Work problems

I've been working as an IT Field Service Technician here for the last 3 years. I won't give the name of the company as its a small one and people will know who I am. I've been having some serious issues at work recently, one of which could have cost me my job, I'll tell that later.

Firstly, the boss wants to branch out into other areas. He's sending me up to Dublin on the 18th to do a training course in phone systems, switchboards and the like. He's also branching out into CCTV and alarm systems. Quite simply, I think its all beyond the scope of my job and I'm not one bit happy with the prospect that I could move from repairing PCs to installing alarms and security cameras. Also, most of the work we've been doing recently is networking in primary schools. Yes, that is within my job - it is IT, but I absolutely can't stand schools/teachers as they were the root of my misery as a child. He's getting a huge amount of money for these jobs, about €50 per hour, while I'm stuck getting €9 per hour, roughly €12,000 per year. I once cleaned a virus off a PC on site, a ten minute job, and he got €57 for the job (of which I would have got a measly €1.50 due to the hourly rate method).

My morale has been terrible as a result of all the above. I haven't been keeping up to date with the developments in the industry, which I should really be doing, but this was the bad bit:
On Tuesday we were in a primary school in Co. Limerick when I passed out a teacher in the corridor. I was a little too close to her when I passed by and I thought to myself "should have really said sorry there" but didn't think too much of it afterwards. But about five minutes later she came into the office and angrily told me "when you're passing someone in the corridors you could at least show some politeness." I believed she was trying to pick a fight and let rip into her, telling her to shut up and leave me alone. She complained to my boss who had to reason with me, but he was right to do so since I admit to being way out of line.

I want to leave and find something else, but I certainly don't want to leave if I've nothing else to go to. I've found it nearly impossible to get any other work in this area, most of which requires a driving licence. I'm 20 so there's no way I'm paying €4,000 on car insurance. But I do admit to being very bad at job-hunting. My ideal position would be doing maintenance/repairs in store, but I just want to know if my ambitions are too simple? Am I expecting to do too little in the job? Or am I right to believe that security is beyond the scope of an IT technician's job?

I suppose I'm just looking for some advice on how to deal with all this. Thanks.

Cabaal

I figure CCTV & alarm systems are fine provided you get a payrise.
In fairness at present your being paid crap...ever thinking of starting your own setup doing the same thing?

Gone West

Nothing wrong with good honest work installing CCTV. Its big business, mabye with a few years experience working this field, you might be able to start up your own CCTV/Alarm business.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Karsini wrote:

He's getting a huge amount of money for these jobs, about €50 per hour, while I'm stuck getting €9 per hour, roughly €12,000 per year. I once cleaned a virus off a PC on site, a ten minute job, and he got €57 for the job (of which I would have got a measly €1.50 due to the hourly rate method).

Doesn't that just make you sick?
It makes me sick just reading about it... but that's just how things are in the business world I guess... they want as much work out of you for as little money as they can give you.
This is why it makes sense to startup on your own, you get paid what you actually earn... it's a daunting prospect though, I still haven't plucked up the courage to do it.

The training doesn't sound that bad though really, you say you find it hard to find other IT work... it might be handy to have the whole CCTV/Alarm experience to fall back on down the road... is the cost of this training provided for by the company, or will you have to dig in to your own pocket to pay for expenses?

Gordon

I think this would be better in the Work forum.

Good luck

WhiteWashMan

Karsini wrote:

Quite simply, I think its all beyond the scope of my job and I'm not one bit happy with the prospect that I could move from repairing PCs to installing alarms and security cameras. .

so, you think you should be paid more to do the exact same thing you have always done?
hes wiling to give you trinaing, and youre complaining because of what exactly? its not a PC, but a camera?
im not sure what your problem is really

Karsini wrote:

Also, most of the work we've been doing recently is networking in primary schools. Yes, that is within my job - it is IT, but I absolutely can't stand schools/teachers as they were the root of my misery as a child. He's getting a huge amount of money for these jobs, about €50 per hour, while I'm stuck getting €9 per hour, roughly €12,000 per year. I once cleaned a virus off a PC on site, a ten minute job, and he got €57 for the job (of which I would have got a measly €1.50 due to the hourly rate method).

ah, but you are an employee, and what the company earns, is none of your business.
if you feel you can do it, why dont you go out and set up your own business?

i mean, you appear to know it all, so it should be no problem for you at all...

