ludo game programming course

black_wizardd

anyone know anything about the ludo games programming course in dublin....is it good, bad???....what do they do??.....is it really basic stuff???....c i have (hope to have) a diploma in computer programming by march but i would like to do games programming above all the other c**p out there so i want to do some course that concentrates on it....any help would be appreciated.....

satchmo

Never heard of it. It took me a while to find their page (indigo.ie/~ludo) but it wasn't encouraging.
I'd say you're better off learning it yourself. There's more than enough game programming tutorials/sites out there (GameDev.net is a great place to start), and if you're any good you can teach yourself faster than they would move anyway.

havok*

Black_wizard , I done the LUDO course last year. And it fupping ROCKED!.
however its not programming orantated to be honest. Its more gear towards the multimedia (graphics, sound) side of the industry.
a run down of the subjects would be.
**CORE Subjects**

3d studio max - maily modeling , mapping , animation and effects.

Game Design - Half discussion on the state of the industry, Game history (u'll play TONS of old, forign, and weird games here), exemaning genre by genre.

Visual Basic Programming - uughhh, dont ask

***Other***
Photoshop - making maps, tilling techniques, graphic design

Sound - digital sound recording and editing, wav, midi ect

storyboarding - self explainatory

Web - bit on web devolopment in there too.

black_wizardd

cheers jazz n havok....hmmm pitty that theres no programming....the 3d studio sounds groovy though...anyway once again cheers.... )

black_wizardd

what the hell is that red face.....howd i do that....

Cake Fiend

It's ******** if you're looking for programming only, which disappointed me, but it taught me a hell of a lot about the industry in general, working as part of a team and working in 'crunch time' (and a fair bit about LAN gaming )

If you're looking for a job in the games industry I highly reccomend the course, but you'd never get a programming job based solely on your Ludo certificate. If you can line up a programming course to do afterwards, or learn during the course, you're sorted. If you've never programmed before, VB is a nice easy way to start, but it's **** all good on its own for game programming at the end of the day.

black_wizardd

sico.....i will have a diploma in computer programming in march and i have done a weeeeeeeeee bit of games programming before....altought it was in (ahem) vb (ahem)..i do plan on maybe tryin more games programming over the summer....this time in c/c++.....do u know would the above cr!p along with the ludo jobby get me into a games company....if not programming then designing skins etc....since i was told ludo does alot of 3d studio stuff.....

Shinji

It's not really that easy. Very few game companies will employ you as a coder on the strength of qualifications; they're usually much more interested in a portfolio of work. LUDO and a diploma in programming are a good start (although you should seriously consider doing the extra few years and getting a full degree in programming) but you really need to be working on your own projects and portfolio in your free time, so you have something to show. This isn't to say that you WON'T get a job in the industry on the strength of LUDO + diploma, just that it'll be easier if you have previous work of your own to demonstrate your skills.

The other option, of course, is to enter the industry as a tester and gradually work your way up into design/coding roles. This is difficult to do, though, and testing is very unrewarding work.

satchmo

While we're on about it, are there any game companies in Ireland?
There must be, I just don't ever seem to hear of them.

black_wizardd

yep....therez the company who made that greystation game speed freaks.....funcom....they seem like a groovy company....try their site www.funcom.com there based in the big schmoke....




[This message has been edited by black_wizardd (edited 14-12-2000).]

Da Bounca

i know a lad doing that course in scotland,hes in his second year and is already miles ahead of eveyone else,hes just one of those people who know stuff.
hes about 21 and hes being paid something like 15k to write a book on the industry of gaming and stuff.

havok*

I know this migth be abit far off for ya but...
Right, i had been told that there was aparently a games course in scotland.
Had searched and searched but could never find it.
One of the lads on last years course found it. Apperntly its 4 years, u can do a 5th and actully make a game.
Also theres 2 versions of the course 1. for the multimedia side of the industry, 3d, 2d, mapping, sound ect (which is what i'm seriously considering doing)
the second is on the programming end of things.
Considering its taylored towards game programming this might be exactly what ur looking for.
aint got the name of the collage yet, all that is from what i was told. I'l be getting on to him, hopefuly get more info + a prospectus off him.
i'll keep yaz informed.....

