[Article]Dublin pub murder suspect linked to O’Snodaigh and Sinn Féin

MT

SF man chief suspect in killing

Jim Cusack

THE chief suspect in the murder of a man in a Dublin pub last Sunday night is a well-known IRA man who doubles as a Sinn Fein election activist and has worked for TD Aengus O Snodaigh.

Seven of O Snodaigh's other election workers were jailed for IRA membership last November and December after gardai thwarted an attempted lorry hijacking and uncovered an IRA spying ring aimed at Dail members.

Detectives investigating the murder of Jim Curran were yesterday searching for the suspect who, local people say, disappeared from the area immediately after the killing.

According to local people, the Sinn Fein activist is highly placed in the republican organisation and is close friends with Pearse McCauley, one of the men convicted of the manslaughter of Det Garda Jerry McCabe. Another close associate is former IRA prisoner Nessan Quinlivan who was extradited to Britain on explosives charges in the Nineties.

Yesterday, detectives investigating the murder raided a house belonging to a SF election worker in their search for the chief suspect.

Three people were arrested and released after questioning during the week and gardai are understood to have received a number of eye witness statements to the incident in which Mr Curran, 47, a father of one, was shot in the head at point blank range.

Local people said Mr Curran had gone to the Green Lizard pub for a quiet drink. He had been involved in a dispute with an IRA man. A man in his mid-40s who had been drinking in the pub calmly walked up behind Mr Curran and shot him three times in full view of about 30 people. The man then walked out.

Mr Curran had previously spoken out about the fact that local IRA figures were involved in taking "protection" money from well-known drug dealers in the south inner city. In return for these payments the IRA allow the dealers to continue with their evil business.

Unlike the murder of Robert McCartney by the IRA in Belfast, a number of witnesses have come forward.

Sunday Independent 10th April, 2005

Now as this is from the evil, West Brit, covert Unionist, self-hating, anti-Irish, false conscience riddled, securocrat infiltrated, MI5 mouthpiece, ‘peace process’ undermining - and any other republican inspired epithet you care to insert – Sunday Independent, this story will be dismissed out of hand by many an apologist.

However, for those of us fortunate enough not to exist in the parallel universe known as the Provo space-time continuum, you’ve really got to wonder at the sort of company poor Aengus keeps. I mean when they’re not holding Garda fancy dress parties in election vans with a bit of bdsm thrown in for good measure, one of his associate is out murdering in a pub. What is it with the IRA and violent boozers anyway – maybe Sinn Féin are researching new solutions to Ireland’s binge drinking problem? Your Miller or your life?

What’s very interesting about this latest slaying is the connection with drug money. If a link between the party and protection money paid by dealers gains traction, Gerry’s ‘peace man’ tag could take on a whole new meaning.

If nothing else, we now know what Sinn Féin would have voted for instead of plastic bullets had they taken their seats on the north’s policing board. ‘Lads, lads, you wanna discipline a crowd of protestors… no problem,’ ‘just look at how our own community policing units put down the uppity Robert McCartney and Jim Curran.’ Put down permanently, that is.

Yeah, this bunch are definitely a government in waiting. O’Snodaigh for Justice Minister anyone?

Stabshauptmann

MT wrote:

Now as this is from the evil, West Brit, covert Unionist, self-hating, anti-Irish, false conscience riddled, securocrat infiltrated, MI5 mouthpiece, ‘peace process’ undermining - and any other republican inspired epithet you care to insert – Sunday Independent, this story will be dismissed out of hand by many an apologist.

Then why bother posting it

Do you want this thread to deal with
A)The Indo
B)Sf links to the IRA
C)IRA activity
D)Sf policy, especially plastic bullets
or E) just petty name calling and a good old Shinner bashing session?

A) belongs on another forum, has its own thread atm, and D) had one recently.

A thread on C), ongoing IRA activity and the viability of the peace process might be interesting.

pork99

What's interesting about this story is that down here it's the criminal who is avoiding the police and hiding under a rock somewhere as witnesses are not afraid to talk to the police.