Karsini wrote:

My morale has been terrible as a result of all the above. I haven't been keeping up to date with the developments in the industry, which I should really be doing, but this was the bad bit:
On Tuesday we were in a primary school in Co. Limerick when I passed out a teacher in the corridor. I was a little too close to her when I passed by and I thought to myself "should have really said sorry there" but didn't think too much of it afterwards. But about five minutes later she came into the office and angrily told me "when you're passing someone in the corridors you could at least show some politeness." I believed she was trying to pick a fight and let rip into her, telling her to shut up and leave me alone. She complained to my boss who had to reason with me, but he was right to do so since I admit to being way out of line.

so not only do you think that everything should be handed to you on a plate, youve got a rotten work ethic as well as an attitude?

nice. gee, want to come and work for me?

Karsini wrote:

Am I expecting to do too little in the job?

hey look at that, you do understand something..

Karsini wrote:

I want to leave and find something else, but I certainly don't want to leave if I've nothing else to go to.

so get another job that will give you a ferrari and million a year.

Karsini wrote:

I'm 20 so there's no way I'm paying €4,000 on car insurance.

my mistake, youre 20 and you want a full career handed to you on a plate.

Karsini wrote:

My ideal position would be doing maintenance/repairs in store, but I just want to know if my ambitions are too simple?

yes. they are.
why not just go and get a job with PC world. you are afraid to step out of your little comfort zone.

Karsini wrote:

Or am I right to believe that security is beyond the scope of an IT technician's job?

i think the scope of any job is not limited to a description on a piece of paper.
i think you just wont do it becuase you are either some sort of techie snob, or you are afriad you wont be able to do it. but at 12k a year, beggers cant be choosers.

Karsini wrote:

I suppose I'm just looking for some advice on how to deal with all this. Thanks.

do you really want advice? all ive seen is someone looking for people to tell them that youre ok, and that your boss is unfair.

as for the teacher thing, that just your own attitude. personally, you sound immature to me, and until you grow up a bit and learn how to deal with people, and learn that you actually have to work at your job to get ahead, you wont go anywhere.

DonkeyStyle \o/

WhiteWashMan wrote:

you are afraid to step out of your little comfort zone.

I think I'm afraid to step out of my comfort zone aswell, any ideas on how I can give myself a good kick in the ass?
I need some wwm tough love

WhiteWashMan

its easy.
next time you see an opporunity, take it.
dont try and convince yourself out of it.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Harsh words wwm, but you're probably right. The first time I read it I thought you were just having a go at me but I read it again and you are making sense.

My work ethic was fine up to a few months ago, it was when I was told to do stuff I wasn't doing before that I started losing it. Digital signage is another area he wants to do, but I'm not a graphic designer so don't have the experience/ability to do it. The course he enrolled me in is in phone systems, and that alone. He never mentioned anything about a digital signage course.

I do need to grow up, and the fact that I hate almost any form of authority (or being told what to do) doesn't help me one bit. I wouldn't have the guts to go out on my own either, and at my age I think it would be a bit too ambitious. This is rather serious imo...

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

The training doesn't sound that bad though really, you say you find it hard to find other IT work... it might be handy to have the whole CCTV/Alarm experience to fall back on down the road... is the cost of this training provided for by the company, or will you have to dig in to your own pocket to pay for expenses?

The travel expenses and course fees are paid for by the company but accomodation and any expenses other than those are my responsibility.

WhiteWashMan

One thing I wanted to add however:

WhiteWashMan wrote:

so, you think you should be paid more to do the exact same thing you have always done?
hes wiling to give you trinaing, and youre complaining because of what exactly? its not a PC, but a camera?
im not sure what your problem is really

It's not the same thing I've always done. I got this job three years ago and the description said nothing about security or graphic designing. This has all been within the last two months or so.

The rest of your comments I have no defence for. I've had different problems in the past but never did anything about them, your "comfort zone" point does prove true for me.

thesteve

Jobs always change, businesses grow and if you don't grow with them, then you'll be replaced with someone who will, you'll get this everywhere... like stated above if you wanna do the same thing everyday, go to PC World...

