VB on the decline.

Hobbes

Just reading an article on a survey done (Interactive week, May 14th).

Basically less people are using VB to develop. More are moving to Java (actually I'm really starting to like Java big time).

Then= March 2000, Now = March 2001
Percentage...
... using VB some of the time = 63%, 46%
... Avg of time spent using VB = 28%,20%
... using Java some of the time = 42%, 51%
... avg of time spent using Java = 15%, 21%

Seems a lot of people aren't happy with VB7.net as it is now more like C++.

Enygma

Been using Java for the best part of the last year now and I have to say it's really really sweet. Wasn't really into it when it came out first but as of Java 2 and J2EE especially Java's really matured.
I'm still not too gone on Swing but Java really shines when it comes to web stuff. (JSP, XML, Servlets, EJB).

I've noticed you've been asking a lot of questions on Java lately Hobbes, what kind of stuff are you doing with it?

Hobbes

At the moment it's work related stuff. But I was a bit surprised how easy it was to do stuff and quickly... considering it's free it's all +++

Baz_

Well I don't know about anyone else here but the sound of VB coupled with c++ sounds very appealing to me. Is it just that the IDE is just shared between all the MS programming langs now or has VB changed even more than simply the environment its in now???

Is MS visual studio 7 ever going to be released on an actual CD or how does that .net thing work anyway, it's hard to keep up with everything.

Manach

There is a Slashdot article/discussion on alternatives to VB in a cross-platform Linux IDE development
http://slashdot.org/developers/01/06/08/2140257.shtml

Evil Phil

I've been using Java since the start of the year and I love it, although I'm still doing vb as well

I think VB is in decline as it's not as powerful as the alternatives. Although I've a beta of VB.net at home and it does have a lot of new features but I think VB has been stigmatised at this stage.

The Corinthian

VB is better than Java for some things, and not for others.

The M$ move into .NET has not been recieved well, imho, and that probably not helped VB's popularity.

Evil Phil

The features I've seen are long overdue and are an improvement, but you're right they're not helping VB's popularity. A lot of the VBers I've worked with have only worked with VB so I reckon the less experienced will have problems adjusting to this new version.

mewso

The changes in .net are big but tbh you wouldn't be much of a programmer if you couldn't adjust. It's a changing area of technology at all times anyway.
VB.net is changing in a few areas. Search the web and you'll get the gist quick enough.
Variables - you now have to declare the type. Variants are gone and the only way to get the same effect is to create an object. There are now structures. You can now set values to variables in the same line as the declaration - dim x as integer=10. It also now has read only variables. In classes Set and Let are gone. New error handling using Try, Throw, Catch etc.
suffice to say there are many changes and it's worth checking out what they are now. From Microsoft's MSDN site you can order the Visual Studio.Net beta for delivery charge only but Beta2 is due out so perhaps it might be worth waiting till then.
I can't see VB.Net doing anything other than slowly reviving it. Am I the only one who still finds Java applications slower than any other kind?

Hobbes

TBH I never really liked the Variant, and I always put Option explicit in all my programs as it's bad practise to create variables on the fly.

bonkey

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Baz_:
Well I don't know about anyone else here but the sound of VB coupled with c++ sounds very appealing to me. Is it just that the IDE is just shared between all the MS programming langs now or has VB changed even more than simply the environment its in now???</font>

The changes are significant. Basically, the entire Dev Studio is supposed to run in a single IDE now, using the same design tools. Thus, C++ will get VBs form-builder (which is vastly superior). Another benefit of this is the integration of languages. Much as Borland did with Delphi / C++, you will now be able to have VB callign C++ routines and vice versa from (supposedly) within the same project, and debugging will be seamless from one to the other.

Yes, VB.NET is much more complex than VB6. However, I dont think this is responsible for VBs decline. There's a simpler reason. For the past few years, companies have been thinking "WEB WEB WEB" all over the place. VB isnt very good at that. Hence the need for an alternative. Given that most VB developers stay away from COM, DCOM, MTS and COM+ like the plague, VB isnt that popular for backend server-side development. Java fits in here quite nicely thank you very much.

Incidentally, webclasses and DHTML projects are being dropped from VB for .NET.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Is MS visual studio 7 ever going to be released on an actual CD or how does that .net thing work anyway, it's hard to keep up with everything.</font>

Its still in Beta. Its due (I believe) early next year, and will only be supported on Win2000, XP and future platforms. It is expected to be released as a normal off-the-shelf product....M$ havent figured out how to do decent web-distro yet, and recognise the bandwidth limitations that are still in place.

jc

mewso

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Hobbes:
I always put Option explicit in all my programs as it's bad practise to create variables on the fly. </font>

Like most of us I'm sure. What I meant was you now HAVE to declare type i.e. dim x as integer.

bonkey

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by musician:
What I meant was you now HAVE to declare type i.e. dim x as integer.</font>

But surely you'd have done that anyway? Its a standard "good coding practice".

Not explicitly typing variables causes them to be instantiated as variants, which are more resource-hungry, and massively slower than their type-specific brethren.

At risk of pointing out the obvious,
Dim x, y, z as integer
will cause x and y to be declared as variants, and z as an integer. This is a mistake Ive seen made so many times, and obviously will not work so well in .NET

jc

Enygma

Yeah, plus if you misspell a variable name it creates a new variable. Hated Perl for that!

On a different note, here's a good article about the differences/similarities between Java and C#

It's got some nice features like that operator overloading one, but I'm guessing it's not at all portable. Right?

[edit]
Oh isn't .NET supposed to be entirely portable? God I dunno, I just can't keep up
[/edit]

[edit2]
Jaysus! I never posted the link!
http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/14/csharp_4_java.html
[/edit2]

[This message has been edited by Enygma (edited 22-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Enygma (edited 22-06-2001).]

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Enygma:
Oh isn't .NET supposed to be entirely portable? God I dunno, I just can't keep up </font>

Yes because Bill Gates loves it when all his programs are easy portable.