In the Robert McCartney case it's almost the other way around with the criminals going to the police (though saying nothing beyond their names and addresses) and the witnesses going into hiding/keeping their mouths shut.

Is this is the sort of carry-on you support if you vote for Sinn Fein?:

THE Liberties in Dublin is like the Markets area of Belfast in more ways that one.

Both areas have a tradition of street and market trading; both are close knit communities; both areas have populations that have endured economic hardship and have populations that are renowned for their enterprise and endurance.

Both areas are also afflicted by crime and drugs - and both areas have local mafias who believe they can kill with impunity. In both areas, the local mafia is the IRA.

The similarities are not only broad, they are particular. On Sunday, January 30, the IRA in the Markets area killed Robert McCartney, a father of two boys who happened to have incurred the wrath of the local IRA boss. The murder happened outside a packed pub.

Last Sunday, the head of the IRA in the Liberties shot dead Jim Curran, a well-respected local man and father-of-one who was also unafraid of the IRA mafia. The murder also happened in a pub where the IRA in the area were drinking.

The reason for Mr Curran's murder is unclear. However, it is known that the IRA boss - who doubles as a Sinn Fein election worker - hated the 42-year-old champion kickboxer.

Neighbours said it is possible that Mr Curran had taunted the IRA men for taking money from heroin dealers.

There was an incident in another pub in the area after Christmas, in which two IRA members were similarly taunted for openly taking cash from heroin dealers. Gardai are trying to establish if it was Mr Curran who taunted two IRA men, both of whom were former leading "anti-drugs" vigilantes in the south inner city.

Whatever the reason, Jim Curran made the fatal mistake of going for a quiet drink in the Green Lizard pub last Sunday night, apparently oblivious to the fact that there was a small group of IRA men on the premises.

According to local people, one of the IRA men left shortly after Curran entered the bar and returned about half an hour later. It is believed he went off to collect a gun and delivered it to the head of the IRA in the area, who had been drinking in the bar.

The IRA boss then calmly got up out of his seat, walked up behind Jim Curran and shot him in the head. He then fired another two shots into his head as he lay slumped on the floor.

The IRA man made no attempt to conceal his identity. He walked from the bar and went into hiding.

As in the case of Robert McCartney's murder outside Magennis's bar in Belfast city centre, almost everyone in the Liberties knows what happened in the Green Lizard last Sunday night.

Unlike Belfast, however, the people of the Liberties are prepared to speak. Although gardai will not confirm if they have witnesses at this stage, it is understood they have eye-witness evidence that could lead to an arrest and charge.

Last Monday, gardai arrested an associate of the IRA man who was known to have been in the bar, but it is understood he told them he saw nothing. A female relative of the IRA man was also arrested. Both were later released without charge.

Another suspected eye witness was arrested on Friday morning as gardai searched for the murder weapon, which has still to be found.

The murder of a popular figure like Jim Curran has exposed what people in the Liberties say is a local IRA which has turned into a crime syndicate. They say the IRA men responsible are, like the members of the gang that killed Mr McCartney, "scum".

One woman said that the weekend before Mr Curran was murdered, the local IRA boss had groped a girl in the Green Lizard and had then made an issue of offering an apology which he felt was not accepted properly.

"He's filth," the woman said, adding that the IRA boss and his gang, including members of his immediate family, have terrorised the local community for a generation.

"They're called the hammer gang, here," she said, a reference used by other community members, and which relates to the belief that the IRA man and his henchmen used hammers to attack victims.

The IRA boss is loathed and feared in equal measure. Ten years ago he led a gang which attacked and savagely beat his own sister after her son was accused of dealing drugs. They beat the woman mercilessly, fracturing her ribs.

He is also reputed to have tortured a young local woman - again accused of drug dealing - with a lighter. The woman and her partner were forced out of their home, which was subsequently handed over to another well-known IRA figure.

The IRA man who shot Jim Curran is said to have become rich through providing "protection" for selected and well-known drug dealers.

His nephew - the same man whose mother was beaten - is a one of the biggest drug dealers in the south inner city, and plies his trade with apparent impunity. The IRA in the Liberties has switched from anti-drugs activism to "protectors" of drug dealers, in the same way that the Provos in the North have changed from full-time terrorists to full-time gangsters.

