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Sony vs Apple
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04-04-2005 1:18pm#1
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dearg_doom wrote:Was that reply directed at me?
Because I was pointing out that the two laptops are different, one being a PC, the other a Mac!
It has your name at the top of it.
Your orignal comment though, was what I was thinking myself... krinpit picked you up wrong. 0 -
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krinpit wrote:
Most software is only released for one or the other.
incorrect.
Most software has a comparative version available. Microsoft, Macromedia etc all develop their products for both platforms.
the reasons for this are two fold. Most journalists are mac users(newspaper & design world) - too powerful to ignore.
Most mac users would be power users. i.e they use their computers. So despite having a market share of only 6% or so, a much higher percentage of that 6% would have a need for the powerful programs and apps than the PC users.
I've a powerbook (iBook big brother), thought long and hard re: the switch. I would genuinely not look back. And recommend them (at length ) to anyone who will listen 0 -
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doesn't mean a thingcase_sensitive wrote:Sorry uberwolf, I know you're a mod an' all
what I was trying to say that just about anything you want to do on a PC, can be done on a mac as well. Nearly all major pieces of software have a comparable version across the various platforms, but while most productivity software (particularly Adobe stuff) comes out for both platforms, software *is* released for one or the other, aside from a handful of cases, you don't get both versions on a disk.The reality is that people share software too, it's *much* easier to try out PC software than Mac stuff. Also, Mac software is f-in' expensive, even if it is lovely. Final cut is great, but there are much cheaper and almost as good Pc versions. Who really pays €1079 for one piece of software unless they are making a living out of it? Don't say iMovie can do it, it really can't.
TBH it's as easy to locate cracked software for one OS as it is the other. You just gotta know where to look. The Mac forum has a thread with some good places to startThat said, there are nice things about the Mac, the screens are amazing, the accessories are tasteful and cool, and iLife comes with all of them!
Overall, the Mac 'experience' is much better, the first time you use the dock, you'll play with it for an hour. OS X is more stable and easier to use, and things like networking work sooo much better.
true, true.0 -
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uberwolf wrote:incorrect.
Most software has a comparative version available. Microsoft, Macromedia etc all develop their products for both platforms.
the reasons for this are two fold. Most journalists are mac users(newspaper & design world) - too powerful to ignore.
Most mac users would be power users. i.e they use their computers. So despite having a market share of only 6% or so, a much higher percentage of that 6% would have a need for the powerful programs and apps than the PC users.....
...You couldn't make stuff this bad up... I especially love "Most mac users would be power users. i.e they use their computers" Eh? LOL
The solution is simple. Decide what software you need. Then buy the machine that runs it. Most of the run of the mill applications can be found on both platforms. But anything vaguely specialised or left of center is usually not on both platforms.krinpit wrote:Do you mind me asking; Why do designers prefer working with a Mac? What are the main advantages? I'm just curious, because it's something I hear quite a lot.
Because they use them in college and get used to them. find a designer that learnt on a PC and they'll prefer that.0 -
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uberwolf wrote:as a percentage do you think a greater number of windows users would be familiar with the adminisrative end of their machines and/or are using their machines taxing tasks? over and above Macs
"taxing tasks" Explain?
Percentage or numerically. Yes. Because its simply the dominant platform. Approx 3% vs 90%. I'm sure if there were stats on Certified IT network admin people, or even power users with ECDL & MOUS in the PC user base compared to those in the Apple user base there simply no way there would be more "power users" or administrators. How about programmers, developers etc. Even in the creative fields its probably 50:50 and thats Apples strongest market.
How many companies have you been in where they had 100+ seat apple network. 500+? 1000? 2000+? The Apple user base is tiny!
Especially since Apple powers users are those that "use their computers"...uberwolf wrote:This is true. But my point stands - what percentage of users require these 'specialised' software packages? by their nature very few. So most users could use either or.
Very few? So like AutoCad or 3D Max or games like IL2 or MS Flight Sim, etc. How about programming languages like VB or .Net? These are massive user bases. Then you have all the custom applications in telecomunications, finance, development, engineering etc. You can go into a company like eircom and they have what 3000-6000 PC all running custom in house applications. They are all PC apps. How about all those markets like accountancy, dentistry, medicine. Theres hundreds if not thousands of specialised PC apps.
Remember your comparing a market share of 3% vs almost 90%. Even a small percentage of Windows user is a massive user base. Probably more than Apples entire user base for many specialised applications.0 -
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I said percentage, you explained numerical. Which was nice, but missed the point. My conjecture is that Mac users as a body would be more educated than PC users in using their machines. As a percentage. i.e for every 100 mac users there would be 50 power users as opposed to 49 power users for every 100 pc users. You continue to lightly jibe but I believe that to be true, and you've missed the point in your robust argument to the contrary.
