This machine for high-end graphics work?

Goodshape

A friend of mine is looking to buy PC for intensive graphics / photo / video work... looking at this one - looks great in my opinion, wondering what others think ..?

[b]Specifications[/b]
Operating Systems       [b]Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Edition SP2[/b]
Platform                   [b]PC[/b]
Form Factor       [b]Tower[/b]
Processor Brand       [b]Intel®[/b]
Processor Class       [b]Xeon[/b]
Processor Speed       [b]2.80GHz[/b]
Additional Technologies       [b]HyperThreading Technology[/b]
Memory Type       [b]DDR[/b]
Total Memory       [b]1.0GB[/b]
Capacity       [b]200GB[/b]
Optical Drive Type       [b]DVD±RW  //  DVD-ROM[/b]
Audio Description       [b]Integrated Audio[/b]
Graphics Description       [b]AGP 8X Video Card[/b]
Video Memory       [b]256MB Memory[/b]
Communications Description       [b]Integrated LAN Support[/b]
Data Transfer Rate       [b]10Mbps  //  100Mbps[/b]
Power       [b]500 Watt[/b]
Mouse Type       [b]Optical[/b]
Buttons       [b]3[/b]
Keyboard Type       [b]Multimedia[/b]

Particularly the Xeon processor - usually used for servers I believe, would that be a hindrince at all for graphic / workstation work?

WizZard

No way. It's too expensive for what you get. I don't have any experience with Xeons so I can't compare them but I doubt they'd be a hindrance to graphics work.

I would advise 2 gigs of RAM and way more hard drive space. It's a very expensive machine - you could build a monster for that price.

Goodshape

OK, cheers. What about this one with the specs below (same price @ $2000)

# CAS: HOT NEW! Xplorer Mid-Tower Case 420W W/ WINDOW & LCD
Temperature Display (Black Case w/Black Face)

# CPU: (754-pin) AMD(TM) ATHLON(TM)64 3000+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+0]

# CDRW: LG 8X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE (BEIGE COLOR)

# FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 3 EXTRA CASE FANS [+9]
# FLOPPY: NONE [-5]
# HDD: Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+30]
# HDD2: Hitachi 400GB 7200RPM Serial ATA 150 8MB Cache [+360]

# IEEE_CARD: IEEE 1394 CARD AND DRIVER [+19]
# KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (BEIGE COLOR)
# MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (SILVER COLOR)

# MODEM: NONE [-7]
# MOTHERBOARD: (754-pin Socket) Abit KV8 PRO VIA K8T800 Chipset AGP8X
w/LAN,USB2,&Audio
# MEMORY: 2048 MB (1GBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY [+404]
(Kingston Hyper-X High Performance Memory w/ Heat Spreader [+232])

# NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
# OS: Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center 2005 Edition (OS Only!)
# POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY

# REMOTE_CONTROL: Philips Media Center IR Remote Control
# SOFT1: Microsoft(r) Works 7.0

# SOUND: NEW!!! Creative Labs SB LIVE 24.bit 7.1 [+30]
# SPEAKERS: (BLACK)"NEW" Creative Labs SBS 560 5.1 Surround Subwoofer
Speaker System

# SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME
TECHNICAL SUPPORT [-16]

# TV_TUNER: TV Tuner without FM

# USB: Build-in USB 2.0 Ports

# VIDEO: NVIDIA Geforce FX 5700 256MB 8x AGP w/ TVO, & DVI

The Xeon processor is what had me interested in the last one, although looking through these specs this looks like a far better machine maybe.

Ponster

If you want a computer for high-end graphics work then you're going to have to find/build a machine with a powerful card.

The first example doesn't tell you what it is and the second has a Geforce FX 5700 which isn't going to be enough.

angelofdeath

the first one was a 5500 (crap) and the second 5700 (also crap), they're old cards, you'll be wanting the likes of the x800, 6800 for a computer that expensive

Ponster

What programs do you intend to run on the PC?