During the Eighties, south Dublin vigilantes terrorised local drug addicts and dealers, eventually killing a six-stone, HIV-infected addict, Josey Dwyer, in a drink-fuelled mob beating.

Twelve men were arrested but after Dwyer's best friend and witness to the killing, Alan Byrne, was shot in the back, other witnesses backed off for fear of their lives.

Byrne survived to testify but subsequently had to leave Dublin because of well-founded fears he would be murdered. Only three of the accused received jails sentences, one for manslaughter and two for violent disorder.

Sinn Fein party leaders Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness visited the area after the killing of Dwyer and attended a meeting in a local community hall.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1373957&issue_id=12319

Lemming

Interesting amount of "coindicental" attachments to drug-dealing going on here. Something I think that SF/IRA will try and deny vehemently and/or attempt to deflect from since it will destroy most of their current support base in the Republic which was built upon the "pushers out" campaign they orchestrated.

Cork

MT wrote:

Yeah, this bunch are definitely a government in waiting. O’Snodaigh for Justice Minister anyone?

The Shinners will look for evidence and blame the Indo.

As if having links to the criminal IRA was not bad enough.

MT

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Then why bother posting it

So that the rest of us that aren't taken in by SF propaganda can digest what's amounts to yet another horrific example of this movement's threat to democracy.

As for the rest of your post, it appears as if you've indulged a bout of sophistry to avoid the issue in its entirety.

When an article highlights the link between a SF TD, the prime suspect in a brutal murder and the connection to the crime of the armed wing both are closely associated with there's really only one thing above all else that should be discussed - just how close is the link between Sinn Féin and the IRA.

Apologists would have us believe they're two entirely separate organisations. But with the mounting evidence of the party’s close connection to the Northern Bank robbery, its members involvement in and subsequent cover up of the McCartney murder and now this, do such denials really hold up?

In this instance a man has been murdered seemingly for daring to criticise the local ‘Ra. And who has apparently carried out this despicable deed, not just any republican foot soldier but the head of the area’s IRA wing. A man – the head of the local ‘Ra unit keep in mind – it now transpires was formerly employed by Sinn Féin's very own Aengus O'Snodaigh (as he never heard of a background check?) Or is it the case that Mr O'Snodaigh knew full well what his budding activist got up to in the evenings. And clearly if the TD had any knowledge of these extracurricular activities he must have shared it with his party branch. At best we could presume they turned a blind eye.

But then A O'S would appear to have form when it comes to involving gangsters in his politicking. Just cast your mind back to the electioneering van and the hoods with the Garda uniforms, axe handles and his grinning posters. Thankfully, unlike this murderer they're now behind bars. However, could these two incidents be more than an unfortunate recruitment coincidence for Aengus? Even more than a still appalling case of wilful ignorance? Could it actually be the case that the bold Aengus and SF are availing of the services of a certain private army to consolidate the party's grip on the areas it controls... sorry, where it holds seats? Is it the case that Sinn Féin and the IRA are so entwined in each others activities that they are simply two sides of the same coin? Furthermore, it looks as if they either can’t or have no intention of severing their ties if the latest string of events is anything to go by.

Any chance you’d like to discuss the blindingly obvious issue this article raises?

As for what thread this article should appear in, that’s nothing more than a side issue. If the mods feel it needs to be moved then they’ll move it. What I would suggest, however, is that this story may well develop into other areas – such as drugs – and besides, the links with a dodgy TD are surely of enough gravity for it to merit its own thread.

AmenToThat

MT wrote:

Now as this is from the evil, West Brit, covert Unionist, self-hating, anti-Irish, false conscience riddled, securocrat infiltrated, MI5 mouthpiece, ‘peace process’ undermining - and any other republican inspired epithet you care to insert – Sunday Independent, this story will be dismissed out of hand by many an apologist.

At last something we can agree on.
Its worth noting that your darling the Justice minister also dismissed any link to the Republican movement tonight.

shltter

Michael McDowell said it was not an IRA operation although gardaí believed the suspected killer was a former IRA man.

