Potentially very bad news for 'Carnivale' fans!

Basq

Read here!

AintItCoolNews/Variety wrote:

It looks like we're not going to find out what dustbowl dweller Ben Hawkins' connection is to a future nuclear holocaust after all!
Thursday morning’s Variety reports that HBO has already picked up “Deadwood” for a third season, but the same piece has this:

Sunday's season finale for "Carnivale" delivered an above-average 2.4 million viewers, but insiders insist the show is not likely to return.

An HBO spokeswoman said a decision has not yet been reached. "Carnivale" creator-exec producer Daniel Knauf, however, has already begun developing a comedy series project for rival pay cablercabler Showtime.

Nothing set in stone yet.. but a bad sign!

ixoy

Bad Basquille - you're only meant to bring me good news "The Wire" had poor audience figures though, fans were left wondering, and it got renewed. If "Carnivale" fails to get a new season 'coz of the very over-rated "Deadwood" I'll be in a dirty smock, crying in the desert.

tvnutz

If HBO do not pick it up,ill be very very pissed at them,and lose a whole laod of respect.Did you guys see the season finale? They cant leave it like that,they just cant!

TCamen

Grrr! I wish TG4 would hurry up and show Season 2 of 'Carnivale'. [Or someone provide broadband in my area :rolleyes:]

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

Read here! Nothing set in stone yet.. but a bad sign!

Grr, argh! My favourite show of recent years cannot die...

Loved the season as a whole, strong ending. Half-expected everything to wrap up in 2x12, but they wrote themselves an out at the last minute.

This is the finest show (alongside Lost) currently airing on US TV. It would be unforgivable for HBO to ditch their most original series. Deadwood is, well, dead wood by comparison. I'm afraid this is another case of US viewers not being able to commit to a series with long-running plot arcs. Ratings are somewhat immaterial to HBO who don't base renewals on them nearly as much as the broadcast networks. That Carnivale did as well most weeks as The Wire in s3 means it should be considered by HBO as on-par or above its other series. However, I half wonder if HBO don't consider it to be as marketable as some of its other series, and it may see the axe for such a ridiculous reason as not looking 'hip' enough.

Other bad news in relation to this is Daniel Knauf developing a series for Showtime this September. (Of course, doesn't mean he can't oversee both, but it's not a fantastic sign.)

I'd happily lose about 10 other mediocre shows I watch in return for one more jaunt on the carny circuit with Ben & Sofie...

John R

doh.ie wrote:

Grr, argh! My favourite show of recent years cannot die...

Loved the season as a whole, strong ending. Half-expected everything to wrap up in 2x12, but they wrote themselves an out at the last minute.

This is the finest show (alongside Lost) currently airing on US TV. It would be unforgivable for HBO to ditch their most original series. Deadwood is, well, dead wood by comparison. I'm afraid this is another case of US viewers not being able to commit to a series with long-running plot arcs. Ratings are somewhat immaterial to HBO who don't base renewals on them nearly as much as the broadcast networks. That Carnivale did as well most weeks as The Wire in s3 means it should be considered by HBO as on-par or above its other series. However, I half wonder if HBO don't consider it to be as marketable as some of its other series, and it may see the axe for such a ridiculous reason as not looking 'hip' enough.

Production cost is another possible reason, I am sure I read somewhere that Carnivale had a rather large budget, certainly it would be far more expensive than The Wire.

tvnutz

No No,I wouldnt say its too much more expensive than the wire,the wire has a huge cast,much bigger than carnivale.

ixoy

TBH, I would've thought "Carnivale" dearer than "The Wire" too. "Carnivale" requires lots of authentic old costume designs, vehicles, SFX, which are much harder to get than "The Wire" whose only outlay is its larger cast. Both shows have a lead whose had movie backgrounds but the rest of their casts are, while very good, not famous enough to command huge salaries. Anyway a decision isn't being made about "Carnivale" for months yet, so all we can do is wait.

doh.ie

Yeah, Carnivale must be much more expensive than The Wire to produce. However, that said, they have had some pretty clever ways of filming it. They did all the Justin/Iris/New Caanan house scenes together, for example. Made best use of the crowds needed for Justin's flock.

When it came to the Carnivale scenes, they've got a Carnivale (the attraction, not the show) set that's fully constructed - this becomes the one when the fair is in full swing; they've got one that's half-down - for use when it's being dismantled/put together on screen; and a third which is the entire thing down and ready for 'shaking dust'.