Goodshape

Second one can include an NVIDIA Geforce 6800 GT 256MB for an extra $320.

Ponster -> not sure as it's not for me. Unfortunitly the second machine has XP Media Center Edition :eek:

joePC

Have a look at this

Add another gig of Ram if needed.

Goodshape

joePC -> That looks nice. I'll suggest it, cheers.

jessy

Goodshape wrote:

OK, cheers. What about this one with the specs below (same price @ $2000)

# CAS: HOT NEW! Xplorer Mid-Tower Case 420W W/ WINDOW & LCD
Temperature Display (Black Case w/Black Face)

# CPU: (754-pin) AMD(TM) ATHLON(TM)64 3000+ CPU w/ Hyper Transport Technology [+0]

# CDRW: LG 8X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE (BEIGE COLOR)

# FAN: AMD ATHLON64 CERTIFIED CPU FAN & HEATSINK + 3 EXTRA CASE FANS [+9]
# FLOPPY: NONE [-5]
# HDD: Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM ATA 100 8MB Special Editon [+30]
# HDD2: Hitachi 400GB 7200RPM Serial ATA 150 8MB Cache [+360]

# IEEE_CARD: IEEE 1394 CARD AND DRIVER [+19]
# KEYBOARD: PS2 MULTIMEDIA INTERNET CONTROL KEYBOARD (BEIGE COLOR)
# MOUSE: PS2 INTERNET MOUSE W/ WHEEL (SILVER COLOR)

# MODEM: NONE [-7]
# MOTHERBOARD: (754-pin Socket) Abit KV8 PRO VIA K8T800 Chipset AGP8X
w/LAN,USB2,&Audio
# MEMORY: 2048 MB (1GBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY [+404]
(Kingston Hyper-X High Performance Memory w/ Heat Spreader [+232])

# NETWORK: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK CARD
# OS: Microsoft(r) Windows(r) XP Media Center 2005 Edition (OS Only!)
# POWERSUPPLY: STANDARD CASE POWER SUPPLY

# REMOTE_CONTROL: Philips Media Center IR Remote Control
# SOFT1: Microsoft(r) Works 7.0

# SOUND: NEW!!! Creative Labs SB LIVE 24.bit 7.1 [+30]
# SPEAKERS: (BLACK)"NEW" Creative Labs SBS 560 5.1 Surround Subwoofer
Speaker System

# SERVICE: STANDARD WARRANTY: 3-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY PLUS LIFE-TIME
TECHNICAL SUPPORT [-16]

# TV_TUNER: TV Tuner without FM

# USB: Build-in USB 2.0 Ports

# VIDEO: NVIDIA Geforce FX 5700 256MB 8x AGP w/ TVO, & DVI

The Xeon processor is what had me interested in the last one, although looking through these specs this looks like a far better machine maybe.

You can’t spend $2000 and get the old socket (754) and a crap Gfx card, it don’t make sense. Have a look at some of the pre-built Machines on komplett

Jaeger

Desktop : CASE Akasa Eclipse-62, Motherboard Asus P5AD2-E Premium Mainboard 925XE, CPU P4 3.6 @4.3GHz, RAM 2GB PC5400, HD's Maxtor 300gb, WD 200gb,WD 160gb, Hitachi Deskstar 80, Plextor 16X DVDRW, MSI 52X CDRW,Graphics Card X850XT, PSU, Tagan 480w,

You have an X850XT? /me goes green with envy

abccormac

What sort of graphics work is he planning on doing? If it's photoshop and other 2d stuff the graphics card won't be that important, just get lots of ram and as fast as processor as possible. For 3d work the graphics card would be much more important I would imagine.

darraghrogan

Get a G5 Powermac!