The minister said that in this case the gardaí were receiving good co-operation

former IRA man rte radio said the cheif suspect is believed to be a dissident republican

perhaps SF are responsible for people no longer associated with the republican movement lets hope prionsas de rossa doesn't get into any trouble or the Rabbitte for that matter

shltter

MT wrote:

Any chance you’d like to discuss the blindingly obvious issue this article raises?

.

what is blindingly obvious is that these stories make no sense they contradict themselves as well as each other

he killed him over a drug allegation no it was over molesting a girl no he beats to death drug addicts and takes money from drug dealers but is so anti drugs that he nearly killed his own sister because his nephew was dealing drugs on and on this bull **** goes


of course we also have the fact that this guy manages to be the local IRA leader at the same time as he is a former IRA member and a dissident republican that is quite a feat

then we get the usual he is a friend of the killers of garda jerry mccabe dont forget to include that old chestnut and above all try and find some excuse to drop the names adams and mcguinness into the story no matter how vague or irrelevant

and of course fill it with local people say and local sources and this woman said and that woman said and the other man said report it all as if it was fact

yes this is the independents excuse for journalism forget the facts if they dont agree with the story and of course just make **** up

Mighty_Mouse

The Shinners will look for evidence

how underhanded of them

Hairy Homer

MT wrote:

Now as this is from the evil, West Brit, covert Unionist, self-hating, anti-Irish, false conscience riddled, securocrat infiltrated, MI5 mouthpiece, ‘peace process’ undermining - and any other republican inspired epithet you care to insert – Sunday Independent

But it is.

You don't have to be a republican, in the sense that term is understood in this island, to concur with your penetrating analysis.

MT wrote:

However, for those of us fortunate enough not to exist in the parallel universe known as the Provo space-time continuum, you’ve really got to wonder

Now you're talking 'Crazy Talk'

MT wrote:

this bunch are definitely a government in waiting. O’Snodaigh for Justice Minister anyone?

Just don't vote for the buffoon. I'm not going to.

Cork

Mighty_Mouse wrote:

how underhanded of them

I did not say it was under handed to look for evidence.

SF reponses are akin to auto replies?

When did SF stop their opposition of getting into the politics of condemnation?

Why can't they condemn the IRA?

Their responses are predictable.

Mighty_Mouse

I did not say it was under handed to look for evidence.

I'm glad you fully support the calls for evidence so.

Why can't they condemn the IRA?

Because they agree with them.

I hate to be the one to break it to you Cork, but every SF politician actually supported the armed-struggle.

Why would somebody condem something they agree with? Anyways whats the point in SF comdeming the IRA for the sake of an Indo headline?

Their responses are predictable.

As are yours Cork, .......... as are yours!!

hill16

Does every middle class poster on this board believe everything they read.

mycroft

hill16 wrote:

Does every middle class poster on this board believe everything they read.

Compared to the bull**** detector they install on all working class babys born in the comb. You have to be means tested though.

AmenToThat

Cork wrote:

I did not say it was under handed to look for evidence.

SF reponses are akin to auto replies?

When did SF stop their opposition of getting into the politics of condemnation?

Why can't they condemn the IRA?

Their responses are predictable.

As is the response of the 'anti SF Jihadi's' on this board.
While this murder is a horrific event and life changing for the family involved this story has nothing to do with SF yet you continue to flog a dead horse.
Of you want to talk about a specific aspect of SF policy why not start a thread on it instead of trying to continue the agrument on a thread where even your beloved Minister for Justice has said there is no case to answer for the Republican movement.

mycroft

AmenToThat wrote:

As is the response of the 'anti SF Jihadi's' on this board.
While this murder is a horrific event and life changing for the family involved this story has nothing to do with SF yet you continue to flog a dead horse.
Of you want to talk about a specific aspect of SF policy why not start a thread on it instead of trying to continue the agrument on a thread where even your beloved Minister for Justice has said there is no case to answer for the Republican movement.

