AMP TEST! Diezel Herbert Vs. Mark IV Vs. Triaxis

Karl Hungus

Found this over on another board, thought it might interest a few heads here.

This lad does a comparison between the aforementioned amps, and has a good few samples. For those of you who don't know, or want to know the specs, this is the Diezel Herbert, and here is the Mesa Boogie Mark IV and Triaxis.

Definetly some interesting tones.

dabhoys

The Herbert seems to have a more rounder tone.

The Mark IV has a very pucnhy tone

The Triaxis was sorta mushy.

I've always wanted a VH-4

Karl Hungus

The Mark IV there really sounds nothing like the one I was playing before, odly enough... I got a far more high-gain "Metal" sound altogether.

feylya

That's why you have knobs on an amp... to get different sounds :rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

Yes, I deserved that. :rolleyes:

Let me re-phrase that statement to say that you can get way more of a Metal sound out of the Mark IV than what that fellow showcases.

dabhoys

Same with the Herbert. That amp was designed for metal sound. Its like 180 watts. Which is sick. I don't think anyone needs that much power. But if your a true follower of the spinal tap way. Then turn it up to 11

Karl Hungus

180 watts?


Gentlemen... BEHOLD!

Fender Metalhead - 500 watts!

feylya

Sheesh, that's old news. Posted about that months ago :rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

So? Does that mean I can't mention it after you've talked about it once before!?

dabhoys

Thats 500 Watts Solid State

180 Watt Valve is = to 432 SS

So the Herbery ain't far off.

I wonder if that Fender head is like a hot rodded version of the Roc pro amp...

Karl Hungus wrote:

180 watts?


Gentlemen... BEHOLD!

Fender Metalhead - 500 watts!

Karl Hungus

No idea. I wouldn't touch one myself, it would be nothing more than a distraction from my main Mesa goals. As far as wattage goes, I think the 85watts the Mark IV has to offer through a 4x12 will be more than enough for anything.

feylya

Karl Hungus wrote:

So? Does that mean I can't mention it after you've talked about it once before!?

Yes. Yes it does.

How the hell could you use 500 Watts anyway? You'd drown out every single instrument by the tone you got a good tone.

dabhoys

Its plenty. I wonder at times what to do the 100 watts I have....

Karl Hungus wrote:

No idea. I wouldn't touch one myself, it would be nothing more than a distraction from my main Mesa goals. As far as wattage goes, I think the 85watts the Mark IV has to offer through a 4x12 will be more than enough for anything.

Karl Hungus

Overhead I suppose?

dabhoys

It does come in handy recording. You just crank it the **** up and wam when you hit that tone it amazing...

Karl Hungus

I *WILL* try your Retco at some stage, man!

feylya

Karl Hungus wrote:

I *WILL* try your Retco at some stage, man!

That a threat or a promise

Karl Hungus

Considering my playing... a threat.

daram

Its 500w into 2ohms. Thats just decieving you. Most amps are into 8ohms, so if it were possible to run the fender metalhead into 8ohms it would only be the equivalent of 200-250w. Which is still loud, but not as loud as they make you believe. I've was introduced to a brand new ampeg bass amp earlier which is 1600watts into 4 and also an older AVT stereo bass amp which is 850W a side (total 1700w) into 8ohms, now thats just silly!

feylya

Bass amp I assume? It's far harder to generate low frequencies. I think the rule is the bass amp should be 3 times the wattage of the guitar amp? Or something like that...

Karl Hungus

That IS silly! :eek:

feylya

Well, if you think about it, a guitarist using a 150W amp is pretty damn loud. In terms of solid states amps, that's about 450W (just roughly). If the bassist has to be 3 times as loud, 1600W isn't huge, especially since volume only double every ten fold increase in wattage...

Karl Hungus

You're quite right, but it does seem like a bit of a silly number at first glance.

daram

But why does a bassist have to be three times louder?

Karl Hungus

daram wrote:

But why does a bassist have to be three times louder?

Er I think he meant to say that the wattage has to be trice that of a guitar amp in bass amplitude to generate the same amount of loudness. It certainly doesn't need to be 3 times as loud.

feylya

Cos bass frequencies are hard to produce, like I said. It's a general rule of thumb. Think of it this way - put a 100 W guitar amp besides a 100W bass amp. Which is louder?

