Installing Gentoo

Raz

I''m installing on a socket A Athlon XP and I was wondering what type of distribution I should get. I know it's x86 or i686 for the different Intels, is it the same for the amd?
I've used redhat before but I was thinking of going for something a bit harder.
I've yet to read through the install manual but what Stage install should I do? It'll be on the home network so what should I take into consideration with this?

Fenster

I'm currently wrestling with Gentoo on my laptop. For all I deride them as ricers, it is a learning experience.

I will warn you though: Installation is semi-welll documented (it goes into all the steps, but doesn't really elaborate on what those commands do, in a lot of cases), but after that you're on your own. Oh the joys of configuring networking, sound and video by hand.

But to answer your question, you need the amd64 package, lest I be mistaken. The different stages can be summed as follows:

Stage 1: Nearly every package is compiled from scratch. This makes it a 2-day installation process (downloading packages and bootstrapping the system can take upward of eight hours).

Stage 2: Some packages are installed as binaries. This saves on installation time.

Stage 3: Most packages are binary installs. This is the fastest installation.

However, I will say that for all that some claim its purely anecdotal, I have noticed a performance difference between Gnome on my laptop under Gentoo, as compared to Fedora.

Red Alert

Yeah i've noticed the performance boost too - still wrestling with ACPI and the built-in sound but getting there.

If you're laptops got an ATI Radeon card, there might be some hassle - just run emerge a slightly different way - if you need the command just ask and i'll look for it for ya as i can't remember off the top of my head.

Fenster

Red Alert wrote:

Yeah i've noticed the performance boost too - still wrestling with ACPI and the built-in sound but getting there.

If you're laptops got an ATI Radeon card, there might be some hassle - just run emerge a slightly different way - if you need the command just ask and i'll look for it for ya as i can't remember off the top of my head.

Mine has an ATI card. If you're not going for 3D effects, just stick with the vesa driver, as the radeon and ati drivers respectively (as in those that come with xorg) are tricksy. They might work or they might hard-lock your machine.

Raz

Fenster wrote:

But to answer your question, you need the amd64 package, lest I be mistaken. The different stages can be summed as follows:

Stage 1: Nearly every package is compiled from scratch. This makes it a 2-day installation process (downloading packages and bootstrapping the system can take upward of eight hours).

Stage 2: Some packages are installed as binaries. This saves on installation time.

Stage 3: Most packages are binary installs. This is the fastest installation.

Are you sure it's the amd64 package? It's an Athlon XP, not the newer 64. I thought it was an x86 based processor?

I think I'll be going with the Stage 3 setup myself

maxheadroom

Raz wrote:

Are you sure it's the amd64 package? It's an Athlon XP, not the newer 64. I thought it was an x86 based processor?

I think I'll be going with the Stage 3 setup myself

No - you want to downoad the athlon XP stage three tarballs. Get it from here

Fenster

I stand corrected.

Raz

maxheadroom wrote:

No - you want to downoad the athlon XP stage three tarballs. Get it from here

so does that mean I don't need the universal install CD?

Raz

Okay I think I'm getting my head around this. I need both, the universal and then the stage tarball. Got that from this document.
Looks like something to read through thoroughly.

Edit: Okay, I've got this universal iso file,
install-x86-universal-2005.0.iso
(I'm still not certain if it should be the x86 version, can anyone clarify for certain?)
I'm also downloading the stage 3 file,
stage3-athlon-xp-2005.0.tar.bz2
(athlon-xp in the name, I think I'm onto a winner there! )
I'll get the package CD aswell as I won't have a internet connection on the system I'm setting it up on.

That should be everything I need, then I'll give the install docs a good read and I'm ready to go. Is there anything I'm missing here?
Seems a bit of a waste to use a CD for the stage3 tarball since it's only 85MB. I could have a network connection to my laptop (win xp), could I use that instead of wasting a full CD?

Ste-

If you want Gentoo the easy way try http://desktop.vidalinux.com/
It's gentoo with the Anaconda installer. Only stage3 of course but it's handy, if like me you've never got gentoo installed or the time to bother.

eggshapedfred

its been a while since I've done a gentoo install (and did it from a covermount dvd) but you could probably stick the stage3 tarball on a usb memory stick.

don't vidalinux charge for their distro? or is it just the binary packages post-install that you have to pay for?

