, etc. can be used.

Third_Echelon

murphaph wrote:

They can read it from the timetable footnote. No need to advertise which operator runs a particular number bus. They can advertise on TV or on the sides of their buses etc.

it'd be good to know from afar what bus stopped at which stop. If I can see the operator logo from down the street I can know that this particular bus will stop there. Not all operators are going to stop at all stops...

murphaph wrote:

Eh, what are you on about? What's the difference between that scenario and today when exactly the same thing happens with multiple operators all putting up their signs at the same shelter, it's just a matter of removing the actual poles and signs from a single stp and replacing them with ONE sign that says 'BUS STOP'.

see above^^^

murphaph wrote:

I wasn't talking at all about this scenario in my original post but I stand by the above, if a stop already exists, one should not be erected 50m down the road by another operator, just adding to street clutter and giving passengers poorer connection possibilities (bloke waits for bus x at stop y, sees bus z which is also good for him and has to do a 50 yard dash to stop k, stupid!)

A signpost isnt exactly 'street clutter'... If he can see the operator sign, he can know which stop to stand at. He's not going to miss his bus then..

Well if he stays at that stop hes going to get his bus anyway, so running for bus z would be a bit silly in fairness..

murphaph wrote:

Did you bother to read my post? I said NO BRANDING including BAC, just a sign that says 'BUS STOP'. Simple. Advertising is for the sides of buses and other acceptable places, no need to make every bus stop roundel into a mini-ad. Messy.

In a one-operator environment this would work ok, but knowing which operators stop at which stops is essential. People dont read small print timetables at a stop. If you see the operator logo, you know that your bus will stop here.

Victor

Third_Echelon wrote:

If you see the operator logo, you know that your bus will stop here.

Then consumers need to be made agnostic towards the operator and pick the route. Afterall, getting the (Dublin Bus) 18 from Rathmines will land you in a very different place from the (Dublin Bus) 15 from the same stop.

The customer need to pick route number not operator. What happens when Aircoash start operating from say, Tallaght? Are you still going to go for the big blue and orange coach?

murphaph

Third_Echelon wrote:

it'd be good to know from afar what bus stopped at which stop. If I can see the operator logo from down the street I can know that this particular bus will stop there. Not all operators are going to stop at all stops...

You see a BAC logo on 99.9% of bus stops in the city now-it tells you precisely nothing about what stops there, apart from a bus operated by BAC, could be a 37, 38A/B/C, 39, 70 etc. etc. You use route numbers and tmetables, not operator names to establish what bus to board!

Third_Echelon wrote:

A signpost isnt exactly 'street clutter'... If he can see the operator sign, he can know which stop to stand at. He's not going to miss his bus then..

An unnecessarry signpost is street clutter and if there was one stop he'd automatically be standing at the right one

Third_Echelon wrote:

Well if he stays at that stop hes going to get his bus anyway, so running for bus z would be a bit silly in fairness..

It wouldn't be necessarry to run for anything if the second/third operator just used the same stop as the existing one and added their timetable to the stop info board.I get the feeling you don't take the bus too often by your assumption that the bus he's waiting for will turn up (on time at any rate).

Third_Echelon wrote:

In a one-operator environment this would work ok, but knowing which operators stop at which stops is essential. People dont read small print timetables at a stop. If you see the operator logo, you know that your bus will stop here.

No you don't mate. Can I go to any BAC/Dualway etc. bus stop and expect every route operated by BAC/Dualway etc. to stop at a stop with their logo? Course not-you'd be a fair while waiting for a 46A in Blanchardstown!!
Go to some other cty and see what I (and others here) are telling you-multiple operators share bus stops all the time (in London for example) and no mention is made on the roundel, just the route numbers are listed with perhaps a small footnote.

John R

BuffyBot wrote:

They don't need specific branding - that's on the vehicles. What you do need is an easily identifible stopping place..just one. Look at London - none of they stops there are branded with the operator logos, just a TfL roundel. The buses have the logos of the seperate companies.

That is fine in London as ALL the operators essentially are working for TFL who set all the service parameters. It does not matter what operator is running the bus as the same fare structure applies, the season tickets are valid on all services equally and the timetables are set and monitored by one central organisation.