Senior SF members have given dubious statements about their timeframe during the the murder. The family have stated that they faced intimidation tonight from SF and IRA members this night during the night. And a major suspect was parading a few foot away from Adams as a steward during Rising ceremonies. Seriously dettol need to contact the republican movement, beecause republican movements have this amazing hand washing action which means you can be republican without defending terrorist activity.

pork99

AmenToThat wrote:

As is the response of the 'anti SF Jihadi's' on this board.
While this murder is a horrific event and life changing for the family involved this story has nothing to do with SF yet you continue to flog a dead horse.
Of you want to talk about a specific aspect of SF policy why not start a thread on it instead of trying to continue the agrument on a thread where even your beloved Minister for Justice has said there is no case to answer for the Republican movement.

Personally I've nothing against Sinn Fein as such. Don't agree with all their policies but that's irrelevant. I am disturbed that a party participating in democratic politics in this country has persistently been shown to have close links with murderers, bank robbers, extortionists etc.

While we've recently heard (and welcomed) fine words from Gerry along the lines of "it's time they went away you know", let's see some actual action along those lines.

AmenToThat

pork99 wrote:

Personally I've nothing against Sinn Fein as such. Don't agree with all their policies but that's irrelevant. I am disturbed that a party participating in democratic politics in this country has persistently been shown to have close links with murderers, bank robbers, extortionists etc.

While we've recently heard (and welcomed) fine words from Gerry along the lines of "it's time they went away you know", let's see some actual action along those lines.

Thats all well and good but as I have said it has nothing to do with this case.
There was no Republican involvment in this case so as much as it pains the 'Jihadi's' on this forum there is no smoke and no fire.

On a personal level I find Im visiting this web site less and less in recent weeks as even the slightest snip by the Indo and certian others without any clear evidence seems to develop into a full scale argument that becomes childish and personal in nature (and yes I include myself in that catagory as well) this thread being a rather typical example of what has been happening on this board.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

Senior SF members have given dubious statements about their timeframe during the the murder. The family have stated that they faced intimidation tonight from SF and IRA members this night during the night. And a major suspect was parading a few foot away from Adams as a steward during Rising ceremonies. Seriously dettol need to contact the republican movement, beecause republican movements have this amazing hand washing action which means you can be republican without defending terrorist activity.

are you talkling about the murder in a dublin pub that this thread is about

Victor

mycroft wrote:

Compared to the bull**** detector they install on all working class babys born in the co[o]mb[e].

Obviously with a name like that he was born in the Rotunda :rolleyes:

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

are you talkling about the murder in a dublin pub that this thread is about

Other people mentioned Mc Cartney. I was merely commenting on that. It's clear by now Angus keeps his campaign staff on a very long leash.

Obviously with a name like that he was born in the Rotunda

Smartarse.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

Other people mentioned Mc Cartney. I was merely commenting on that. It's clear by now Angus keeps his campaign staff on a very long leash.

the post you were replying to was just about the killing in dublin no mention of mccartney

mycroft

cdebru wrote:

the post you were replying to was just about the killing in dublin no mention of mccartney

I was drawing a parallel.

We're a week or so into this investigation.

Getting on a high horse about SF/IRA member involvement in an IRA related pub shooting, may be a tad premature, if you'd care to cast your mind back oh, three months ago, onto how the Mc Cartney death unrraveled and SF backpeddled.

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

I was drawing a parallel.

We're a week or so into this investigation.

Getting on a high horse about SF/IRA member involvement in an IRA related pub shooting, may be a tad premature, if you'd care to cast your mind back oh, three months ago, onto how the Mc Cartney death unrraveled and SF backpeddled.

except there is no parallel

the indo tried to build one but mccdowell pulled the rug out from underneath them

A Dub in Glasgo

mycroft wrote:

I was drawing a parallel.

What parallel??

A tangent more like

mycroft

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What parallel??

A tangent more like

It would if there wasn't a group of IRA men done with a selection of posters for a certain candidate.

But far be it for me to drag a thread about an IRA related murder off topic.

I just think it's ironic that less than three months since this IRA Mc Cartney murder and the time frame post the Mc Cartney murder and SF's back peddling and re clarification of it's position really does mean, that I think, a certain section of this board needs to just look back to the the statements in early january before they get on their high horse about "loose" allegations. And maybe they should let the facts play out before they get indignant.