WhiteWashMan

Karsini wrote:

Harsh words wwm, but you're probably right. The first time I read it I thought you were just having a go at me but I read it again and you are making sense.

not at all, i just have a very direct way of doing things, as some people here would tell you

im glad you went to the bother of understanding what i wrote, or at least tried to get across. most people would just read it, get offended because it wasnt what they wanted to hear, and then told me i was a mod, and i cant do things like that.
blah blah blah

Karsini wrote:

My work ethic was fine up to a few months ago, it was when I was told to do stuff I wasn't doing before that I started losing it. Digital signage is another area he wants to do, but I'm not a graphic designer so don't have the experience/ability to do it. The course he enrolled me in is in phone systems, and that alone. He never mentioned anything about a digital signage course.

it sounds like youa re just afraid to take ona new challenge. dont worry, its perfectly natural. i mean, at your age, 21, whats the worse thing that can happen?
seriously, whats the worse thing that can happen? think about it. is it really that bad?

Karsini wrote:

I do need to grow up, and the fact that I hate almost any form of authority (or being told what to do) doesn't help me one bit. I wouldn't have the guts to go out on my own either, and at my age I think it would be a bit too ambitious. This is rather serious imo...

i think you need to get over whatever it is that is holding you back. perhaps thats something for the PI board, but what is your problem with authority?
until you figure it out and make peace with it, you are always going to come across as an attitude to someone who is in authority to you. you have to learn to manage your manger.

Karsini wrote:

The travel expenses and course fees are paid for by the company but accomodation and any expenses other than those are my responsibility.

if they are sending you on a course that is away from your home, then they need to pay for accommodation as well. they also should pay you eith er a per diem rate, or at least you should be able to expense your meals.
you are on company business, its up to them to pay for it.

if you really hate your job so much, why dont you go somewhere else.

who do you currently work for, and where?

Banjo013

Why don't you try setting up on your own and take all the bosses clients with you ? He probably did the same thing once ....

I think he deserves it to be honest. Paying €12k a year ????? I was earning more than that in my first job and all I was doing was taking broken monitors off a production line and placing them on a pallet. I don't work in the IT area any more though - if you could call working on a broken monitor line IT. Was working for Gateway 2000 at the time.

As for the CCTV and alarms stuff, I'd see that as introducing a bit of variety into the job to be honest. And that is a growth area which you should be able to capitalise on in the future.

Is it just yourself working for this guy or does he have a whole team of people on €12k a year ? If it's just you then you're in a position to leverage a more favourable set of conditions cause he's not likely to want to piss you off and make you walk, especially if he's venturing into a new line of business ... he can't afford to find someone new and train them up at this time. However I get the impression that he has no fear of you walking becuase you haven't given him reason to, and therefore he can walk all over you. I'd address that if I were you.

Jesus I've just read your original post again - €12k after three years service ?? That's unbelievable.

Also, any expenses incurred by you on behalf of the job should be reimbursed. I would be making a case for your accomodation costs while on training .... if you hadn't been doing the job and being sent on training as a result, then you wouldn't have incurred additional accomodation expenses. That should be paid for.

At the end of the day, life is what you make it and that goes for professional life too. You have one hell of a bad set of conditions there and I'm surprised there are still people willing to work for such companies. You haven't said how old you are .... in time you may want to get married and have kids .... how are you going to pull your weight at home on €12k a year ?! I'd be thinking about doing something about it to be honest. Go and learn a trade - become a mechanic or someting .... even while on training they earn more than you do.

Incidentally WhiteWashMan - your comments seem to be coming from someone very bitter and disillusioned with working life. There's nothing untrue in what you've said fair enough .... it's just the way you said it. I used to have a staff member who had a bitter and negative attitude like yours ..... I fired her. With a defensive negative attitude like that she was never going to let herself go anywhere professionally, and she was wasting the companys and my time cause she would never have developed professionally the way she needed to, and the way the company needed her to. She was going to be a stick in the mud forever and block the flow of people within the company - people who would grow and develop into something more. This alone is very important.

Back to the original poster, I'm not saying you have to bend over and take it up the backside every time your boss tells you to. However you've got to be thinking to yourself "what can I get out of this and how can I turn this bad situation around to suit me ?". If you're getting the opportunity for training for something useful, you should jump at it. It's a skills acquisition that will stand to you in the future.

However I still can't get over your salary - it's mad.

WhiteWashMan

Banjo013 wrote:

Incidentally WhiteWashMan - your comments seem to be coming from someone very bitter and disillusioned with working life. There's nothing untrue in what you've said fair enough .... it's just the way you said it. I used to have a staff member who had a bitter and negative attitude like yours ..... I fired her. With a defensive negative attitude like that she was never going to let herself go anywhere professionally, and she was wasting the companys and my time cause she would never have developed professionally the way she needed to, and the way the company needed her to. She was going to be a stick in the mud forever and block the flow of people within the company - people who would grow and develop into something more. This alone is very important.

