help required from ye experienced web developers

teac!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by podgeen:
I need to provide a web application that will allow users to log on, complete a series of questions, view there results and log of.

(..snip..)

This project has been attempted before using Java servlets.
</font>

Problem is you never gave us any background information. What platform is your application running on? Is it interacting with a database? What sort of machine are you running (specs)? What webserver?

Different languages scale better depending on how exactly you implement the design and application of them. If you're running a fairly powerful machine and Java Servlets are crashing on you, for a small amount of clients, I would wonder about the design of the application.

More background information from you, lets us give more information to you, without speculation.

Phil.

dahamsta

Not helpful I know, but ditto above - 40-60 concurrent processes shouldn't hurt anything but the most basic of machines. I would think your problem lies with the webserver configuration.

adam

podgeen

Thanks for the replies lads.
The previous attempt at the project was made by another individual. As far as i know the server was a P2 with 64megs running linux. The clients were running netscape on redhat linux. Apache webserver, MySQL database.
I planning on taking on this project as an FYP. the spec is fairly open, must be reliable and not slow, implementation is up to me.
I'm thinking of going about it like so:
c++ server interacting with database and communication with client through sockets
client applet communicating with server.

As regard the load on the server, 40-60 users interacting with server for about 15mins.

same as before all comments/sugggestions welcome.

madmax

Maybe I am silly here but what not use something like ASP ? Read the Questions from the Database on the fly, build up the page, let the user answer and post back?

bonkey

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by podgeen:
Thanks for the replies lads.
The previous attempt at the project was made by another individual. As far as i know the server was a P2 with 64megs running linux. The clients were running netscape on redhat linux. Apache webserver, MySQL database. </font>

Well, unless you were doing something silly like trying to run X on the machine, then you should have had plenty of resources. I would conclude that either the code is disastrous, or there is something seriously shagged in the config.

To develop the project youre describing, I would be inclined to go with either PHP or Java Servlets, backending to any database system which supports transactions. Web server can be anything you like pretty much.

Session timeouts are the one major thing to watch out for, but theyre easy enough to get around...

If, on the other hand, you want to go the Windows direction, then arguably the "best" way to develop it would be to use the beta .NET technologies. This may be slightly overkill, but it would be good experience.

Oh - and given that this is exam-related (i.e. serious), I'd consider using SSL for the data transmission.
[/B][/QUOTE]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by podgeen:
I'm thinking of going about it like so:
c++ server interacting with database and communication with client through sockets
client applet communicating with server.
</font>

I think you're reinventing the wheel, and socket management (resuming dropped sessions) will prove to be a nightmare. I would be more inclined to stick to a "proper" thin client (browser based).

Course...thats just my opinion.

jc

mewso

Even though I'm an ASP developer first and foremost I have to say that a php-mysql solution seems to be screaming out for anybody to listen here.

podgeen

I need to provide a web application that will allow users to log on, complete a series of questions, view there results and log of. The problem is that there will be about 40-60 people logging on at the same time, doing the questions etc.. all at the same time. This project has been attempted before using Java servlets. But it was too slow (at peak times) and crashed frequently. I need to provide a better solution, it must be *very* reliable, and have little to low maintance. I have a few ideas for ways to go about it, I would be interested in any ideas anyone else has. I'll post my solutions up here later for critisim(dont want to infulence any one's comments/suggestions atm) Any comments/suggestions appreciated.
Thanks.

(most people read both web and programmin board so dont suggest moving it to that board. !! )

Enygma

Hmmm, I'm very surprised Java Servlets were too slow. Perhaps they weren't designed to be scaleable.
There are some simple guidelines that really do help performance such as using Connection Pooling and Prepared Statements if you're using a RDBMS. Did you optimize the compile? Did you have any load balancing?
Did you use EJBs?
You should also implement an Object Pool, the creation of objects is fairly expensive.

In my experience a Java based webapp should be able to handle 40-60 requests without too many problems.


A lot depends on hardware resources too (more RAM would never go astray).

Nietzschean

Well firstly if ye are gonna use this solution you will need software for linux that allows you SQL/mySQL access in linux.

Firstly login page if all same details just do simple checks built into the page you could load the var's up from an included page.

After for higher traffic you are probally better off having the login page questions hard coded...if you look up an asp refrence book you can call htmlout(or similar) function on an asp page which means it will process it and produce you a page.
So to cut down resources when you update questions on the database thru your admin page it could call the update command n refresh the static page. For storing the questions easist solution is obvously just connecting to the db n dumping it in...but the other things there can minimise your db useage, 1 access per person completing it vs 2/3 access's.
I've crashed a fair few servers by over using the db access.

Nietzschean

and also most linux comp's don't support asp ye will probally need to download asp support...i'm not sure but last time i checked it ain't free

Oh yeah

People log on... does this mean that they have signed up already?

In which case, perhaps you could set up a subdomain for each registered user, with copies of some Active Server Pages on each one. When they log on, they are taken to the subdomain, which has all the information they'll need to do the questionnaire thing. This way they aren't all trying to use one bit of code, but lots and lots of copies of a bit of code, an all not trying to access the same documents.


I may have just spouted an unholy amount of unhelpful bull****. If so I apologise. But something along those lines, however vaguely, might be useful.


Technolgogy be with you all.


Think about it...

---

Life is like a pyrotechnics display. You've got to stand back and let it happen, othwerwise you're are sincerely bollocked....

thegreensock.com

Can you feel the love?

[This message has been edited by Oh yeah (edited 24-06-2001).]

Nietzschean

i think you just spouted the longest most boring way of overcomming his problem

teac!

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by podgeen:

I'm thinking of going about it like so:
c++ server interacting with database and communication with client through sockets
client applet communicating with server.
</font>

Don't touch C++, unless you're proficient (and when I say, proficient, I mean basically talk in it every day).
If you do have a fairly OK grasp of C++, have a look at PHP (http://www.php.net). It's got a C/C++ style syntax and is designed for the kind of application you're looking at.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">

As regard the load on the server, 40-60 users interacting with server for about 15mins.
</font>

Well, 40-60 users isn't really a lot. What I would look at, is implementing mod_php or mod_perl on the server. If you're looking at C++ because of speed issues, mod_php would generally be faster because it's executed within the apache process and doesn't cause the overhead of a fork & exec.

Have a look at PHP (or PERL with CGI.pm), the system should hardly be under any load at all, if that's all you're doing with the machine
Phil.

Ronin

Pod lad,

PHP and mysql with apache will do all that you want rather simply. You could probably do the whole thing in on massive page if you wanted.

Do the auth of users via PHP_AUTH_USER which you could also tie into another database.

Users login, enter the details, details get updated to a mysql db and then you've all your details. Then let the users logout. Sorted.

Gis a shout on irc if you need any help.

Ro

podgeen

Cheers for all the help lads... looks like php is the way to go...
ronin did i see you in limerick at the weekend?

Ronin

Yeah that was me walkin outa the offy. Woulda stoped to say ello but we was on our way to kerry and everyone was already in the car and ready to go..

Tis funny who ya see on the way down the country ..

Ro

podgeen

thought it was you but wasnt sure...

Lord Khan

Pod? this wouldn't be one of those annoying things that end up as teaching aid packages that Davey Burns uses?

Well I'd back the PHP and MySQl solution too ... it's quite easy and very reliable and the only load issue would be with the hardware.

course you could right the whole thing in perl and use cookies ... but only if you want to repeat Forth year

this coming from somebody who is barely making it in to Second year...

podgeen

nah its not dave burns one... if you make it to second year you will might get to see it.. for oop.