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/irl.woa/90505/wo/174k5zv9f8453vFZC2v130v648C/0.0.11.1.0.6.21.1.2.1.3.0.0.1.0

or else:

http://www.apple.com/uk/powermac/

imovie is truly superb given that it's free and photoshop runs great. The machine will be as solid as a rock (no spyware viruses etc) and don't look too shabby intot he bargain

Darragh

thelad

I can get you this one for €2070-it was put together as a top gamer's machine but you could swap and change:
Athlon64 XP3200 Processor
1 GB PC3200 DDR RAM
Massive 19" Flat Screen TFT Monitor
Beautiful PC Case with front firewire and USB 2 Ports
Top of range Graphics - MSI 256MB ATi Radeon X800XT PE AGP 8X VIVO TV out DVI
Maxtor 200GB 7200 Rpm Hard Drive with 8mb cache
True 5.1 Surround sound speaker System
Network adapter - Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet
Dual Layer 16* DVDR" +/- DVD Writer
XFX eXecutioner DUAL SHOCK 12-button Gamepad PC/USB
Microsoft Works 8.0 CD in DVD Case
Logitech Labtec Optical Wireless Desktop
Windows XP Home Edition
Norton Anti-virus 2005
Nero 6
€2070 (includes delivery and home set up Dublin area)
or this pentium machine:
200GB Hard Dive 7200RPM 16mb Cache
Intel Pentium 3.2GHz
AGP 8X & USB 2
768Mb PC3200 DDR Ram
Galaxy GeForce FX 6800 GT 256MB DDR TV OUT+DVI
Wireless 6000 - Keyboard & Mouse
Dual Layer Int IDE 16x DVDRW +/-
V90 56K Internal PCI Fax Modem
17" TFT Monitor
Microsoft XP Home Edition
5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System
Logitech Dual Action USB Gamepad 12 button
Nero Express v6 CD Burning Software Suite
Norton Anti-virus 2005
Microsoft Works 8.0 CD in DVD Case
€1750 (includes delivery and home set up Dublin area)

let me know if you are interested (-;

leeroybrown

System specs aside, my advice for graphics work would be:

Fast CPU (AMD64 or P4 don't bother with Xeons)
1Gb RAM

For photoshop/image work that will be enough.

For video editing get two hard disks so that one can be used for 'scratch' without slowing down the whole OS and all the applications. Disk access will be a big issue here.

For 3D graphics/rendering work that can take advantage hardware get a decent graphics card (check that the apps aren't CPU based first).

Then do up the numbers and make sure that as much money as is necessary is spent on a good large sized high res monitor. The number of people I've seen over the years spending loads on systems and then hooking them up to low quality monitors is rediculous.

WizZard

Are you going buying in the US, or in Ireland/Europe? I'll spec out a few if you want.

RicardoSmith

It all depends on the type of graphics work you are doing. Web, 3D, illustration, what? Most of the spec people are giving seem to be for a high end games machine for some reason.

Only buy a Xeon in a dual processor system. No point if you are getting a single CPU. For large image editing in Photoshop, video editing, 3D rendering dual processors makes a big difference. You need lots of fast ram, and fast I/O which means fast hard disks.SCSI or high end SATA with large cache. P4s are faster for video and media applications. Also consider a backup system, like DVD or a RAID of some sort.

Also try and make sure the machine isn't too noisy as thats a real problem on a machine that your working on all day (and night). Monitor is all important. For graphics work you should have at least two of them. For some 3D apps you'd be better off with a workstation graphic card that has proper openGL of application specific drivers. You also want a card that supports both your TFTs' ideally with dual DVI outputs. You need lots of ram on the card for high resolutions, but speed isn't important unless you are doing 3D work.

I have a dual xeon at work with a quadro gfx card and dual TFT's. Lovely machine. Prefer it for working on to my P4 at home. Even though my home machine is faster for games and I only use a single TFT.

Don't discount an Apple dual G5 either. Many designers prefer working on them. Though a PC workstation would be faster, outright speed isn't always the most important consideration.