*i* have a negative attitude to work?

*snigger*

so the way i have said stuff leads (which you agree is correct) means i have a negative attitude?

thats strange. im a country manager for a nasdaq listed company, and my president thinks i doa fine job.
if my comments are negative in any way, its becuase i cant stand when people wallow about in self pity at not having life their way. i started my career earning less than 9k a year in NEC in meath, working 12 hours shifts pressing buttons on a factory floor.
i know exactly what its like to drag yourself out of the slum of a nowhere job, sitting on your arse hoping the management will see how wonderful you are, is not going to do it. you need your dreams, but more than that, you need to have a plan, and you need to be able to action it.

so sorry if you feel that i have some negative attitude to work,but perhaps you better re-evalute what exactly my bitter attitude is towards. perhaps you arent the great person reader you *think* you are?

Banjo013

Back to WhiteWashMan ...

I feel sorry for posting my comment toward you now. I've no desire to engage in a tennis match hitting curve balls back and forth ... nor do I have a desire to hijack this thread by making it into something other than the original posters issue.

My remarks are truely out of place, I take them back with humility.

WhiteWashMan

Banjo013 wrote:

Back to WhiteWashMan ...

I feel sorry for posting my comment toward you now. I've no desire to engage in a tennis match hitting curve balls back and forth ... nor do I have a desire to hijack this thread by making it into something other than the original posters issue.

My remarks are truely out of place, I take them back with humility.

i wouldnt worry about it.
i dont have a 'post off topic' rule on this forum.
i like discussions to go where they may....

although i do believe that the person you sacked was probably a waste of time, and god knows, ive done exactly the same
i have little time for people who wont make things happenfor themselves.
it comes from the fact that if *i* can do something with my life, jesus christ, any one can! because im the laziest person you ever met, but i worked the system, and i said the right things, i looked the right way, and occassionally, i was good at what i did.

although i would be interested to hear why you think i was the type of person that i was actually giving out about!

Sposs

Just reading your post you say your on €9 per hour if your doing a standard 39 hour week that means you earn €18,252.00 per year not 12k.

tk123

WhiteWashMan wrote:

im a country manager for a nasdaq listed company

gis a job WWM!! Heehee only messing!! OP you need to cop on - you're 20 you've been working for this guy for 3 years - if you don't want to take his free training etc leave. Get a new job or do some certs or something because you are going to get bored just fixing PCs. I think you are wasting your time moaning to us lot cos most of us are underpaid IT people so you won't get any pity!!

WhiteWashMan

if you have sales, i am looking for someone, maybe two someones

nesf

WhiteWashMan wrote:

if you have sales, i am looking for someone, maybe two someones

lol, selling what and ballpark salary/commission please

ando

To the original poster, I'm a field engineer for the last 4 years now, similar job to you, working on servers, workstations and anything to do with the office that has a chip in it

I'd recommend you read a book: 'Who moved my cheese' by Dr Spencer Johnson. Its helped me in the past, especially when my company started supporting Mac's, which I had never worked on before :mad: . The book changes the way you think when change or unexpected things happen or are about to happen. You being a mouse and 'Cheese' being what you desire in life or are happy with

You have to do something with that salary m8, I hope its a part time job you have, if not I’d get out of it and look elsewhere. I was in a similar situation when I started in IT, but then started night study and got MCSE qualifications and soon enough started demanding higher pay

Tom Dunne

There is some good advice here, take it.

I would add to what others have been saying by pointing out that you reap what you sow. I am in a job that I have disliked for a long, long time now. But like WWM, I decided to play the game. I too went in at the botton (at 19 years of age), with no qualifications. I got a plan together and got myself some qualifications. I am now hopefully in a position to change jobs, and change to a job that I know I will enjoy.

There is no point in moping around. Get the finger out and get working on a plan. Decide what you want to do and what you can do. Until that is clear in your head, you are going nowhere.

Lump

I was going to make some points about if you don't like the job/pay go and get a different fúcking job, but WWM says it so much nicer.

John

WhiteWashMan

nesf wrote:

lol, selling what and ballpark salary/commission please

whats your experience, and i might share...

nesf

WhiteWashMan wrote:

whats your experience, and i might share...

