QQ in BB

AmarilloFats

VC Last night .5/1 6 seater..
I had $220 Villain had $45

3 limpers
I have QcQh in the BB
I raise to $5
2 Callers

Flop come Tc Ts 7c

I bet $10

1 Caller

Turn is 2c

Comments ...Tnks

I check
Villain checks

River 7h

I check

Villain moves all in

karlh

you can't call. have to presume he's flat calling with the set or at least has a 7 and fills up.

horrible board for QQ, but you have to drop them.

sure you'll tell me it was a lovely bluff and he showed you 22 or something!?

Hyzepher

imo - the check on the turn is what has got you into trouble. A bet here would give you some indication of where you are at. The flush on the board may have been enough for him to fold - if he was on a 7 - maybe not if he held the 10. Maybe he had the flush? The check on the turn just gives him a free card to nail you with. My money is on him holding a 7.

Hyzepher

jem

I think he slow played clubs on turn, he had a flush IMHO.

karlh

i'll take the 20-1 outsider...

quad 7s.

delanec8

What could he have called a raise and a bet on the flop with and then gone all in with on the river? The only hand which he could have in this situation which you could beat is an underpair which has been cancelled out by the 7 on the river and seeing as their is too much money in the pot he feels the need to bluff at it.

If he had an ace or he probably would have checked the river thinking he could still split the pot. By the way you played your hand i would have put you on AK and he probably did the same so maybe he was pulling a move on you and gambling by calling the flop with the intention of bluffing at the pot later but that is probably unlikely.

My guess is he had a 7 depending on how quick he called your bet on the flop.

JuliusFranco

it's a fold here i'm afraid

nothing wrong really with the way you played this preflop

after the flop, your bet of $10 into a pot of €15 would have given him the odds to chase a flush draw, which of course he would have hit. If he had a single T, then he might have reraised here

a bet on the turn here would have told you a lot more info of course but i'm guessing he has a nut flush. He may have pocket 7's or 10s,

NickyOD

A few thoughts...

The guy is sitting down with $45 (half the max buy) so does not know what he's doing. This doesn't really tell you what he has, just tells you that he's not particularly clever and could limp in/call your preflop raise with a large range of hands, but probably not with a 7.

I can't see him not making a bet on the turn with his set, considering he doesn't have much money in comparison to you. If he had the T or a flush I think he'd just want get his money in here. If he had a 7 I think he would have moved in on the flop.

From the action I think he has 88 or 99, but VC players are so bad its very dificult to tell.

It looks like you have to pay $30 to win $67 so you're getting better than 2:1. However with the range of hands he could have it seems like a marginal EV call. ( T/ 7 / 22/ clubs) I'd have to wonder what he would flat call the $10 on the flop with. Not knowing the player its impossible to tell. I think you would probably save money long term by folding this one, but as I said he could very easily have 88/99. If he's a moron he could easil have called with AJ and thinks his kicker is good. :rolleyes:

mewso

JuliusFranco wrote:

after the flop, your bet of $10 into a pot of €15 would have given him the odds to chase a flush draw, which of course he would have hit.

O.k. correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need 3-1 or better to chase a flush draw on the flop. I think the bet of $10 into a pot of $15 is a good bet and means he is making a mistake if calling on a flush draw. I would suspect he was on the flush draw and made a bad call hitting the flush on the turn. You checked suspecting this is what he may have, he checked because Sklansky told hom how to slow play in a book and then overbets it on the end.

Imposter

You've about a 36% chance of making it. So he was getting odds. This doesn't take the fact that he'd have to possibly call a turn bet as well if he didn't hit there.

NickyOD

musician wrote:

O.k. correct me if I'm wrong but don't you need 3-1 or better to chase a flush draw on the flop.

Actually its about 35% or 2:1 with 2 cards to come so if he was on the draw he was getting 2.5:1 ($10 into $25) so his call would be correct, especially if he also had overcards or a backdoor straight draw. Of course that really all depends on whether or not he put you on the ten. But if I put someone on 2 pairs and I'm on a flush draw I'd always call for that price.

Hitman Actual

Saying you're getting the correct odds to call with a flush draw here is just plain wrong, IMO. Like Imposter said, you may still be faced with another bet on the turn (and a good player will do that if he thinks you're on the draw). Deciding whether it's correct to call depends on how much you think it will cost you to see the hand through to the end... effective odds, I think, according to Sklansky.

NickyOD

lenny_leonard wrote:

Saying you're getting the correct odds to call with a flush draw here is just plain wrong, IMO. Like Imposter said, you may still be faced with another bet on the turn (and a good player will do that if he thinks you're on the draw). Deciding whether it's correct to call depends on how much you think it will cost you to see the hand through to the end... effective odds, I think, according to Sklansky.

In order to use effective odds correctly you need to know if your opponent is likely to bet the turn hard. IF you don't know your opponents very well, you can't predict the effective odds, so they have no useful meaning.

Effective odds can be helpful if your faced with a close call and a maniac is to act after you or if you're in a very aggressive game however. unless you have a very good read on the game its not wise to base your decision on what you think might happen.

Hitman Actual

What I'm trying to say is that using the 2/1 flush draw odds for a 25/10 call is only correct if either the money is all-in or you know that the turn will be checked i.e. you get to see the river without having to face another bet.

I'm not explicitly saying that it's wrong to draw to a flush here, but I have a feeling it might be.

Apologies to AmarilloFats for getting your thread slightly off-topic!

Lafortezza

Out of position (in the BB) raise more with JJ-KK, make it very expensive to see a flop. If the flop comes reasonably good for you (no A, K or coordinated) then overbet it.

One of the hardest things I find is playing JJ, QQ, KK out of position after letting more than 1 limper in to see a flop.

AmarilloFats

There is a god and his name was NickyOD.
I called in a flash and he had 99.
The villain is a french guy...he buys in for $20(again and again)..And eventually gets it +100
If I bet The turn I am essentially putting him all in....He will call rarely with 99, say 20%,and only if he puts me specifically on AK,AQ(big missed cards). If I check, As I did, He will bluff at this (such a nice board to bluff at after I had raised pre flop) very frequently, 80%.

I usually bet 75%-100% of pot on flop...this time I bet 66%..I think that was a small mistake!!!


A biggerstack could have bullied me on the turn but against a bigger stack I would have bet out...
But against this opponent..with his shortstack...


So all in all..what you think??? Good,bad???
NickyOD:Where U at he table???

NickyOD

AmarilloFats wrote:

NickyOD:Where U at he table???

Blah! I wouldn't touch VC Poker again. That site sucks ass!

Hectorjelly

You played it exactly like an missed AK, a check on the turn is only good if you have very deep stacks and want to get to a showdown cheaply or if you have given up on the hand. You should bet $20 on the turn which effectively commits both of you, you have the Qc so if he has the flush he still has some outs. With his stack so low I think its a question of when to get the money in rather than laying the hand down. Shortstacked players like that tend to not fold pocket pairs unless the board has an ace or a king on it, so folding is out of the question.