Red Alert

The ATI drivers are grand. I have direct render and about 900FPS on glxgears. You just have to e-merge them properly.

Raz

How about drivers for a GeForce FX card? Are the ones on the nVidia website good? If so, do you install them after the Gentoo install is complete or are they included in the CD?

Raz

I've burned the CD's, well the universal and the packages, I'm going to try doing the Stage 3 from my USB key.
Anyway, I've run into something that might be considered a problem. I boot using the CD fine and I get to the boot: prompt. I just pressed enter to run with the default kernel config and I got a nice display showing the Gentoo logo and and the version 2005.0 in the bottom right.
It sat at that for 5mins before I rebooted and decided to do the memtest86.
That's running now and sees everything correctly,
Athlon XP 2205 MHz
nVidia nforce2, FSB 200Mhz
RAM: 200Mhz DDR400 CAS: 2-2-2-8 single channel.
Was I just a bit impatient with the load or should it be a bit more snappy?
It'd be nice to see a progress bar if it's going to take a while.

nadir

hmm, it should go fast,
I had a problem on one of my machines at home, a dual p3 scsi box.
I needed to turn off acpi to get it to boot
'acpi=nopci'
thats pretty good practice anyway though

eggshapedfred

you probably want to turn off dhcp as well seeing as you're doing a networkless install. can't remember the parameter though. but that could be what's holding it up

Raz

Okay I'll do both of those, when putting in multiple options at the prompt are they just seperated by a space?

nadir

acpi=noirq

is the boot option I use, but you may also want to try "acpi=nopci"


and yes you can separate kernel option with spaces.

Raz

I've tried several options and it's still not going anywhere.
nodhcp,
acpi=noirq,
acpi=nopci,
nohotplug,
ide=nodma

none of these have worked. It loads as far as that first graphic screen, accesses the CD a couple of times and then stops and after a minute the CD drive spins down.
Does anybody have any suggestions?

Edit: is there a verbose option for the install?

nadir

wierd, I've never seen a problem like this with gentoo.
report this on http://bugs.gentoo.org/ please
and also throw it up on the forums, you are sure to get a response.

Raz

Will do.

nadir

Fenster wrote:

I'm currently wrestling with Gentoo on my laptop. For all I deride them as ricers, it is a learning experience.

I will warn you though: Installation is semi-welll documented (it goes into all the steps, but doesn't really elaborate on what those commands do, in a lot of cases), but after that you're on your own. Oh the joys of configuring networking, sound and video by hand.

But to answer your question, you need the amd64 package, lest I be mistaken. The different stages can be summed as follows:

Stage 1: Nearly every package is compiled from scratch. This makes it a 2-day installation process (downloading packages and bootstrapping the system can take upward of eight hours).

Stage 2: Some packages are installed as binaries. This saves on installation time.

Stage 3: Most packages are binary installs. This is the fastest installation.

However, I will say that for all that some claim its purely anecdotal, I have noticed a performance difference between Gnome on my laptop under Gentoo, as compared to Fedora.

ARGH!!!
I just read your post fenster
and .. dood ..
Gentoo Documentation is quite simply the best out there, I dont know how u an call it 'semi-welll documented' . In fact I dont know where this anti gentoo attitude comes from, and it's not just u . I got into gentoo cause it was the only distro that I found people to be activly helpful with. The forums and wiki's were amazing and people were always ready to help on irc any time I got stuck.
It is deadly configuring sound and networking by hand, and building the kernel and all that, everything about it rules, after I finished my first install I remember thinking, wow, that ruled, I actually know how stuff works now.
Since I started Gentoo, Ive never had any critical problems, cause I know how to fix anything that goes wrong. Its like positive and stuff
btw, what's a ricer, and am I one? Oo

scojones

I have to agree with nadir on this one. Gentoo is superbly documented and the community are extremely helpful and tolerant. By doing a stage 1 install of Gentoo I really feel that I have learnt alot from it - alot more than poking around with different distros every couple of months. If you guys don't mind a bit of a learning curve, and a bit of a wait, go do a stage 1 install.