Is it in Dublin first of all, since I don't want to live there

5 years working doing business to business sales is all i will say publically

WhiteWashMan

Uk or denmark.
Pm me if you want to tell me more.
or just send me your cv.

Sposs

Sposs wrote:

Just reading your post you say your on €9 per hour if your doing a standard 39 hour week that means you earn €18,252.00 per year not 12k.

Nope, I'm on a 28 hour week. Roughly €13k now that I think of it. Still not much better. I started the job part time at 17, and my hours were upped to 28 in February.

Banjo013 wrote:

Is it just yourself working for this guy or does he have a whole team of people on €12k a year ?

Its just him and me.

The reason why he's not paying the accomodation is because I'm originally from Dublin and he wants me to stay with my relatives there. But all my relatives are in Ballyfermot while the course is in Ballymount, not sure how I'll get out there for 9 in the morning for five days. So its going to be tricky.

I've got the CompTIA A+ certification at the moment but it seems to be pretty useless except in the US. I took that myself, that was nothing to do with the company.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

it sounds like youa re just afraid to take ona new challenge. dont worry, its perfectly natural. i mean, at your age, 21, whats the worse thing that can happen?
seriously, whats the worse thing that can happen? think about it. is it really that bad?

That makes some sense to me also. Fear of the unknown holds me back with a lot of things, in my personal life as well as work life.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i think you need to get over whatever it is that is holding you back. perhaps thats something for the PI board, but what is your problem with authority?
until you figure it out and make peace with it, you are always going to come across as an attitude to someone who is in authority to you. you have to learn to manage your manger.

I'm not sure how to explain it, maybe I just don't like being told what to do.

WhiteWashMan wrote:

who do you currently work for, and where?

I won't give the company name but its got no fixed premises. Most work is done on site in a radius from Tralee to Limerick city. If we need to take PCs back to base then its usually his home near Ballybunion or mine near Listowel. So I'm never away from the job, often have work to do at home also.

DublinWriter

Karsini wrote:

I do need to grow up, and the fact that I hate almost any form of authority (or being told what to do) doesn't help me one bit.

Big problem. You need to sort that out and quick. Also, the way you dealt with that teacher was sersiously unprofessional.

Karsini wrote:

I wouldn't have the guts to go out on my own either, and at my age I think it would be a bit too ambitious. This is rather serious imo...

You're 20, right? Bill Gates founded Microsoft at 21. Richard Branson founded Virgin at 19. The moral of the story is set yourself some specific professional life goals and targets. If you want something enough, and work hard enough, you'll get it.

Your boss probably has you down as a 'drifter' because of what he percieves to be an unambitious attitude in you and maybe that's the reason he thinks he can also train you as a graphic designer/phone repair man.

Karsini wrote:

The travel expenses and course fees are paid for by the company but accomodation and any expenses other than those are my responsibility.

That's a bit rich. Your accomodation, travel and meals should be paid for by the employer while training (subsistance).

I've seen lots of small outfits like this around the country and they really are the pits to work for - even PC World would be better. Although family owned business are even worse.

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote:

Big problem. You need to sort that out and quick. Also, the way you dealt with that teacher was sersiously unprofessional.

I won't argue with you there. I regretted doing it literally seconds afterwards.

DublinWriter wrote:

Your boss probably has you down as a 'drifter' because of what he percieves to be an unambitious attitude in you and maybe that's the reason he thinks he can also train you as a graphic designer/phone repair man.

Well I used to love the job until earlier this year when virtually the whole working day shifted to networking schools. The graphic designing is the area that annoys me most, surely the alarm systems etc wouldn't be much more difficult. The program he's trying to sell is Scala InfoChannel Designer 3, €10,000 worth (so he says), and you really do need to know a fair share of graphic design to make anything in it.

DublinWriter wrote:

I've seen lots of small outfits like this around the country and they really are the pits to work for - even PC World would be better. Although family owned business are even worse.

I might still give PC World a try, lol. It would probably be ideal for me. I just never considered that blindly sending letters to these companies would ever work.

nesf

Karsini wrote:

I won't argue with you there. I regretted doing it literally seconds afterwards.

Right. Ok I'm going to be blunt here ok, so don't take it personally, this is just some tips i've picked up over the years.

