After life?

Stabshauptmann

Supposed kinda inspired by the recent passing of the Pope;
Do you believe in an after life, what form does it take on?

NeilJ

I believe that we're here to learn. About life, the universe and everything. When I die I believe I will go to a place of rest where I'll be able to reflect on the experiences I've had in this incarnation and also I'll be able to remember and reflect on all the experiences in my previous lives and look at how I've lived and learned in the bigger picture. I'll then be reborn. Where I'm reborn will be largely decided by the lessons which I still need to learn and I'll be reborn in a setting most likely to allow for the kind of experiences I'll need to live through. I also believe in karma, but not in the buddist sense. Rather I believe that karma effects us in our current lives ie. "what goes around comes around". When I've eventually lived and experienced enough to reach a state of enlightment where by I can longer gain wisdom from a material existence I believe I will no longer be reborn as a human. I do however think I'll continue to be reborn on the spiritual plane and this will continue until I reach ultimate enlightment. Don't know what happens then though!!!

stevenmu

I didn't use to believe in any type of after life, the last few years I've been thinking that maybe there is but I have trouble figuring out what it may be like. I think that's because so much of what we percieve as reality is based upon our physical senses, sight/sound/touch etc, none of which really apply once you're dead. That's kind of why I have trouble believing in ghosts and the like, altough I have heard it said that ghosts are spirits that have trouble letting go of the physical world.

I suppose what I believe is that what we think of as conciousness comes from a combination of some kind of sentient energy, which I would equate with the concepts of a spirit or soul, and our physical bodies. This sentient energy may be discrete and individual to each of us our it may be some universal/common thing which binds us all together as one. In the case of it being a discreet energy then it's possible the energy survives our bodies. In the case of it being universal/common then naturally it would continue after our deaths and possibly some pattern or changes made to it by us during our lives would continue on within it.

erm, what I'm trying to say really is that I don't know, haven't the faintest idea, but that's the only way I can see it happening.

Stabshauptmann

but you hit the nail on the head, why is it that we are conscious?
No doubt science can tell us how our brain works etc, but why is it that a certain combination of elements results in life but others dont?
How can we hope to understand death if we dont understand life...

McGinty

For a long time I didn't beleive in after life, until my son, who was five at the time convinced me otherwise. Although christened as a Catholic, I have an interest in spirituality, as well as theology, I tend to have a more new age aprroach to God, however again, although I christened my son (at the time in ignorance) I didn't really teach him much, we never went to mass, and I never discussed my own beliefs with him, so I was amazed when we were talking and he asked me what happens to us when we die. I said I don't know, although a lot of people believe that when we die we go to heaven, (which was and still is somewhat my belief), he said, and I quote 'I believe we die and then we come back into a new body, but sometimes as a different colour'. I was blown away by his statement, he was only five at the time, and then I thought maybe there is something in this reincarnation. Since then I have looked into it, and I genuinely believe we die, then become reborn to learn life lessons. I believe each time we move up a level, sometimes the going is slow, other times we supercede our expectations. There is a point where we reach enlightment, and become more energy rather than matter. I believe in essence we are energy, rather than matter, although our senses tell us we are matter, we feel hard to touch, our world around us mainly feels hard to touch, yet we are energy, one only has to look at the composition of a cell, a small amount of matter surrounded by space. Going back to my point though, when we become enlightened, I'm not sure what happens, maybe we become spirit guides, maybe something else. I really don't know, but its fun guessing.

NeilJ

When I was a kid believed in reincarnation. Then as I got older and was brought up as a Christain I learned to believe in resurrection. Then when I embraced Paganism I went back to my original beliefs in reincarnation and when I talk to my Christain friends I find that a lot of them say that they either believe in reincarnation or at the very least did at some stage when they were younger.

Neil

stevenmu

I do remember thinking about reincarnation when I was very young, I don't think I believed in it fully but it seemed to make a lot more sense then going to heaven (which is what we were learning about in school at the time). Thinking about it now I think that's probably when it first occured to me that there may not be a God, in Christian terms at least. Up untill then it was just something I'd been told was true and had accepted.

Sleepy

Not convinced at all. I'm pretty firm in my belief that once the brain stops firing it's electrical impulses, we're gone.

Morbid maybe, but I find a real liberation in having accepted that what time I have, I have and it's over then.

Goodshape

Copy and paste from a blog entry I made today. It seems perfectly relevent to this discussion though..

--

Many eastern philosophies seem to focus a lot of attention towards death and rebirth. This was highlighted for me again last night when a friend was describing a Dharma Buddha meeting he attended. Apparently much of what was discussed had to do with death and making necessary preparations for it in this life, with the belief that should certain goals be reached you shall achieve transcendence – and if not, you shall be ‘rebirthed’ in this world.