Goodshape

Cheers for all the advice people - sorry I was away from the 'net over the weekend.

Answering a few questions, it will be used primarily for rendering large 2d and 3d graphics (photos). A Mac would be an outside choice but he'd prefer not to loose compatibility with the old machine, so it's not desirable.

Can buy from US or Europe - final destination is Prague.

RicardoSmith

Whats a 3D photo?

Superman

get 2 GB ram,
second top range ATi card (top is always overpriced usually double and never that much better)
and 2 74GB S-ATA Western Digital raptor drive and put them on a RAID system that should keep things running smoothly
good luck

heggie

what files is he worrying pc/mac's wont be compatible with? you'll save serious headaches for most print/design work if you have a mac.

RicardoSmith

heggie wrote:

what files is he worrying pc/mac's wont be compatible with? you'll save serious headaches for most print/design work if you have a mac.

Other than fonts and registration which are always a problem, what problems do you mean?

RicardoSmith

Superman wrote:

get 2 GB ram,
second top range ATi card (top is always overpriced usually double and never that much better)
and 2 74GB S-ATA Western Digital raptor drive and put them on a RAIDS system that should keep things running smoothly
good luck

Pick one...
http://www.ati.com/products/firegl.html

heggie

you can get a vast amount of opentype fonts, that'll sort you

Goodshape

It's more the programs he's got now that he doesn't want to loose. And while photo / graphic work is the main priority, it's not the only thing the machine will be used for.

3d photos - I was thinking along the lines of large panoramics and the like. But also some proper 3d work is not out of the question.

Quite impressed with the amount and quality of responses here - one can never underestimate the knowledge of the geek, or his willingness to share

A likely option at the moment seems to be a self-built machine. Just a matter of finding a suitable retailer close-by in case of necessary returns.

Superman

RicardoSmith wrote:

Pick one...
http://www.ati.com/products/firegl.html

Well i would go for the FireGL V5100 over the FireGL V7100 for the simpl reason they are both decent powerfull cards and the second does not warrant you to spend over an extra 300.
Same can be said for the AGP cards FireGL X2-256t over the FireGL X3-256.
From looking at the price of this stuff over the years it seems to me that any new card that comes out by ATI will be anything from 5%-15% better than the last one out and will have its price ridiculously high, Simply so they can catch people who like to buy (and say they bought) the best card they could get!

RicardoSmith

Why would he need a OpenGL card?

rsynnott

Ponster wrote:

If you want a computer for high-end graphics work then you're going to have to find/build a machine with a powerful card.

The first example doesn't tell you what it is and the second has a Geforce FX 5700 which isn't going to be enough.

Depends what that graphics work is. If it's 2d, or high-end 3d rendering, then the graphics card isn't actually hugely relevant...

rsynnott

For most purposes (unless you need app. certification) there's little point in having one of those 'professional' cards; a consumer one will be comperable and a bit cheaper.

RicardoSmith

Theres a big difference in 3D performance and visual accuracy between custom drivers that you get with the workstation cards than the rubbish you get with gaming cards. 2D or video work doesn't matter though.

3d photos isn't 3D. No point buying a decent 3D card for occasional 3D stuff either. Be a waste of money, better spent elsewhere. Like on a 2nd monitor or better single monitor, etc.

rsynnott

RicardoSmith wrote:

Theres a big difference in 3D performance and visual accuracy between custom drivers that you get with the workstation cards than the rubbish you get with gaming cards. 2D or video work doesn't matter though.

3d photos isn't 3D. No point buying a decent 3D card for occasional 3D stuff either. Be a waste of money, better spent elsewhere. Like on a 2nd monitor or better single monitor, etc.

Visual accuracy; there's some. Not dramatic, and not important for many purposes. It's not a driver issue as far as I know; ATI at least use the same drivers for their Randeon and FireGL lines on Linux, for example. Performance? Really?