Of course I could be utterly incorrect, but every point you've made about the sheer number of PC users would seem to back me up. It is the lowest common denominator entry point to the world of computing - for most is perfectly adequate. Most Mac users will, at some point, have made an affirmed decision to switch rather than continue using PCs.
As regards specialised applications for work places. You're right. But who buys a machine for work? if they need it it's supplied in the majority of cases. I'm talking about those investment bankers, etc, not the individual Doctors in the surgery.
In terms of programmers, they are few enough instances of truely single platform languages. VB for example is seeing a change (apparently)
You're clearly far more familiar with computers than I am. A power user you could even say and btw 'use their computers' was simply my way of explaining the term power user - something you've facetiously used as crude debating point.
Ultimately my point is this. Unless there is some specialised app out that you require then either PC or Mac will suffice. And for most of this kind of user the Mac will prove a better machine for your purposes. It is more intuitive, boasts a more reliable and secure OS, is better looking.
And the vast majority of users seeking a machine for use at home fit into this description.0 -
uberwolf wrote:I said percentage, you explained numerical. Which was nice, but missed the point. My conjecture is that Mac users as a body would be more educated than PC users in using their machines. As a percentage. i.e for every 100 mac users there would be 50 power users as opposed to 49 power users for every 100 pc users. You continue to lightly jibe but I believe that to be true, and you've missed the point in your robust argument to the contrary.
I have no percentages to give. Since the term "power user" is used for many different terms of reference. It could mean nothing. As your first explanation (which I quoted). Or it could mean something based on a metric if an exam or certification. Its a moving target., depending on the context its used in.
If you had system A with a user base of 2 users and 1 of them is an IT whiz. Therefore 50%. Compare that against a user base of system B of 200 where 50 are techies. Therefore 25%. Logically you will have 50% ratio of non techies in A vs 75% in B.
Your maths is right but it has no meaning. What meaning is it meant to have anyway? You've not posted any facts to back up the %. Its a figure plucked from thin air. Where are you getting your % from?
I seriously dispute the 50% anyway. From my experience of Mac users, they generally have very poor IT knowledge and few have advanced knowledge of applications. Since the Mac was always sold on the premise that you didn't need to be a techie to use it, and it was always quite simple to use. It has attracted that user base. Cetainly that always been the image Apple has tried to promote and its consistent with my industry experience.uberwolf wrote:Of course I could be utterly incorrect, but every point you've made about the sheer number of PC users would seem to back me up. It is the lowest common denominator entry point to the world of computing - for most is perfectly adequate. Most Mac users will, at some point, have made an affirmed decision to switch rather than continue using PCs.
Any figures to back that up? Or is this another guesstimate from thin air? Any stats I've seen is that the bulk of Macs are bought by people upgrading old Macs not switchers. Ever seen any stats of Mac users switching to PCs?uberwolf wrote:As regards specialised applications for work places. You're right. But who buys a machine for work? if they need it it's supplied in the majority of cases. I'm talking about those investment bankers, etc, not the individual Doctors in the surgery.
How about those "journalists...(newspaper & design world)" Maybe they buy it for work. How about everyone thats self employed? All those freelance programmers, designers, etc. How about all those students? Most colleges don't even support Macs on their networks!uberwolf wrote:In terms of programmers, they are few enough instances of truely single platform languages. VB for example is seeing a change (apparently)
Doesn't matter about the language. What matters are the development tools, the server applications, the database, document and content management, source control, publishing systems. Its the infrastructure around the language. Etc. Besides VB is a hughly popular application. It was given as an example of platform specific applications not languages. Theres also VBA for Office. You can't simply dismiss the importance of these to suit your argument. How about Access?uberwolf wrote:You're clearly far more familiar with computers than I am. A power user you could even say and btw 'use their computers' was simply my way of explaining the term power user - something you've facetiously used as crude debating point.
Well it was funny.uberwolf wrote:Ultimately my point is this. Unless there is some specialised app out that you require then either PC or Mac will suffice. And for most of this kind of user the Mac will prove a better machine for your purposes. It is more intuitive, boasts a more reliable and secure OS, is better looking. And the vast majority of users seeking a machine for use at home fit into this description.
You seem to switched to talking about home users specifically in that last comment. I would suggest that a large % of home computers are used for games, or hobbies, or for things that they also use at work or college. There'll be a lot of PC specific apps amongst those users.
I agree with a lot of what you say about advantages in the OS. But its sounds so like the Betamax vs VHS battle. or the Xbox vs PS2. As for better looking thats debatable. A grubby white ibook is not better looking than a sleek sony or sharp machine. At the end of the day theres a huge difference in the size of the markets. 90% vs 3% I dunno how you can simply ignore that. Maybe its not that important. Somehow I suspect it is though.
:cool:0
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