Incidently

Amen to that wrote:

Its worth noting that your darling the Justice minister also dismissed any link to the Republican movement tonight.

it's worth noticing you've been quick to dismiss McDowells opinion on everything for the past few months. Now you're taking his word as fact.

Villain

Apart from an article in the Indo I haven't seen anything to link the IRA to this murder.

Rock Climber

irish1 wrote:

Apart from an article in the Indo I haven't seen anything to link the IRA to this murder.

but you havent seen anything other than the words of Adams and McGuinness(who lied before) that they aren't on the IRA army council either,yet you believe them.
A little consistency in your attitude to proof wouldnt go astray.

Villain

Rock Climber wrote:

but you havent seen anything other than the words of Adams and McGuinness(who lied before) that they aren't on the IRA army council either,yet you believe them.
A little consistency in your attitude to proof wouldnt go astray.

Theres a thread open for that Rock Climber feel free to post there, I'd be interested to see what lie of Martin McGuinness's your referring to.

All I was saying is that I haven't seen any other reports to support the thread title.

Are you going to follow me around boards all day and bash SF anytime I post?

cdebru

mycroft wrote:

It would if there wasn't a group of IRA men done with a selection of posters for a certain candidate. .

what does that mean and what does it have to do with this murder

mycroft wrote:

But far be it for me to drag a thread about an IRA related murder off topic. .

yes that would be very out of character for you

mycroft wrote:

I just think it's ironic that less than three months since this IRA Mc Cartney murder and the time frame post the Mc Cartney murder and SF's back peddling and re clarification of it's position really does mean, that I think, a certain section of this board needs to just look back to the the statements in early january before they get on their high horse about "loose" allegations. And maybe they should let the facts play out before they get indignant. .

perhaps you should take your own advice and let the facts play out before jumping to conclusions and trying to draw parallels

mycroft wrote:

Incidently



it's worth noticing you've been quick to dismiss McDowells opinion on everything for the past few months. Now you're taking his word as fact.

the fact that mcdowell is so anti republican makes his statement that there was no involvement more credible because if there was even a hint of involvement mcdowell would be first in line to tell everyone about it

irish1

irish1 wrote:

Theres a thread open for that Rock Climber feel free to post there, I'd be interested to see what lie of Martin McGuinness's your referring to.

All I was saying is that I haven't seen any other reports to support the thread title.

Are you going to follow me around boards all day and bash SF anytime I post?

Steady on there Irish1,I've only seen 2 posts to the most current threads from that poster so far, hardly stalking.

Also it is a valid point ie consistency between threads.I'd like to see it with all posters.
If you take just one item as your "proof" of what you believe in one thread and then go into another and discount some other poster for doing the same, you are being inconsistent and frankly harming your own stance.

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Steady on there Irish1,I've only seen 2 posts to the most current threads from that poster so far, hardly stalking.

Also it is a valid point ie consistency between threads.I'd like to see it with all posters.
If you take just one item as your "proof" of what you believe in one thread and then go into another and discount some other poster for doing the same, you are being inconsistent and frankly harming your own stance.

FFS Earthman all I said was that I hadn't seen anything other than an article in the Anti-SF Indo to support this claim, I never said the IRA wasn't involved just seekng more information to use to form an opinion, now if you want to compare that to someone accusing men of lying and not providing evidence to back up claim, good for you. But trying to draw comparisions is just plain silly.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

just seekng more information to use to form an opinion,

Well you'll have to agree that looking for that here to form an opinion and not looking for it in your own"poll" thread when you form a belief just on the word of those you are believing without any further evidence is indicative of a large measure of inconsistency.
Bonkey took you up on that in the other thread and you resorted to stating your belief again,based on one thing only, what Adams and McGuinnes said.
Don't get me wrong,I've every respect for your belief, but when you state that your formation of it is based on just one thing, it would be consistent not to discount others who do the same.

