€20m Inquiry finished without conclusion

Villain

The Dunne inquiry that was set up to look into the retention by hospitals of organs from dead children is going to be wound up without any conclusion. I believe only three hosiptals have been fully investigated. The results of the Inquiry may also never be made public because of legal issues.

In August of last the then Minister for Health Micheál Martin said the inquiry should be allowed to finish it's work and rejected calls for it to be put on astatutory footing.

So here we have an absolute terrible act that was carried out by several hosiptals and an inquiry that has cost €20 million, and still the parents have no answers and are not likely to get many answers in the future either.

This is an absolute disgrace.

A Dub in Glasgo

What is the story with this Anne Dunne. She has been paid a fecking fortune and what is the result.... nothing.

Lemming

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What is the story with this Anne Dunne. She has been paid a fecking fortune and what is the result.... nothing.

I seem to recall her being pressured by political forces to "conclude" the investigation a while back.

Villain

Lemming wrote:

I seem to recall her being pressured by political forces to "conclude" the investigation a while back.

Yep thats the case alright lemming.

FYI

Recently, RTÉ News revealed that around 30 hospitals had supplied pituitary glands from deceased children to pharmaceutical companies to make human growth hormone.

and this report will only report on 3 hospitals :mad:

bonkey

So...how long before we get the headline :

"Another €20M Wasted on three Hospitals"

cdebru

forgive me if i have this wrong

but aren't the vast majority of these cases simply the hospital trying to protect parents after the loss of a child

organs were removed for tests as part of post mortems the parents were allowed to bury their child without the removed organs instead of the child being kept in a freezer for weeks or months waiting on test results to come back before the removed organs could be replaced and the child be given a funeral or the situation we have now where a family is contacted months after the funeral to bury or destroy removed organs

in those circumstances the hospital ended up with organs that they could either destroy or keep in case they might be of use to medical science in the future and actually save childrens lives



someone i know recently had a young child die a sudden death because of this controversy the parents were told exactly what organs had been removed which was very upsetting for them they also are now face with having to bury thsoe organs or have them destroyed in a coouple of months when the tests have been completed
what earthly good does this serve a child is not a brain or a heart or lungs


as for the sale of pituitary glands am i right in thinking that they were only sold for meagre ammounts and that the hospitals were not getting rich or making vast ammounts of money in this if any money
and this improved the lives of many children and was the only source of human growth hormone untill recently

I accept that people are upset but I honestly think that this was done this way for the best of intentions it was wrong but it was not done with malice or intention to cause hurt

sorry if i sound callous but i dont think the situation we have now where a family grieving oveer the loss of a child have to hear at that moment what organs have been removed during an autopsy is any real imprvement on parents not being told in an effort not to upset them

bonkey

cdebru wrote:

but aren't the vast majority of these cases simply the hospital trying to protect parents after the loss of a child
...
I accept that people are upset but I honestly think that this was done this way for the best of intentions it was wrong but it was not done with malice or intention to cause hurt

I'd mostly agree with all of that. However, that would then seriously call into question why it cost €20M, studying a tiny percentage of the cases not to actually find anything out, as would appear to be the case.

This is the question. If there was nothing to hide....why has nothing been concluded?

jc

cdebru

bonkey wrote:

I'd mostly agree with all of that. However, that would then seriously call into question why it cost €20M, studying a tiny percentage of the cases not to actually find anything out, as would appear to be the case.

This is the question. If there was nothing to hide....why has nothing been concluded?

jc

a couple of barristers wouldn't take long to go through 20million euro

maybe nothing has been concluded because there is nothing to conclude

rather than let barristers drag this out for another couple of years which they would gladly do if it aint going anywhere end it now

Slutmonkey57b

It's a very difficult issue all right and one that isn't confined to Ireland. As a parent, I can sympathise to an extent with parents who discovered long after the fact that certain organs were retained, or subsequently used for experimental purposes. The idea that your child (even though realistically only parts of your child) is being used as a laboratory is one that is liable to cause offence. Equally, I understand that without access to cadavers and organs to experiment with, medical science will not be able to progress.

The message to take from this perhaps is that parents should simply be asked for consent to organ harvest and given the reasons why an organ harvest is either desireable or necessary before the event. In cases where foul play is suspected, obviously consent should not be needed but parents should still be advised. I know from experience that the worst thing about dealing with a sick child is not necessarily what a doctor plans to do, but not knowing in advance what the doctor plans to do. Once you have the information, then the decision is usually easy.

Whether the inquiry is a failure or not really depends on what its paramaters of investigation were. It may have gathered much pertinent information on this sort of issue, but simply had to ignore it as it was not within the paramaters of the investigation. More information needed I think.

cdebru

I think that a parent has an absolute right to know but they should be able to decide wether they want to use that right to know

if a parent decides they would prefer not to know the details of exactly what is involved in a post mortem and exactly what organs may be missing from their child as they bury them they should not have that information forced upon them

I honestly think that the current situation is as bad if not worse than what went on before

bonkey

cdebru wrote:

maybe nothing has been concluded because there is nothing to conclude

But the has to be something to conclude, even if the conclusion is that nothing wrong was done, or that nothing was actually done, or that a mistake was made, or that the events are all unconnected.

gandalf

cdebru I agree with your original post 100%. It is upsetting for the parents of this children to re-visit the tragedy of losing a child but there were no sinister reasons (from what I can tell) of the hospitals retaining the organs.

As regards this inquiry 20 million with no result, what is it with this government and pissing away tax payers money. I would like to say there should be an investigation but that would probably lead to more money being wasted. Again who is responsible for this wastage, a civil servant(s), politicians, shouldn't someone be brought to account for this but alas I think we all resigned to the fact that no one will.

File this one with Bertie Bowl, Electronic Voting please.

cdebru

gandalf wrote:

cdebru I agree with your original post 100%. It is upsetting for the parents of this children to re-visit the tragedy of losing a child but there were no sinister reasons (from what I can tell) of the hospitals retaining the organs.

As regards this inquiry 20 million with no result, what is it with this government and pissing away tax payers money. I would like to say there should be an investigation but that would probably lead to more money being wasted. Again who is responsible for this wastage, a civil servant(s), politicians, shouldn't someone be brought to account for this but alas I think we all resigned to the fact that no one will.

File this one with Bertie Bowl, Electronic Voting please.

Honestly I think Micheal Martin and his desire to be seen as a good guy and get good press out of an issue
and the government eager to have an enquiry that did not involve some FF minister up to his eyeballs in dodgy money



rather than stand up and say it was wrong we will change the way things are done and we will publish new guidelines as to how people are dealt with and what rights parents or next of kin have

instead we wasted 20 million euro that could and should have been spent on the health service