Lisp references

Baz_

Has anyone ever used lisp, does anyone know of any basic lisp tutorials online. I might be doing it next year but I'd like to read up on it before I make up my mind.

yossarin

i did a module in lisp 2 years back.

no graphics, limited capabilities re file access and the like. but good on the brackets and the lists front..
why would you want to ?are you doing some sort of rule based AI ?

http://www.lisp.org/table/learn.htm
- theres tons of tutorials off google

Baz_

I have to go to Germany next year and that is one of myoptions, unfortunately so is law so I thought that I would rather do lisp. Also I would like to get into game programming when I grow up so experience with AI would be quite good I hope.

<edit>
Thats a good link by the way ta.
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[This message has been edited by Baz_ (edited 16-06-2001).]

Greenbean

My experience is that unless you are a nutcase with an obsession with the obsqure, do not touch lisp with a barge pole, run away quickly. Yes its A.I. orientated but its sluggish, complicated - bares absolutely no resemblence to c, c++ or java (usefull things for games programming) and most games AI is done in c. Lisp is conductive to programming AI but it doesn't necessary teach AI concepts. An AI course will do that.

I do not think lisp is a valuable introduction to programming of any sort. I've heard diehards say its the "pure" way to program, that it can do graphics; but its a very limited group of people. I may be wrong, hell you may just be the next world class lisp guru who could revolutionise the programming worlds way of thinking, we may even be just about to start a period of lisp programmers being worth 100 grand a year, so make up your own mind - but if this is nothing more than a whim avoid it I think.

koriordan

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I would like to get into game programming when I grow up</font>

Did no one else find that sentence funny ? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like 6-year-old speak ...

Draco

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by koriordan:
Did no one else find that sentence funny ? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like 6-year-old speak ...</font>

I'm 24 and I still say things like that...

As for Lisp - I dunno if it easier to learn than C/C++/Java. I did it in thrid year and some of it was a bit hard going, but that have been more due to the fact I was thinking in an OO way than the procedural (or is it functional? I always got those two mixed up) way Lisp wants you too.
It's an interesting little language none the less and you're not really wasting any time learning it.
Actually, just on the AI side of things I seen a 30 - 40 odd character lisp program that controled a virtual ant that searched out for food in a grid. Lovely, simple, elegant piece of code.

Baz_

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by koriordan:
Did no one else find that sentence funny ? Maybe it's just me, but that sounds like 6-year-old speak ...</font>

I'm 21 and it was meant to be funny ...

Anyways does anyone know where I could get a compiler or interpreter for lisp, as there's no point reading the material if I'm not going to remember it, and the best way of remembering programming material is to program. Also it would be an interpreter for windows 98 if that makes any difference.

Baz_

Snaggle

Lisp describes a family of languages, there are dozens of dialects of Lisp. The 2 most common dialects are 1) Common Lisp and 2) Scheme. If they tell you you're doing Lisp chances are you're doing Common Lisp... which is a shame because it's a lot bigger and kludgier than Scheme. These are general purpose programming languages, although you'll see a few Lisp dialects that are used specifically as extension languages (eLisp for EMACS, AutoLisp for AutoCAD and so on, Scheme is often used as an extension language aswell, such as in the GIMP)

Disspelling a few myths:
You do have graphics in Lisp, as Jerry pointed out, that's a library issue not a language issue

Lisp is not an AI language, usually this is the domain of logic languages such as prolog or mercury. Lisp is often thought of as an AI language because historically, before logic languages, it was the only language good for doing AI (because it's a symbolic programming language and it's very dynamic)

Lisp used to be sluggish but most modern Lisp compilers would compile code that will outpace any high level language bar C and C++, and maybe Eiffel and OCAML.

Lisps tend to be good introductory languages (although not very practical) because lisp is interactive, which is important when people don't understand compile/run cycles very well, and when they're new to programming and are prone to many mistakes. Scheme has been taught in MIT's 1st year computer science for years now (I've got the book they use, all in Scheme, and it covers a lot more concepts than any introductory C programming book).

Personally I think Scheme is pretty easy to learn, the problem nowadays is that to the average programmer, anything that doesn't look like C is not easy to learn, and to a greater extent anything that is not an imperative language (imperative languages cover pretty much every widely used language at the moment, C, C++, Java, PERL, Python and so on, Lisp belongs to the family of functional languages), that's a matter of what people are used to, which is why, if you assume no previous programming experience then Lisp is indeed easier to learn

ecksor

I think that lisp is worth learning if only to get away from the attitude that C/C++/Java are the only languages worth knowing, or the "right" way to program.

Lisp (or more commonly, scheme, the dialect I spent a little time learning) is rated as one of the best first programming languages to learn, as it emphasises problem solving instead of dicking around with syntax which is what bogs down a lot of C/C++/etc beginners.

As for graphics, that's a library issue, not a language issue.

ecksor

And there's nothing wrong with learning on a whim, the more you learn the easier it all becomes

spod

Lisp, definitely different but well worth looking at.

http://www.cs.rice.edu/~matthias/TLS/

Is a pretty good book, although I've got a slightly older version which was lisp as opposed to scheme specific.

and, well, if you like that sort of thing there's always haskell and clean and Z

Baz_

Well just in case anyone is interested, I found a compiler, interpretor thigy mabob at [url=] I'm just downloading it now so I don't know how good it is, but I'll let you all know.

ta for all the links and help anyway.

Baz_

ps the interepretor is for windows, if it makes any difference.[/url]