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Well you'll have to agree that looking for that here to form an opinion and not looking for it in your own"poll" thread when you form a belief just on the word of those you are believing without any further evidence is indicative of a large measure of inconsistency.
Bonkey took you up on that in the other thread and you resorted to stating your belief again,based on one thing only, what Adams and McGuinnes said.
Don't get me wrong,I've every respect for your belief, but when you state that your formation of it is based on just one thing, it would be consistent not to discount others who do the same.

Yes but earthman the people being accused in that situation have denied the claims, all we have here is story in the indo, no other claims of IRA involvement and I believe Mr McDowell dismissed the claim, (didn't realise that until I read this thread so not sure how true that is)

I really don't see how you can compare one story in the indo to a rebuff by two SF leaders, also in this case I haven't even given my opinion, my only comment has been to say the only info I haven seen was in the INDO, hardly a opinion saying the IRA was or wasn't involved.

irish1

irish1 wrote:

I really don't see how you can compare one story in the indo to a rebuff by two SF leaders, also in this case I haven't even given my opinion, my only comment has been to say the only info I haven seen was in the INDO, hardly a opinion saying the IRA was or wasn't involved.

Come on now,Irish1 what did you mean by the post?
You seem to have clarified what you meant by the post in the bit below and shown exactly what I'm saying here-ie you display a lack of consistency in the proof you are willing to go on for one opinion you have on one thing vis a vis what you require for another-heres where you confirm this:

Yes but earthman the people being accused in that situation have denied the claims, all we have here is story in the indo, no other claims of IRA involvement and I believe Mr McDowell dismissed the claim, (didn't realise that until I read this thread so not sure how true that is)

You've clarified there that you are not satisfied with the articles in this thread, yet in the other thread you are satisfied with one piece of information to form your belief.
I'm not happy with these articles as proof of whatever either. But from your stand point, you are saying they're not enough, yet elsewhere, something somebody says without any tangible proof is good enough for your opinion on a different matter.
It's inconsistency, plain and simple and it's something from a debate point of view thats best avoided.

Villain

Earthman wrote:

Come on now,Irish1 what did you mean by the post?
You seem to have clarified what you meant by the post in the bit below and shown exactly what I'm saying here-ie you display a lack of consistency in the proof you are willing to go on for one opinion you have on one thing vis a vis what you require for another-heres where you confirm this:


You've clarified there that you are not satisfied with the articles in this thread, yet in the other thread you are satisfied with one piece of information to form your belief.
I'm not happy with these articles as proof of whatever either. But from your stand point, you are saying they're not enough, yet elsewhere, something somebody says without any tangible proof is good enough for your opinion on a different matter.
It's inconsistency, plain and simple and it's something from a debate point of view thats best avoided.

I don't believe it is inconsistency because I haven't stated that my opinion here, this murder could well have been carried out by the IRA or least a member of that organisation, I don't know because I don't enough information to form an opinion.

However in relation to Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness being members of the IRA Army Council, these men deny those claims and have stated that on many occasions, I support SF so I believe them when they say that and I will continue to believe that until I see evidence to prove otherwise and considering they haven't been arrested for membership and the Leader of this state says he doesn't know I believe thats a reasonable belief to hold. That is my opinion based on the information at hand.

IMO you are going on the belief that I believe the IRA weren't involved in this murder, which isn't true I know what the IRA is capable and they are certianly capable of killing a man in a Dublin pub, I just don't know whether or not in this case it was the IRA, I am no supporter of the IRA so why would I defend them here

mycroft

irish1 wrote:

However in relation to Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness being members of the IRA Army Council, these men deny those claims and have stated that on many occasions, I support SF so I believe them when they say that and I will continue to believe that until I see evidence to prove otherwise and considering they haven't been arrested for membership and the Leader of this state says he doesn't know I believe thats a reasonable belief to hold. That is my opinion based on the information at hand.

nifty so if I state "I support Tony O'Reilly" I can have this neat logic loophole to use in defense of the Indo?

monument

Cork wrote:

The Shinners will look for evidence and blame the Indo.

That's not really fair, is it? The article is from the Sindo, apparently the Indo isn’t still quite as bad.

Cork wrote:

SF reponses are akin to auto replies?

Where can one find the 'auto replies' settings on boards? It will make replying to your auto replies easer.