Now, while I don’t really have a problem with this belief, I think they’ve missed the point somewhat. Death is the one thing that each and every one of us will achieve without fail. It’s a global phenomenon and you’re going to get there eventually. Now, does it really seem logical to spend your entire life getting ready for the next? This seems like a pointless loop to me – when you get to the next life are you going to spend your time ‘getting ready’ for the end of that too?

I’m not sure where I picked up this next tidbit of wisdom, but I’m pretty sure I read it ‘somewhere’ (which is the best kind really.. allows me to build upon it without worrying about dogma). Basically ‘Death and Rebirth’ should not be taken to literally mean the end of life and the start of another. Every instant of everyday is death and rebirth - the end of one instance of existence and the start of another.

You should learn to live every moment as though it were both the first and last, taking nothing for granted and excepting (without compromise or anxiety) that everything you experience is transient.

The past is unique to each of us – unique experiences and unique interpretations of them – and is a culmination of all that you have learned. It’s single reason for being is so that you arrive in the Now. And here you are. The past has done its job.

The future is merely a Now that has not yet come into being. It’s impossible to know for sure what will happen when it does and by then you will be too busy worrying about the next future – again getting stuck in a pointless loop, constantly departing and never arriving.

Waking Life : “There's only one instant, and it's right now. And it's eternity.”

I quite like the idea that there is something more than what we see, hear and feel around us. Something more to experience once we shuffle off this mortal coil. But it’s something we’re all going to get to eventually and I don’t feel the need to dwell upon it – there’s plenty to be doing in this life as it is. Death is just another future Now and the only preparation necessary is to maintain a constant open-mind. It’s probably not what you expect.

Stabshauptmann

Sleepy wrote:

Not convinced at all. I'm pretty firm in my belief that once the brain stops firing it's electrical impulses, we're gone.

Morbid maybe, but I find a real liberation in having accepted that what time I have, I have and it's over then.

But what Im wondering sleepy is, I know how my brain transmitts its thoughts, but how does it make them, why to I think?

Smart answers on a postcard to...;)

What if there was a universal consciouness, something that surrounds us all and theres something in us that recieves this. Like, each of us are radios and we recieve a signal. If my radio stops working 2fm isnt gone.

MeatProduct

Sleepy wrote:

Not convinced at all. I'm pretty firm in my belief that once the brain stops firing it's electrical impulses, we're gone.

Hi Sleepy,

I could recommend some practices to you if you would like to experience moving out of your body. This may prove to yourself that your consciousness is not limited to your brain.

Nick

Stabshauptmann

id be interested

Goodshape

Interested here also..
MeatProduct, how about starting a thread on the subject? Post a few links, techniques, experiences, etcetera. I'm sure there are more than a few of us here that would be interested in reading / contributing to it.

MeatProduct

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

id be interested

I've sent a pm your way Captain Redeye.

Nick

MeatProduct

Goodshape wrote:

Interested here also..
MeatProduct, how about starting a thread on the subject? Post a few links, techniques, experiences, etcetera. I'm sure there are more than a few of us here that would be interested in reading / contributing to it.

Great, I'll do that Goodshape. I'm sure others will have much to add to my little amount of knowledge on the topic,

Nick

bounty

Anyone who believes in an after life is an idiot.

When you die, your brain stops working, and your existance will be exactly the same as it was before you were born. Thats the bottom line people, you can hope and wish all you like, its not going to change those cold hard facts.

Goodshape

bounty wrote:

Anyone who believes in an after life is an idiot.

When you die, your brain stops working, and your existance will be exactly the same as it was before you were born. Thats the bottom line people, you can hope and wish all you like, its not going to change those cold hard facts.

Fascinating. Care to back up those cold hard facts with some cold hard evidence?

MeatProduct

bounty wrote:

Anyone who believes in an after life is an idiot.

When you die, your brain stops working, and your existance will be exactly the same as it was before you were born. Thats the bottom line people, you can hope and wish all you like, its not going to change those cold hard facts.

The brain does indeed stop working. Does that mean that the consciousness cannot move from the brain after brain death has occured?

Nick

stevenmu

bounty wrote:

Anyone who believes in an after life is an idiot.

When you die, your brain stops working, and your existance will be exactly the same as it was before you were born. Thats the bottom line people, you can hope and wish all you like, its not going to change those cold hard facts.

Perhaps you'd like to volunteer for a scientific experiment to backup your position ? If not you're just believing whatever you want to believe, same as we are.

You are possibly not aware of this but many of the most famous and prominent scientists believed in God and an after-life, would you call Albert Einstein an idiot ?

stevenmu

Sleepy wrote:

Not convinced at all. I'm pretty firm in my belief that once the brain stops firing it's electrical impulses, we're gone.

Morbid maybe, but I find a real liberation in having accepted that what time I have, I have and it's over then.

