Any link between these problems?

corblimey

My 98 Punto is causing me some trouble lately. Every now and again, it moves kinda sluggishly, and it kinda goes in fits and spurts, as if I'm in the wrong gear. This happens mostly in the afternoons. Mornings and evenings, it appears to be fine.

Yesterday, my engine temp light came on. I'd just driven through some heavy city traffic. It stayed on until I got back out to the link road (in Cork city), it flashed a few times then went off. There was no sluggishness from the engine, though.

I check the coolant and the oil, and they both seem fine. So is it possible that these 2 problems are linked, and are the symptoms of something in the engine failing or broken. Since I can't tell when it might happen next, I can't bring it to a garage, as it'll no doubt work fine (I brought it in Wednesday morning, but it was going well). But if I had a clue as to what might be causing these 2 issues, I could at least say to the mechanic "check that, or this" or somthing.

Banjo013

How many miles on the car ? Has the car been serviced regularly ? Has the timing belt been changed ?

Possible things that come to mind :-

For sluggish performance :-

Bad air intake
Partially blocked fuel hose
Bad spark plugs
Bad distributor or HT leads
Dirt in the fuel
Bad fuel pump
Bad fuel pressure regulator

For temp light :-

Bad cooling fan
Bad water pump

It seems unlikely to me that the two problems are related, but still I wouldn't rule it out.

corblimey

Mileage is approaching 60k. I've had it serviced once in the last 9 months that I've owned it, and that was the NCT last September. The timing belt certainly hasn't been changed by me

I just thought that the fact that the sluggishness happens mostly in the afternoon when the car has been sitting doing nothing under a hot sun might be somehow related to the engine temp. But I guess a hot sun has negligible effect on the engine temp. And also when the light burned brightly yesterday evening, there was no problem with the car.

I like that it could be anything of a dozen things My wallet has started sweating.

Padraig Mor

Girlfriend had temp light coming on and off in her Punto. Turned out to be an almost-gone head gasket. Get it checked mate.

SouperComputer

any sign of creamy goop under the oil filler cap?

Interceptor

Is it ever hesitant to start?

With 60k on the clock, the head gasket needs to be checked as the afternoon sluggishness may be due to coolant getting pulled into a cylinder. Large bubbles of air in the expansion bottle is another obvious symptom. Get thee to a mechanic...

The 1242 8v Punto 60 is most prone to head gasket problems and should be fitted with 'Spesso' brand gaskets to ensure no further problems. The timing belt should be done at either 35 or 40k (I can't remember) so try and see if yours is due one and get both belt and gasket done.

'cptr

corblimey

I phoned 2 difference mechanics and they both put the symptoms down to the head gasket, so I've just dropped it off at a Fiat dealer. He said it was definitely the gasket, and showed me all the smoke and water coming out the exhaust (something I hadn't even noticed). I know I'll pay more for it, but the gave me a free loaner for the 6 days, so that will save me some taxi money .

As for the belt, isn't that something that's checked by the NCT (I know they do something with some belt), and I was told that all parts that needed replacing for the NCT had been replaced. Would it be still worth my while getting my mechanic to check the belt while he's at it? I'd prefer not to have him "just replace it for the hell of it". Cynical little bugger, ain't I

BrianD3

Too many people including so-called competent mechanics are too quick to say "your head gasket's gone mate". Water from the exhaust does not indicate head gasket failure unless the car is using coolant (which you said it isn't) and even if the car is using coolant there could be other things that are causing it.

If the mechanic suspects a blown head gasket the first thing he should do is a cooling system pressure test, the second thing he should do is a compression test.

BrianD3

Gurgle

corblimey wrote:

As for the belt, isn't that something that's checked by the NCT (I know they do something with some belt)

Yes, they check your seatbelts work.

mike65

As Brian said get them to do a compression check on every cylinder.

Mike.

AMurphy

Given teh mileage, the first 2 item I might check are the EFI Temp sensor and the O2 sensor. Both pretty easy and both temp dependant.
After that I might check your EGR (if you have one) and after that the head gasket, being the most difficult.

Flecks of "smoke" and water is to be expected out the exhaust of a cold exhaust system, do the test after a very hot burn on the highway.

Plumes of white "smoke", actually steam , from a hot engine is the sign of a leaking gasket.

I'm pretty sure it is not the timing belt as the symptoms would be constantly bad, not wavering about in the heat.

Interceptor

corblimey wrote:

Cynical little bugger, ain't I

Water is a natural by-product of the petrol combustion engine and can be expected to come out of every exhaust pipe - it is not a sign that your head gasket is gone. To fit a head gasket, the timing belt has to be taken off and it would make sense to spend the €17 for a new one when the engine is being rebuilt.

The NCT get everyone to sign a disclaimer to say the timing belt is healthy in case they break it during testing. (They insisted I sign the form even though my car doesn't have a belt - it has a chain). This does not mean that it was changed by your mechanic for the NCT.

Sluggish running is sometimes a symptom of a faulty lambda sensor, but a blown head gasket will kill your engine if it isn't fixed - everything else is just a nuisance in comparison.

'c

corblimey

Thanks to everyone for the help. I was able to sound quite knowledgable about what I wanted the mechanic to at least look at (he's putting on a new belt at the same time, and doing the compression check). It'll save me a few quid.

As a matter of interest, what IS the head gasket?

ds20prefecture

corblimey wrote:

Thanks to everyone for the help. I was able to sound quite knowledgable about what I wanted the mechanic to at least look at (he's putting on a new belt at the same time, and doing the compression check). It'll save me a few quid.

As a matter of interest, what IS the head gasket?

A gasket is a seal between two things, in this case the "block" and the "head". When a gasket fails, water from the cooling pathways in the head and block is able to seep into the combustion chamber, making for a lot of steam from your exhaust, a loss in efficiency, more corrosion in your cylinders and pretty soon a dead engine.

To describe a head gasket, it's basically a treated paper sandwitch with large and small circles cut into it for the cylinders and the water passages.

Here's a picture - the head gasket is the biggest gasket in the middle.