Edit: KH is correct. I was incorrectly using volume to describe wattage. I will now give myself 1000 lashes with a broken instrument cable.

daram

I dont think there harder to produce, just a matter of different speakers. Its just that guitars span a wider frequency range and are easier to hear. In short, yeah I know what you mean, just wondered where you got the number 3 from?

feylya

They are harder to produce. Trust me :P

I don't know where 3 came from either. It's just the magic number....

Karl Hungus

feylya wrote:

KH is correct.

And don't you ever question it!

feylya

You mean like the way you don't like ANY effects?

Karl Hungus

Yes. Exactly. No effects.

feylya

Besides chorus and wah.

Karl Hungus

Yes. Exactly. No effects. Besides chorus and wah.

:mad:

dabhoys

I believe it was the good dr. who gave us the figure of 3 for that...

Doctor J

and I got it from someone else, so there ya go


Regarding the bass VS guitar thing, the human ear is more sensitive to frequencies where the guitar is found and it takes more power to really generate the lower bass frequencies in a way that it competes with a guitar. For a practical example, I played a gig in the hub a while back, two guitar players with 80W solid state Peaveys, me with my 300W Ashdown through a 15", I ran it at about 60% output gain. I was chatting to a bloke afterwards who said "from where I was sitting I couldn't hear the band but I could feel the bass" which would give you some indication of how hard I was pushing it. A few weeks ago I played another gig with the same band but the guitarists now had 60W tube Ashdown Fallen Angels each. For the last few songs I had the output gain at about 90%, input at about 85% and I couldn't really hear myself over the guitars, which were at less than 50% output gain, plus I was playing my 6 string and I had some serious lows at my disposal. To the punters and on the recording of the gig it all sounded just right though. Granted I need another cab to get my speakers at 4 ohms which would give me the full 300W, but with one 8 ohm cab I was putting out almost 240W of bass power. I pity the fool who doesn't wear earplugs in front of that.

daram

Mmm the maths of music...

david

Doctor J wrote:

and I got it from someone else, so there ya go


Regarding the bass VS guitar thing, the human ear is more sensitive to frequencies where the guitar is found and it takes more power to really generate the lower bass frequencies in a way that it competes with a guitar. For a practical example, I played a gig in the hub a while back, two guitar players with 80W solid state Peaveys, me with my 300W Ashdown through a 15", I ran it at about 60% output gain. I was chatting to a bloke afterwards who said "from where I was sitting I couldn't hear the band but I could feel the bass" which would give you some indication of how hard I was pushing it. A few weeks ago I played another gig with the same band but the guitarists now had 60W tube Ashdown Fallen Angels each. For the last few songs I had the output gain at about 90%, input at about 85% and I couldn't really hear myself over the guitars, which were at less than 50% output gain, plus I was playing my 6 string and I had some serious lows at my disposal. To the punters and on the recording of the gig it all sounded just right though. Granted I need another cab to get my speakers at 4 ohms which would give me the full 300W, but with one 8 ohm cab I was putting out almost 240W of bass power. I pity the fool who doesn't wear earplugs in front of that.

Where did the guys get the fallen angels? i cant find one of those anywhere...

feylya

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Ashdown-Fallen-Angel-40-Combo~ID~2307.asp

http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Ashdown-Fallen-Angel-60-Combo~ID~2306.asp

Gentlemen, BEHOLD!

dabhoys

They have them in music maker too...

david

Yeah... for like... a gazillion blips! That soundslive isnt a great price though... I found one for £299 somewhere a while ago but they arent on offer anymore...:mad:

dabhoys

They were selling the old models for next to nothing cuz the new ones have some DSP effects in them.. Not worth it to be honest. I'd prefer the older models...

david

dabhoys wrote:

They were selling the old models for next to nothing cuz the new ones have some DSP effects in them.. Not worth it to be honest. I'd prefer the older models...

Yeah I was looking for the older model... I saw the peacemaker one in there for real cheap like 550, but no fallen angel... How cheap were they?

Doctor J

€399 I believe, one third of whatever the regular price was

dabhoys

Hey Karl, I was doing a bit of maitenance on the old Recto the other day and took the chasis out and had a good look inside. I now know why they cost as much as they do. The quality of workmanship inside is class. Its some serious set up inside there. I'm doing alot of reading into the workings of amps. Really want to learn how they function...

Karl Hungus

That's pretty cool stuff, Dabhoys. Aside from changing the tubes, I know bugger all about amp maintainence. That in itself isn't too bad though because when concerning tube amps any problems are usually due to the tubes. But I know wha you mean about the workmanship, because the Nomad is just the most incredibily solid built son of a bitch I've ever layed my hands on. Hats off to them though.