That's exactly what I used to believe, I too found it quite a nice way to feel. I know that some people believe in an after-life mainly because they want to and they can't handle the fact that they or there loved ones have/will cease to exist. I'm not really sure what my current belief (perhaps belief-in-progress) is based on, I suppose it's a lot of little things, but I try to second guess myself all the time and make sure I'm not just trying convince myself of something out of a desire for immortality or something. I'd much prefer to be proved wrong than to delude myself.

mathie

stevenmu wrote:

Perhaps you'd like to volunteer for a scientific experiment to backup your position ? If not you're just believing whatever you want to believe, same as we are.

You are possibly not aware of this but many of the most famous and prominent scientists believed in God and an after-life, would you call Albert Einstein an idiot ?

Not to re-open an already re-opened issue but how can you believe in God when there is zero proof?
M

Goodshape

stevenmu -
Sounds similar to my own ideas as well. The idea that there is absolutely nothing after death I find very reassuring. It leaves nothing to look forward to, but also nothing to fear, worry or even think about.

I believed that I think as a rebellion against the Catholic dogma - and I certainly wasn't presented with any other possibilities by 'religious' teachers at the time. But growing up and moving on I realised that there are actually a lot of different and far more reasonable and even plausible ideas as to what could happen after this life.

The only thing I truly believe at the moment is that I don't have the answers - and probably won't until I gain some first hand experience (ie. death). As I said above there's no point in dwelling upon it really.. we'll all be dead eventually and it will either be nothing, in which case any kind of shock, horror or disappointment will be impossible, or it will be 'something' - which, if you are willing - will no doubt be the most amazing thing you've ever experienced.

stevenmu

I personally don't believe in a "God" as such, especially not one like Christianity/Islam/Similar. I base my beliefs (altough they're probably better describe as thoughts,ideas or suspicions) on things that I've heard or read which just seem right, and on personal experiences. As such I can't really prove to anyone else I'm right or even on the right track. I haven't discounted the possibility I was or am dillusional I try to be as open to the possibility that I'm completly wrong as I am to the possibility that I'm right, in fact I'm pretty sure I'm not completly right just hopefully going in the right direction.

Keep in mind that there was no proof that the earth was round until somebody actually went and actually proved it.

Goodshape

mathie wrote:

Not to re-open an already re-opened issue but how can you believe in God when there is zero proof?
M

First of all you have to work out what you mean when you say 'God'. Many people think very differently about this.

There's a lengthy and ongoing discussion about this very topic over on the the Philosophy forum.

mathie

Goodshape wrote:

First of all you have to work out what you mean when you say 'God'. Many people think very differently about this.

There's a lengthy and ongoing discussion about on this very topic over on the the Philosophy forum.

Cheers!

stevenmu

Goodshape wrote:

The only thing I truly believe at the moment is that I don't have the answers - and probably won't until I gain some first hand experience (ie. death). As I said above there's no point in dwelling upon it really.. we'll all be dead eventually and it will either be nothing, in which case any kind of shock, horror or disappointment will be impossible, or it will be 'something' - which, if you are willing - will no doubt be the most amazing thing you've ever experienced.

Exactly, I've always loved puzzles and mysteries, and this is easily the best out of all of them. I'd love to be able to figure it out but even if I can't I'll still enjoy trying to. Maybe we're better off not knowing for sure, it'd spoil the surprise at the end


Incidentally I've died a few times in dreams and found it to be a very realxing experience.

transperson

i am a falling droplet

i will return to the ocean

i will disperse and evaporate

then i will become a droplet once again




this general type of idea appeals to me, hindu Atman and Brahman, platonic soul and great soul, the return of the energy that makes me back into the system that made me, it crops up in loads of different worldveiws.

there is no real after life more a continuous process of existence, the only change is in form.

stevenmu

Kind of like the Gaia and Akashic (sp?) Records ideas. I've never heard it expressed like that though, which is odd because it seems so obvious now that I've read it.

Oryx

I dont believe in an afterlife I believe this is a 'prelife' and what we go on to is the real deal. We come here to be mortal and experience pain and pleasure and emotion and learn from that. Every life lived has a lesson, be it a child who lives for a moment, or a serial killer who destroys the lives of others. Sometimes we teach others sometimes the lesson is ours. Death is not the end, its going home. At a funeral I feel sad for myself, not the person who has died, I think its a joyful experience for them.

I think the 'other side' is a place where we are free from the physical, we loose our obsession with possessing and can live and commune on a higher level I cant begin to understand, being flesh and blood right now . It is a place beyond our tiny minds or scientific ideas, which is only explained to us through metaphors (this can be when we meditate). Maybe religion is based on such metaphors, which is why we have such rigid things as heaven and hell and purgatory

Stabshauptmann

transperson wrote:

i am a falling droplet

i will return to the ocean

i will disperse and evaporate

then i will become a droplet once again




this general type of idea appeals to me, hindu Atman and Brahman, platonic soul and great soul, the return of the energy that makes me back into the system that made me, it crops up in loads of different worldveiws.

there is no real after life more a continuous process of existence, the only change is in form.