---

Clan Acid
Clan Bio

Shinji

That'll be the Computer Games Technology and Virtual Environments course in the University of Abertay and Dundee - http://www.tay.ac.uk if memory serves. Damn good course; Dave Jones, founder of DMA Design, went to university there, and he helped them set up the course.

Ja,
Rob

Cake Fiend

Just FYI, at least two ex-Ludo students went to Funcom, and one lad from mine and Havok's year left the course in like the 3rd week to go to work for Rare (presumably on the strength of previous experience though)

spod

another irish games programming type company is havok.

http://www.havok.com/

It's games physics engine stuff but they do have ps/2s and x-boxs (soon) to play with etc.

It's pretty ardcore techy stuff, need at least a decent cs degree to get in.

It's run by a guy who used to lecture me in first year cs in tcd.

Cake Fiend

Hehe, guess where 'Havok' got his nick...

havok*

indeed

yer werked for them b4,
they needed ppl who could do 3d modeling, texture making and mapping and game design. To make demo's for them to show off there engine @ the san Jose game developers conferance 2000.
they could'nd efford to pay industry profrssionals to do it. So they took 3 ppl from ludo.
t'was a bout the sam time the i was getting connected, and liked the name so much i stole it for my nick

hear there doing really really well now'n days.
nice wan ladz.

---

Clan Acid
Clan Bio

Void

Heheh, the entire Image Synthesis research group at TCD left to set up Havok. Dr Steve Collins is the main guy. He's an absolute savage. During the 80's he wrote games for the C64. Anyone remember Paradroid? Brilliant. What year were you doing cs spod?
He lectured me in '95 for the 1ba3 assembly course.

black_wizardd

cheers for all the help lads....appreciate it....does anyone know the answer to the following.....if u have done a diploma can u skip forward in that degree in scotland that ur talkin about maybe to 2nd or 3rd year...or do u have to start in 1st yr.....i definatley could'nt hack another 4yrs of college.....

Baz_

I can, thats why I'm applying for it, but I'm not sure I'll get in - I've done three years, or I will have by the summer, but when I heard about that course I just had to apply. You never know though I might see one or more of you over there...

spod

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Void:
Heheh, the entire Image Synthesis research group at TCD left to set up Havok. [/B/</font>

Not the *entire* isg, just the good ones.
They left Carol O'Sullivan running the place, shudder.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Dr Steve Collins is the main guy. He's an absolute savage. During the 80's he wrote games for the C64. Anyone remember Paradroid? Brilliant. What year were you doing cs spod?
He lectured me in '95 for the 1ba3 assembly course.</font>

I had steve in '97 for ba3, he rocked. Shame he's gone.

Thrasher

Havok are doing the physics models for Kapooki now... a fairly young Irish on-line game software house. The Havok stuff is really nice.

SCRUB

there doing the what ?

Void

The Kapooki game isn't real 3D, the fighting is pretty much just like Final Fantasy VII, no real physics or anything. Just turn based attack/defence with pretty graphics. They said they were using Havok stuff, but I doubt it. Their game isn't hardcore enough. Kapooki do their coding in C as well, not C++, disappointing. I'm tryin to get a job with them.

Void

If anyone is interested, here is a list of useful libraries I use for Void.
These libraries have saved me a lot of time!
All of the following are free for hobby developers.

Collision Detection: SOLID 2.0
http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/tt/gino/solid/

Graphics: OpenGL
http://www.opengl.org

Image loading: OpenIL (takes all the pain out of writing your own tga loading code)
http://openil.sourceforge.net

Sound: FMOD (many commercial games use this - very good)
http://www.fmod.org

Input: DirectX (lalalallalalal)

Particle Systems: Particle System API (handy, lack textured particles though, writing my own to get around this) http://www.cs.unc.edu/~davemc/Particle/




[This message has been edited by Void (edited 12-01-2001).]

Baz_

hey void
I'm looking for an exact link to where you can get the opengl include files, I have gone searching for them and I either just can't find them or have problems downloading them, I have the directx directx sdk but I can't seem to get it to work properly grrrr...

So anyway I've decided to try openGL but like I say I've been having problems in just getting the include files.

ta in advance

Void

No worries Baz, I can sort you out.
Getting started off with stuff like this is a real cúnt, took me ages, but I can help you avoid the main pitfalls.