In Dublin, DB have one structure which is uniform across all their services and every other operator has an entirely different fare structure, none accept each others tickets and timetable production and presentation is haphazard at best. It is currently essential for passengers to know who is operating the bus they are trying to board in Dublin.

Just for the record I am all in favour of the TFL style organisation being adopted here but I can't see it happening with the current miserable lot in power (I am pretty sceptical about any of the rest having the will or intelligence to implement such positive changes either). It is an expensive process, will take time to set up and would trample over alot of powerful central government, local government and civil service quangos.

Third_Echelon

murphaph wrote:

You see a BAC logo on 99.9% of bus stops in the city now-it tells you precisely nothing about what stops there, apart from a bus operated by BAC, could be a 37, 38A/B/C, 39, 70 etc. etc. You use route numbers and tmetables, not operator names to establish what bus to board!

Yes, but with the private operator routes you usually know before-hand which bus and route you are going to take.

murphaph wrote:

It wouldn't be necessarry to run for anything if the second/third operator just used the same stop as the existing one and added their timetable to the stop info board.I get the feeling you don't take the bus too often by your assumption that the bus he's waiting for will turn up (on time at any rate).

I take a combination of private operator and dublin bus every day of the week to and from work. I know my routes and what bus stop to stand at. Now the stop that I get on at doesnt have a private operator sign. Its a Dublin Bus stop, but the private bus stops there.

murphaph wrote:

No you don't mate. Can I go to any BAC/Dualway etc. bus stop and expect every route operated by BAC/Dualway etc. to stop at a stop with their logo? Course not-you'd be a fair while waiting for a 46A in Blanchardstown!!

Thats not what I meant. You obviously need a combination of the two. My point was that a timetable only, from afar, isnt going to let a person know that a Dualway is going to stop there... of course you need a timetable as well to show the route and times :rolleyes:

murphaph wrote:

Go to some other cty and see what I (and others here) are telling you-multiple operators share bus stops all the time (in London for example) and no mention is made on the roundel, just the route numbers are listed with perhaps a small footnote.

I've been to many cities around the world and have seen this. Thats because they have organisation and route numbers are established and then bus companies are assigned to the route or whatever way they work it. Obviously Dublin bus and the other operators would have to establish a system to set this up, but at the moment their own stops are necessary.

murphaph

Third_Echelon wrote:

I take a combination of private operator and dublin bus every day of the week to and from work. I know my routes and what bus stop to stand at. Now the stop that I get on at doesnt have a private operator sign. Its a Dublin Bus stop, but the private bus stops there.

And you seem to manage just fine getting to work. I rest my case.

Third_Echelon

Yes, but the bus starts at its own 'private operator' stop on westmoreland st and has them along the way as well. It just happens the one i get on at on wood quay doesn't have its sign there.

Having a load of buses stopping in the one area so close to each other also brings up the 'bus that is stopped blocking a hail down hand signal from someone at the bus stop issue'. This has happened to me so many times on dame st for example. I can see my bus coming, then another bus pulls in and blocks me and my hand signal to get the bus i need to stop. The stops should be more spread out along dame st especially.

pork99

John R wrote:

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

OK I'll try

John R wrote:

The units themselves are very robust and require a considerable amount of force to break them, not having any edges makes it much more difficult for the casual scumbag to do any real damage. A heavy weapon and some time is needed to smash them up....

You could argue that it is (slightly) easier to destroy the bare timetable sheets but realistically a marker or a knife will make any disisplay unreadable in seconds the big difference is that a 50c sticky paper sheet is more likely to be regularly replaced than a €10 perspex sheet.

Fair enough. I'm only going by my own impression that about 50% of the time I go to consult one its burned, cracked open, sticky sheet torn off or any combination of these.

It's a tough one. Maybe the long term solution is some sort of projected display like the "head up" displays fighter pilots have in their cockpits?

Or engraved on blast-proof steel.

John R

murphaph wrote:

And you seem to manage just fine getting to work. I rest my case.

And screw anyone that doesn't have local knowledge of where each bus stops.

That is pretty much the way most of the small Licensed/Unlicensed/"travel club" coach operators around the country work.