Not that that makes it any cheaper, but in production terms, they're relatively 'standing sets', albeit outdoors, so there's not as much work when it comes to getting ready to film a scene set-wise. (Of course, this season there's been an extraordinary amount of beautiful cinematography and some stunning locales, and it must have been more expensive than season one.)

Anyway, fingers crossed... I think I'll go consult the tarot, see what the future holds...

Reminds me - just like the ol' Lost personality test, y'all might want to have a go at this one:

http://carnivale.fxuk.com/carnie_lingo.asp

Don't think it's very good, cos there's limited choices. (Gecko wasn't even in it this year...)

I am Lodz... Suddenly feel the onset of blinding rage...

A O Malley

New series starts next monday on tg4 for all those without broadband

doh.ie

Good ol' TG4 - to be fair, the new series is not over very long, and this is pretty fast for TG4 to get it on the air (considering BBC2 were supposed to have rights to it and never bothered to start...)

Basq

From AintItCoolNews.com (http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20167):

AintItCoolNews wrote:

My emailbox was filled Saturday morning with this message and many more like it:

Herc,

Fans of Carnivale woke up this morning to some very bad news. Beth Blighton, trusted source of Carnycon and she-who-knows-all posted that an "unimpeachable source" had confirmed that Carnivale is being cancelled. As you can imagine the fans are more than a little pissed, what with the story only being one third through and all...

anon

Sorry all.... it's looking bad! I'm halfway through Series 1 and really enjoying it!! :mad:

tvnutz

ye i was so p!ssed off when i heard that,stupid HBO,i thought the treated their shows well,we should at least get another season to see what happens with sophie.

damien

They ended it on a high rather than it fading away into crapness. I would have liked to have seen a third season though. Ah well.

doh.ie

Maybe if the second season gets a release and sells well, HBO will consider selling the rights to another production company who could maybe make it for syndication or a different network? (I'd say Showtime, but those bastards cancelled Dead Like Me, so obviously haven't a clue what a decent TV show is.)

OK, long shot, considering there would only be a 12-episode season, but it worked for Firefly...

ixoy

This thread isn't funny. Post a funnier joke please... it's a joke yeah? Must not wonder how inferior products like 'Deadwood' get renewed and this doesn't.. Must not think how 'Every Twit Loves Raymond' gets nine seasons and this gets two. Must not get angry......

doh.ie

ixoy wrote:

This thread isn't funny. Post a funnier joke please... it's a joke yeah? Must not wonder how inferior products like 'Deadwood' get renewed and this doesn't.. Must not think how 'Every Twit Loves Raymond' gets nine seasons and this gets two. Must not get angry......

After so many years of decent shows being canned before their time - Millennium, Firefly, S:A&B, Dead Like Me, B5 (a lacklustre s5 means it kind of was for me, or at least not allowed to finish properly), Dark Skies, American Gothic, Angel, Odyssey 5, Futurma... - to name just a handful, I've almost become numb to the whole American TV renewal process. So when I show is axed, the disbelief of old is almost not there and I just shrug and reaffirm what a bunch of insane morons US executives are. That most of them have never even seen the shows they're cancelling just makes it worse.

If only the viewer could become a shareholder in the production of their own favourite shows, as they tried to do with Enterprise. A show could easily be made by 2m fans *worldwide* paying $1 each, and most of those fans would happily pay $12 for a new season of Carnivale. (I say worldwide, because 2m was in the region of the highest ratings it was getting on HBO, and most of those viewers would probably not be committed enough to pay for more directly. I accept they were indirectly paying already as HBO is a subscription channel.)

It's never going to change, though, sadly. We'll just continue to invest our time and energy in shows and plots which will abruptly be dropped with unfinished plots and incredible potential.

cosgrove80

I just want to add a highly unconstructive but heartfelt BOOOOOOOO!! in HBOs direction.

Gillo

Just saw it for the first time last night when I was flickign through channels.

can anyone explain the basic plot to me??

Basq

gillo wrote:

Just saw it for the first time last night when I was flickign through channels.

can anyone explain the basic plot to me??

Courtesy of the excellent Wikipedia:

Wikipedia wrote:

Carnivàle is a period drama set in the United States during the Great Depression of the 1930s. It has an overarching story about the battle between good and evil as well as the struggle between free will and destiny.

The show consists of two plot lines that are slowly converging. The first involves a young man named Ben Hawkins, the "creature of light," who joins a travelling carnival when it passes near his Dust Bowl home. The carnival consists mainly of a freak show and a strip show (known as the “cootch show”), but it also has a few rides such as a Tilt-A-Whirl and Ferris wheel.