Firstly, what compiler are you using? I use Visual C++ 6.0, and it comes with the OpenGL include files in the started path <GL/gl.h> etc. One file that isn't included is glext.h, you only need this to use extensions though.

I can mail you the include files, but I think they are Microsoft specific ones?? I need to know more about your setup. Mail me at peter.walsh@compenv.ie.

As for the DirectX things, you gotta make sure the include and lib directories are added to you compilers path.


[This message has been edited by Void (edited 12-01-2001).]

black_wizardd

anyone....does the ludo course teach u alot about 3d modelling and general graphic design.....cause i've been into art since i was a toddler and only recently have gotten a flare for it again...i would really like to get into 3d modelling and general graphic design......what are the employment opportunities like.....does the course have work placement..... if so what r the chances of gettin permanent placement....maybe making 3d models for games/anything like that.....

[This message has been edited by black_wizardd (edited 15-01-2001).]

Cake Fiend

You could say the core subject is 3d modelling, through 3D Studio MAX (version 2.5 when I were a lad, they're probably using at least 3.1 at this stage). There's also 2d graphics work (Photoshop, Paintshop) for texture maps, etc.

havok*

just something to add, no ludo will not find u a job. thats up to urself tbh.
there will be companys in near the end of the year taking a look round, codmasters, funcom came in to us, sure the head animater @ disney and the minister for education of all of america came of up guess apearences during the year.
btw in the area of art/design ballyfremot college is ranked 3rd on earth

Cake Fiend

Heh, it was a bit weird being dragged away from Quake 0wnerage being told "here, Funcom are looking for you"

Void

WARNING: Personal Opinion.

Funcom are a shower of pr1cks.

Entering rant mode.

When I interviewed with them I got the impression that they were extremely uptight (DOCUMENT MY CODE??? WHAT???). Even though I destroyed their little exam (2 hours - Assembly, 3D Mathematics, OOP), and caught their senior programmer out on a C++ question he asked me, they STILL wouldn't give me the "Senior X-Box Developer" position. And offered me a "3DS MAX Tools programmer" position. Well actually, I reckon it's because their senior programmer lad took a dislike to me, coz I was taking the p1ss out of him during the interview. This incredibly geeky guy (only about 27, with a beard and sandals) had the fúcking nerve to ask me the "Where do you see yourself in five years?" question. That was like a red rag to a bull, so I had to tell him that I envisioned myself with a "beard and sandals". The two other HR people at the interview promptly fell over laughing, leaving him frowning in my direction
I probably should have taken the position they offered me, but it would have meant a fifteen thousand pound pay hit, and getting on a dart, then a bus to get to Sandyford Industrial Estate every day. Fúck that. I was all disillusioned there for a while because I thought Funcom were the only Irish games company. Not anymore: firstly, Funcom are Norwegian, secondly, Kapooki Games (http://www.kapookigames.com) are here. These guys are cool, their office is on Talbot Street (that's in Dublin City Centre for the benefit of muckers), and they are laid back (Counter Strike after work etc). They're looking for programmers and 3d artists, so give them a shout. As an aside: If anyone beats me to a job there I'll hunt them down...

Edit:
Yeah, I didn't really explain properly why Funcom are pr1cks, allow me to elaborate. They aren't pr1cks as such, it's just that I don't like to work surrounded by bureaucracy. Kapooki is run by a bunch of guys who are about my age (I'm 22, they're about 25), dead sound, and like playing games. The difference between the interviews was unimaginable. The Kapooki guys caught me off-guard by asking me "What makes a good computer game??". I actually drew a blank there for a while, before launching into the "Different strokes for different folks, Tony Hawk vs Civilisation" spiel.
"Necrosoft" is a far superior name for a games company than "Kapooki", I issued my first Necrosoft invoice the other day, complete with jolly roger etc. Anyone fancy doing a 3DS Necrosoft animation? I have a realtime transparent skull at the moment, with NECROSOFT textured around it.
Sorry 'bout that, I'll be quiet now

[This message has been edited by Void (edited 26-01-2001).]

Baz_

well void if you do get in there, let them know you have a friend, well not a friend really an acquaintance, well we're not technically acquaintances either, just tell them you know some wierd dude, who sends you messages, who's looking for a summer job.

ta