Thats so sublimly simple.
Ive never heard reincarnation expressed so well and so natural

stevenmu

KatieK wrote:

I dont believe in an afterlife I believe this is a 'prelife' and what we go on to is the real deal. We come here to be mortal and experience pain and pleasure and emotion and learn from that. Every life lived has a lesson, be it a child who lives for a moment, or a serial killer who destroys the lives of others. Sometimes we teach others sometimes the lesson is ours. Death is not the end, its going home. At a funeral I feel sad for myself, not the person who has died, I think its a joyful experience for them.

I think the 'other side' is a place where we are free from the physical, we loose our obsession with possessing and can live and commune on a higher level I cant begin to understand, being flesh and blood right now . It is a place beyond our tiny minds or scientific ideas, which is only explained to us through metaphors (this can be when we meditate). Maybe religion is based on such metaphors, which is why we have such rigid things as heaven and hell and purgatory

Do you think that we retain much about ourselves when we cross over, such as our personalities and memories ? How do you think we would then view the physical existence we have now, would we be very aware of it ? Would we view it at distinct points in space and time or just be kind of aware of it all at once ? (i.e. would a spirit 'looking down' be 'seeing' you as you are right now or would they be 'seeing' everyone and everything at all times, kind of omnipotent)

Sorry, I realise they're tricky questions, but from your previous posts I'd be really interested to hear what you think, feel free not to answer if you'd prefer.

Oryx

I think initially, we do retain much of ourselves. I think it depends on how good your life was here, and how sudden your passing was, on how easily you let go of 'you'. I like to understand it as people that pass on have a lot of love for those they leave behind, and they may not want to move forward until they are happy we are ok, or maybe until we have gone on with them. Unhappy souls may not want to leave behind unfinished business or possessions. (I think higher souls remember everyone they ever were, and can use these guises when communicating with us, so as to have a form we can relate to.)

Im not sure about the moving through time bit, any experience I have had has been with souls close to us, who have not moved up the ladder, so to speak , I think on the higher levels the spirit can move at will through time, it is fairly irrelevant to them, I had what you might call an insight into this once while meditating but I honestly am lost for words as to how to explain it.

stevenmu

KatieK wrote:

I think initially, we do retain much of ourselves. I think it depends on how good your life was here, and how sudden your passing was, on how easily you let go of 'you'. I like to understand it as people that pass on have a lot of love for those they leave behind, and they may not want to move forward until they are happy we are ok, or maybe until we have gone on with them. Unhappy souls may not want to leave behind unfinished business or possessions. (I think higher souls remember everyone they ever were, and can use these guises when communicating with us, so as to have a form we can relate to.)

Thanks, that explains a lot. Sometimes I think I just need to hear things over and over in slightly different ways to understand it.

KatieK wrote:

Im not sure about the moving through time bit, any experience I have had has been with souls close to us, who have not moved up the ladder, so to speak , I think on the higher levels the spirit can move at will through time, it is fairly irrelevant to them, I had what you might call an insight into this once while meditating but I honestly am lost for words as to how to explain it.

I'm sure they'd be wasted on me anyway, but I think I get the general idea.

Ruadan

Reincarnation, Karma, Enlightnment, Nirvana (a state of non existance)
All fairly Buddist, but i've come to believe in the idea of the Eternal Spiral as a representation of the path we take, moving from the periphary to the centre, each path unique and encompassing manyfold reincarnations, from amoebas, fleeting beings, up through trees and gods to oneness.

(and just to comment on a fiew posts i saw, matter is energy there is no distinction, e=mc2 )

downandout

stevenmu wrote:

Do you think that we retain much about ourselves when we cross over, such as our personalities and memories ?

The best guide is the testimony of the Near Death Experiencers (who all but die on the operating table and have out of body experiences). Check out Raymond Moody's books - it seems that yes, we retain much about ourselves, but the 'we' who is doing this expands in an extraordinary and indescribable way

ether

We won't know until our time has come, but the way i see it we believe in other things throughout our daily lives why not the after life? I've heard people saying theres no proof, but theres no proof that there isn't either.
In a way its like a safety net for all your fears of dying, if you have any.

Stabshauptmann

I think I heard a bible basher in america give "mathematical proof once". Twas funny.
He constucted a little table, 2X2, benifit if our right, cost if your wrong on top and believe, not believe on the side. Like I said, proof :rolleyes:

CerebralCortex

mathie wrote:

Not to re-open an already re-opened issue but how can you believe in God when there is zero proof?
M

The question you(I think) should be asking is where is the proof that he/she/it doesn't exist.