Ben has quickly come to learn that his nemesis must be stopped by any means, and is learning the full extent of his powers to stop the nuclear holocaust he keeps seeing in his mind if his nemesis succeeds.

The second plot line revolves around a Methodist minister named Brother Justin Crowe, the "creature of darkness," who, along with the guidance of his sister Iris in their fictional town of Mintern, California, is also learning the extent of his powers, and his visions regarding the farm boy he keeps seeing, who is his nemesis. He has gathered a strong following of destitutes ("Okies") who have flocked to hear him and his Father Coughlin-like ministries (minus the anti-Semitism) going out on the airwaves.

As the story progresses, the carnival travels west toward California and a confrontation seems inevitable. The westward movement parallels the movement of the "Okies" from Oklahoma to California during the Dust Bowl years.

tvnutz

gillo wrote:

Just saw it for the first time last night when I was flickign through channels.

can anyone explain the basic plot to me??

Go to www.hbo.com/carnivale and they have episode summaries from all eps.

Scruff

gillo wrote:

Just saw it for the first time last night when I was flickign through channels.

can anyone explain the basic plot to me??

what a coincidence, me too!

unless of course i suffer from psychophrenia or multiple personality disorder and i'm really u....queue twilght zone music...

plastic membrane

ixoy wrote:

This thread isn't funny. Post a funnier joke please... it's a joke yeah? Must not wonder how inferior products like 'Deadwood' get renewed and this doesn't.. Must not think how 'Every Twit Loves Raymond' gets nine seasons and this gets two. Must not get angry......

Much as i hate to see Carnivale go, as it was(is) a terrific show (got some of the most effectively eerie foreshadowing ive seen since the days of Twin Peaks), i have to defend Deadwood, as there seems to be a big of snideness towards it. Personally i think that Deadwood is just as good, if not better than Carnivale, and to call it an inferior product is just wrong.

ixoy

plastic membrane wrote:

Personally i think that Deadwood is just as good, if not better than Carnivale, and to call it an inferior product is just wrong.

Well, it's not that I think 'Deadwood' is bad, I just think it's the weakest of the HBO shows shown over here - I prefer "Carnivale", "The Wire", "Curb Your Enthusaism", "Six Feet Under", and "The Sopranos". It's still better than a lot of the other shows being renewed, just not my cup an tae.

tvnutz

I like Deadwood,but it is not in the league of Carnivale,no other HBO shows are.

Basq

Well.. here's the confirmation on the end of 'Carnivale':

AintItCoolNews wrote:

"We feel the two seasons we had on the air told the story very well, and we're proud of what everyone associated with the show accomplished," HBO entertainment president Carolyn Strauss said Tuesday.

Quote directly from here!

Straight from entertainment president at HBO... can't get any more official than that!

Watch the season finale of season 1 last night and loved it! The last 5 minutes with

Ben killing Lodz and Sophie being trapped in the burning caravan, while a particularly stirring passage from Brother Justin was being recited in the background.... excellent stuff!

.

Gonna start season 2 tonight.... the final season!

doh.ie

basquille wrote:

Well.. here's the confirmation on the end of 'Carnivale':

Quote directly from here!

Straight from entertainment president at HBO... can't get any more official than that!

Grr. Carolyn Strauss is the most ignorant woman alive. It did tell the story very well, Carolyn, but it didn't FINISH it! Bloody hell, is this the kind of woman who reads half a book and then puts it back on the shelf?! So angry...

Not since the demise of Millennium and Firefly have I felt this rage. And at least one of those came back.

Season 2 races at a pace completely contrary to season 1 - Basquille, you'll be amazed at how fast the plot moves by comparison. I enjoyed both styles or storytelling, though, but once again, our American counterparts just couldn't fathom anything which tried to do something different.

Basq

doh.ie wrote:

Season 2 races at a pace completely contrary to season 1 - Basquille, you'll be amazed at how fast the plot moves by comparison.

Good! Even though i enjoyed the first season immensly, sometimes the pace would get to me!

It was only in the last 2 episodes with

Ruthie being bitten and Ben's quest to find 'someone to take' to save her

did i really felt a change of pace begin to occur.

tvnutz

STUPID A HOLES! I wish I lived in the states and had HBO just so I could cancel it.

Etain

I can't believe it! The ONE show that I would never miss! It's probably too much to hope for, but it would be decent of HBO to allow one more episode to wrap it all up.??