WizZard

Yeah, Gentoo from stage 1 is a must if you want to have an idea what goes on behind the scenes!
It's been a while since I've used it, had it on my last laptop but don't have that anymore. I might try setting it up again on my new PC, but IIRC installing to an SATA RAID setup is annoying to say the least.

Fenster

nadir wrote:

ARGH!!!
I just read your post fenster
and .. dood ..
Gentoo Documentation is quite simply the best out there, I dont know how u an call it 'semi-welll documented' . In fact I dont know where this anti gentoo attitude comes from, and it's not just u . I got into gentoo cause it was the only distro that I found people to be activly helpful with. The forums and wiki's were amazing and people were always ready to help on irc any time I got stuck.
It is deadly configuring sound and networking by hand, and building the kernel and all that, everything about it rules, after I finished my first install I remember thinking, wow, that ruled, I actually know how stuff works now.
Since I started Gentoo, Ive never had any critical problems, cause I know how to fix anything that goes wrong. Its like positive and stuff
btw, what's a ricer, and am I one? Oo

lol, if you've ever seen Gentoo-ers posting on Slashdot, you'd understand. They post insanely stupid things, quite simply.

As far as documentation goes, it tells you what to do, but not why you do that or how that command functions. It leads to someone going through the commands without actually learning much.

Oh, and if anyone has decent ATI Radeon Mobility 7000 drivers, PM me. The default ones that come with FC3 hardlock my laptop and vesa ones are acting odd since the last xorg patch.

nadir

Here u go Fenster
gentoo ricing
http://funroll-loops.org/

ahaha, I particurly like.

"If Debian people think compiling sucks, well so what? I guess they're satisfied with Someone Else's Binaries. I prefer to play on Gentoo's strengths. I get exactly what I want compiled in -- nothing less, nothing more, and with the optimizations I want."

ugh, the thought of using someone elses bins. heh

you know fenster, I could start to dig this attitude!!!

"Having said that, it looks like the guys doing the testing got their CFLAGS wrong. Gentoo's performance should never be worse than Mandrake -- I reckon they forgot omit-frame-pointer."

ahaha, legend

hostyle

If I was to install gentoo from stage 1 (iso already downloaded) how much data is going to pulled down during the rest of installation? Are we talking 20-30Mb? 100Mb? 100Mb+? ie. just to have a usable box. No window manager or anything. I can install all the cruft later.

The "amazing documentation" doesn't mention this anywhere Nor what you actually have after stage1 - what are the core packages?

Fenster

hostyle wrote:

If I was to install gentoo from stage 1 (iso already downloaded) how much data is going to pulled down during the rest of installation? Are we talking 20-30Mb? 100Mb? 100Mb+? ie. just to have a usable box. No window manager or anything. I can install all the cruft later.

The "amazing documentation" doesn't mention this anywhere Nor what you actually have after stage1 - what are the core packages?

A stage1 install basically grabs the sources for the packages you're using off the net and compiles them. I did stage3 myself, emerging those apps that I felt needed it-xorg (*wince*), Fluxbox, Gnome, KDE and a couple of others.

There's nothing to stop you doing a full stage 3 and then runinng emerge -e world once you get it running. Although you might need the Lord of the Rings on hand...

nadir

well, me being such a fanboy and all, I'll have to defend. People obviosly have a problem with gentoo, it amuzes me It's a great distro, and a great community

Hostyle, id say for a desktop install about 100 M
for a generic server setup, 30 - 40 M

hostyle

nadir wrote:

well, me being such a fanboy and all, I'll have to defend. People obviosly have a problem with gentoo, it amuzes me It's a great distro, and a great community

Hostyle, id say for a desktop install about 100 M
for a generic server setup, 30 - 40 M

30-40 is doable at home. Thanks.

nadir

if its dialup yeah sure, I mean I used to grab about 5 gigs a month on dial up,
which i believe was the eircom cap at the time for broadband.

hostyle

Before I delve deep into the docs/gentoo forums anyone know what I have to do to get gentoo stage1 installer to detect / use my wireless card? Its an Orinoco PCMCIA silver card (which works in every linux distro i've tried) and dmesg picks up the PCMCIA adapter as being detected (YENTA?). Its been a while since I messed with the wireless basics, so I just assumed it'd work.

EDIT
OK, I need to enable PCMCIA, then run net-setup and iwconfig. Stupid machine has stopped booting from CD though.