What you did with that teacher. Well I'd fire you on the spot for it (or at the very least put you on a warning for it). I've managed teams of people, and if someone isn't going to be professional, then they have no business expecting anything above minimum wage in my book. You have to work on your professionalism. Not just your attitude, but mate seriously, having a problem with authority is all well and good but that is exactly the kind of **** you leave at home when you go to work. You DO NOT bring your issues to work with you unless you are trying to be fired. I cannot stress that enough.

Professionalism is something that you need to master if you are going to get anywhere, be it working for yourself or for others. Being professional means, amongst other things, that you dress the part (yes this is very shallow but people do judge you on how you dress). Are you going into those schools in a t-shirt and jeans or a shirt and slacks? I guarantee you that you would be treated well if you were well kept and dressed while doing the job (not saying that you aren't, only that it is an area to be aware of).

Being professional also covers things like timekeeping, attitude and conduct. You cannot afford to have problems in these areas. I know this from personal experience, the hardest part of my day is getting out of bed, it can take alot to wake me. But it's still something that I work really hard on, it's not easy, but it is something that I need to improve. Attitude can be sometimes the most difficult thing to keep in check. There are times when you just want to strangle an employee or co-worker. The to deal with this is to find some outlet for this outside of work. One way is to blog/journal it, but if you choose to do that make damn sure that there is no way from anyone at work seeing it. NEVER assume that your workmates are stupid and that they aren't capable of using the internet. I've seen guys lose their jobs over something they wrote in their blog. You do not want to let that happen to you. Even bitching about it on here is a bit of a bad idea, but hey it's your choice.

The final thing, and possibly the most crucial is conduct. If you are a person who is naturally rude and abrasive (and unable to turn it off when you need to) then you'll never get anywhere without a hell of a lot of money put behind you. Politeness doesn't cost you a thing, but it's something that will be noticed by anyone who works with you or in whose environment you work in. I've seen this aspect of professionalism broken alot, I've worked for a long time in sales and I've seen many a cocky youngster lose his job because he pissed off too many customers or said something to a manager that was very inappropiate. It costs you nothing to be polite and courteous. Nothing. There is NEVER an excuse for not being so. If you can't bring yourself to be polite then you will find working very difficult. One of the tenets of working in this country is scratch other's backs so they'll do the same for you when you need it. If you are a professional employee then you will be the one standing out when they are looking for someone to promote, but if you are unprofessional you'll always be on the cards for the sack if they need to fire someone.

It only takes a little effort to be professional, but it is something that is crucial when working.

I could rant on about a million and one little things that make the difference when it comes to being professional, but you need to get your head around the basics before you can afford to start worrying about how familiar you are with clients (with regard to how long you know them), remembering the little details when you meet someone again (have they kids? were they talking about doing something last time you met? If so ask them how it went, they will appreciate you taking the time to remember). These are the little touches that make the difference. They are not easy to pick up, but as I said you need to start with the basics.

There are different levels of professionalism expected in different enviroments working as a used car salesman versus working for a bank. Just because you aren't in a suit everyday doesn't mean you can afford not to be professional. It just seems that alot of people don't understand that. Put a suit on a guy and suddenly he thinks he's important and tries to appear professional, put him in overall's and he's acting the **** and intolerable to work with. Thats obviously a horrible generalisation but you get the idea. I've seen guys become total twats as soon as they have a suit on also though. They think that they are better than others just because they are wearing one :rolleyes: (I work in a suit btw, just in case you think it's bitterness or anything )

Bottom Line: You can not act like that. You need to be acting professionally. Although for the wages your on you can probably get away with it. But the whole point is, unless you plan on never being anything more than a field technician, you need to brush up on your professionalism.

To put the above into context, while I may be a wearing good suits and very professional in my work, when I'm not working, I'm most definitely not well dressed, I wouldn't be allowed into any yuppie bar in the city with the way I dress, runners, jeans and a t-shirt thanks very much. Also my sense of humour doesn't work well when working (I'm far too dark in my humour). But these things don't stop me being professional when I'm working. I can do whatever it is I want when I'm off work, but when I'm clocked in I am being paid not only to do my job, but also to do it efficiently and professionally. I am also expected to both look and act the part when dealing with clients, otherwise I'd be fired on the spot, past sales record or no.

Professionalism doesn't cost you much to maintain, but it might cost you your job if you neglect it.

Sorry for the rant, just have a bit to say about this.

elivsvonchiaing

nesf wrote:

Right. Ok I'm going to be blunt here ok, so don't take it personally, this is just some tips i've picked up over the years....