The League of Gentlemen approach to public transport. A local service for local people (going to Dublin).

murphaph

John R wrote:

And screw anyone that doesn't have local knowledge of where each bus stops.

Like I said in POST NUMBER 1, put the route numbers and timetables of all services servicing that stop with maps if needs be. No need for a big UrBus sign to boot. For the record, my local BAC stop needs just as much 'local knowledge' as there are no timetables and buses run to all over the city from it. You'd need a local service guide to use it and it's only served by one operator.

John R

Third_Echelon wrote:

Yes, but the bus starts at its own 'private operator' stop on westmoreland st and has them along the way as well. It just happens the one i get on at on wood quay doesn't have its sign there.

Having a load of buses stopping in the one area so close to each other also brings up the 'bus that is stopped blocking a hail down hand signal from someone at the bus stop issue'. This has happened to me so many times on dame st for example. I can see my bus coming, then another bus pulls in and blocks me and my hand signal to get the bus i need to stop. The stops should be more spread out along dame st especially.

It'll be worse on Dame Street soon enough as DCC are kicking all the Dublin Bus Termini off Eden Quay because they will ruin the atmosphere of their new boardwalk. So there will likely be many more people waiting on Dame St for the Tallaght buses.

John R

murphaph wrote:

Like I said in POST NUMBER 1, put the route numbers and timetables of all services servicing that stop with maps if needs be. No need for a big UrBus sign to boot. For the record, my local BAC stop needs just as much 'local knowledge' as there are no timetables and buses run to all over the city from it. You'd need a local service guide to use it and it's only served by one operator.

Really the system needs to be properly managed from the top down, the daft state of bus stop poles is just one tiny part of the problem.

To fix the bus stops without sorting out the random selection of routes/operators using them into one integrated public service would be lunacy imo.

John R

pork99 wrote:

Fair enough. I'm only going by my own impression that about 50% of the time I go to consult one its burned, cracked open, sticky sheet torn off or any combination of these.

It's a tough one. Maybe the long term solution is some sort of projected display like the "head up" displays fighter pilots have in their cockpits?

Or engraved on blast-proof steel.

The'd just rip them out of the ground and throw at the passing bus.


The only long term solution is to get the scum element under some control, vandalism is not going to be eradicated but currently they have free reign to do whatever they like with little chance of being caught and no chance of getting proper punishment either way.

I don't know if the figures would make it self-financing in Dublin but something like this seems like a good idea. If the revenues are derived from the bus stops then there is a much bigger incentive to keep them in good order. The Adshel contracts might not allow other bus stop adverts though.

murphaph

John R wrote:

Really the system needs to be properly managed from the top down, the daft state of bus stop poles is just one tiny part of the problem.

To fix the bus stops without sorting out the random selection of routes/operators using them into one integrated public service would be lunacy imo.

Like I also said in POST NUMBER 1;

I know all this is probably light years away (not before a Dublin transit authority is established with real teeth to get these separate operators and knock skulls together to get a coherent public transport system for Dublin).

Clearly we need much more than just fixing ridiculous multiple bus stops, but it would be something they would have to do and as this rant was just about that facet of Dublin's public transport shambles, that's all I addressed. We all know we need zonal based integrated fares across all operators, etc. etc.

Victor

pork99 wrote:

Or engraved on blast-proof steel.

Or included in the back of the phonebook / independent directory / timetable in shop window / local service guide / internet / BusTxt .....

daymobrew

Victor wrote:

Or included in the back of the phonebook / independent directory / timetable in shop window / local service guide / internet / BusTxt .....

or on your Palm or Pocket PC.

no chance of getting proper punishment either way.

Last year a few 12 year olds were smashing bus shelter glass at Clontarf Rd DART station (using one of those pointed hammers - quick tap and sheet of glass just drops).
I grabbed one and brought him into the DART station and to the ticket guy. I then headed off for my train.
The next day I rang Clontarf Gardi to follow up (in case they needed a witness). It turned out that the kid was crying, saying his dad would kill him, so the ticket muppet let him go!!

I think his dad should have been allow to give him a beating. And then he should have been forced to pay for the glass.
Payment to the victim should be part of all punishments, before any prison time (e.g. nick and burn out a car - buy a replacement car so victim's no-claims isn't lost).