All good advice. but it is impossible to maintain a professional attitude when you know you are paid €1.50 for work that company is being payed €50+ - move on... market seems to be still improving in IT sector... I suggest you think about the following: identifying businesses who need pc support cheaply -find out what competition is there... just undercut them - you could do this cheaply - just need cohones to go out and do it... maybe start as nixer at weekend... in grey market - develop reputation... soon as your turning over €25k you should go legit and charge VAT.

you probably should go legit - with taxman - a year in arrears - starting out - you'll have no idea if you'll hit the VAT registration cutoff at first!

just take a risk - starting at weekenders... think about it... is corporate ladder ass-kissing bull**** for you? or be your own boss? ...

though be prepared for entertaining - a$$holes as clients - just screw em when ya invoice!

nesf

nesf wrote:

Sorry for the rant, just have a bit to say about this.

No problem, was happy to read through it all. That was the first time I ever did anything out of line in the job, and as I've said I'm not one bit happy with it, I know it was seriously out of line. I certainly wouldn't have done what I did if she didn't start on me first. I don't go into work thinking "I'm gonna p*** someone off today", I'm happy with anyone who's nice towards me. But I know I should have just taken it in and said nothing back. I repeat, I've never done anything like this before.

I do dress appropriately in the job, there's no issue there.

I'm just too afraid to go out on my own right now, seems to be so much involved in it.

nesf

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

All good advice. but it is impossible to maintain a professional attitude when you know you are paid €1.50 for work that company is being payed €50+ - move on... market seems to be still improving in IT sector... I suggest you think about the following: identifying businesses who need pc support cheaply -find out what competition is there... just undercut them - you could do this cheaply - just need cohones to go out and do it... maybe start as nixer at weekend... in grey market - develop reputation... soon as your turning over €25k you should go legit and charge VAT.

just take a risk - starting at weekenders... think about it... is corporate ladder ass-kissing bull**** for you? or be your own boss? ...

though be prepared for entertaining - a$$holes as clients - just screw em when ya invoice!

I agree it's not easy to do when you're being paid ****, I've been there. Believe me that its ****ing hard to stay professional when your a door to door salesman. That was about the nastiest work that I've ever had to do.

The main problem with him going alone is that he only has 3 years experience doing this, and probably has had no experience in the advertising/office work aspect of the job, which are aspects that are just as important. Also when starting off yourself it'll be very hard for you to if you don't have alot of training and the credentials to back yourself up.

The **** having a boss and work for yourself attitude is one I know well, my dad made damn sure of that, he did the corporate slave gig for 20 years then went out on his own and ended up being hired back as a consultant by his old company for the same money but half the hours. I am someone who wants to be their own boss and to not have to put up with asshole managers higher up the food chain, but I am realistic enough to realise that I need a hell of a lot more experience and contacts before I can make that a reality.

I will work for myself. I am just not going to **** it up by rushing there too quickly, use your time working for others to train up as much as you can. Some day you'll have enough knowledge and know enough people to go alone. But if he tries to set up himself now, it'll be nickle and dime jobs fixing the odd machine. He'll have quite a bit of hassle also working for himself if he isn't professional. In 5/10 years when he's got a wealth of experience behind him, he'll be in a position to go out on his own and make a killing. But if he does it prematurely it is not going to be easy.

I'd look for a new job and try to broaden your experience. Yes you can network for a school, but could you install a secure cisco network for a company and fix any problem that might arrise in it? There is a HUGE gap between the two. There is also a big profit difference between the two. Yes the primary school networking is making a killing for these few months, maybe a year and a half, but we all know that those networks won't be touched for another 15-20 years. Company networks on the otherhand are big business and would be a stable income.

That said, if you want to work in PC World, theres nothing wrong with that.

WhiteWashMan

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

All good advice. but it is impossible to maintain a professional attitude when you know you are paid €1.50 for work that company is being payed €50+ -

i disagree.
i think if you are going to work in a job, you should put yourself into it 100%.
otherwise, you are wasting your own time, and other peoples time.

if you feel you are undervalued, either start getting valued, or go somewhere you are valued.

seamus

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i disagree.
i think if you are going to work in a job, you should put yourself into it 100%.
otherwise, you are wasting your own time, and other peoples time.

if you feel you are undervalued, either start getting valued, or go somewhere you are valued.

Exactly.
Token Simpsons Quote:
"Lisa if you don't like your job, you don't strike...You just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way!"