Squeaky Bum Time...what do you do?

Iago

How much do you change your range of playaable hands as you work through an MTT, specifically I'm interested in how you play the latter stages of a tournament if you find yourself shortstacked.

I played in three MTT's last night on VC. In the first one I was 2nd biggest stack with 20 players to go and I went out 14th. I don't think I did anything particularly wrong. I lost have my stack when calling a preflop all-in with AA against QK that hit a straight. Other memorable hands including AJs getting busted by Q8o and KK getting beaten by A3o...in each case the player was all-in preflop.

In the other two tournies I found myself shortstacked when we were down to the last 30 players or so, with the top 9 getting paid on each occasion. I fluctuated between 5-10 times the BB in both of these tournaments without really moving any higher.

There was action in almost every hand preflop with players raising in front of me or behind me and as a result I wasn't willing to limp in with a hand, if I was going to play then I was raising 3-4 times the BB or going all-in. I actually finished just outside the money in both, but on a number of occasions saw small stacks going in on such monster hands as 89s, 89o, Q80, Q6s, A3o, K5o, K9s, 22, 33 etc. There was always between 7-9 players on the table at this time with aggresive preflop play.

I suppose what I'm getting at is that I wonder whether I play far too tight at this stage in a tournament. As I mentioned it's either all-in or fold for me when I get to here. If there's been no action in front of me and I'm in mid-late position then I might try and steal the blinds by going all-in on Axs, or A 7/8/9o

Apart from that I'm only playing if I have a reasonable PP or Ak, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, QJ.


Is this too tight for this stage of a tournie? What does your range of starting hands change to in this situation? Should I be risking what little I have left on QT, Q9, JT, J9, or suited connectors? Or am I right to wait for the K or A with a reasonable kicker..

As it turns out I went out in both of the latter tournaments when JJ and then TT were called by KK and AA respectively..

Shortstack

There is little you can do if AA or KK is cracked at this stage of a tournament. AJ vs Q8 is one of those nearly coin flips that people take as a bad beat. There is little longterm value in clinging on to scrape into the bubble unless it is a big buy in event that you have qualified for cheaply. I try not to let myself slip below 4* the big blind through folding, fine if you take a beat. You just about have enough to make people fold with 4 * the BB, apart from massive stacks. I would stick it in with virtually any hand 89 or above, unless you run into a pair 88 or above you are not going to be miles behind and your cards are probably both live. I hate moving in with Ax unless x is J or higher as you are like to be called by any reasonable Ace and be further behind. 89 vs A10 is a far better position than A7 vs A10. The times this works your reward is usually worth the times it doesn't.

From your description you don't seem to have done much wrong, did you move in with AJ or call with it ? If you have a large stack AJ is still a folding hand most of the time vs an all in unless you have good odds.

careca

I start looking at all in hands when I have 10xBB left. Like Shortstack I hate putting it in with A rag (even suited) as if you are called you could find yourself miles behind. I would much prefer at this stage to stick it in with any two suited connectors. Of course if you have a pair all the better (even 22 or 33).

The problem is (as you stated) that most of the time there is action before you and calling with these hands is a lot different from raising with them. If someone raises up to half your stack before you then I would consider calling with reasonable cards and betting the flop regardless of what comes. Course you also need position for this.

Btw, I came 19th in a 522 runner tournie last night on PPP and got $1 for my troubles. It all adds up

Iago

Shortstack wrote:

From your description you don't seem to have done much wrong, did you move in with AJ or call with it ? If you have a large stack AJ is still a folding hand most of the time vs an all in unless you have good odds.

For this hand I had raised from mid position, blinds were 400-800 and I raised to 3,200. BB went all-in for 5k with Q8o, I was pot commited and had to call the additional 1,200.

Lafortezza

Iago wrote:

I lost have my stack when calling a preflop all-in with AA against QK that hit a straight.

Other memorable hands including AJs getting busted by Q8o and

KK getting beaten by A3o...in each case the player was all-in preflop.

It's just your selective memory thinking you're playing badly when these hands go against you. What hands would you prefer to be up against when you're all-in in these situations? You're ahead each time and its just variance than made you lose these hands *this* time.

Iago wrote:

Apart from that I'm only playing if I have a reasonable PP or Ak, AQ, AJ, AT, KQ, KJ, QJ.

Pretty similar to my own standards. I find myself folding AT or worse to any kind of raise when tables get tight nearer the end of a tournament. It is quite player dependant though, especially if a big stack is raising more than his fair share of hands.
One thing you should do is target the blinds of players you see as overly tight. The other good players around the table will be doing this also therefore you'll need to 'take your turn' in stealing blinds. You have to be happy to fold to a reraise or, if pot committed, stick it all-in on a gamble if you raise with crap.

Iago wrote:

As it turns out I went out in both of the latter tournaments when JJ and then TT were called by KK and AA respectively..

Random unluckiness to run into hands like that.

NickyOD

Sounds more like you were the victim of bad luck more than anything else. You had a good stack and you tried to use it to push people around, but you weren't wreckless since you went in with good cards. I think the worst thing you can do with a tall stack in an MTT is sacrafice your table image and start stealing too much, and giving yourself pot odds to call when you get played back at. Cruising to the money is much more important than chip accumulation at this point.

Short stacked late on it really all depends how close to the money you are, how tight the players on your left are, how fast other players are dropping out, where you stand in trealtion tot he other shortstacks, but most importantly what the payout structure is. i.e. are you playing for top or are you happoy to just finish ITM. 10BBs is the norm to forget abnout a standard raise (which would leave you pot committed) and find a hand to push with. Any PP or Ax in late position. If you are shorter than that, like say 6 or 7 BBs you should really be pushing with absolutely any playable hand and hope to either take the blinds or suck out on someone. Even with suited coonnectors like 7-8 you are getting at the very least 2:1 (if you are called by an overpair) and you should take that at this stage of the trouney. If its folded around to you on the SB and the player on your left is tight and you have 6BBs you are even getting positive EV from pushing with garbage like 83 suited (unless you are on the bubble and there are other shorties in trouble).

ionapaul

I think Nicky may have hit the nail on the head - the payout structure will determine how many of us play when short stacked during the latter stages of a MTT. I would normally get fairly aggressive at this stage, particularly so if the first few payouts are fairly insignificant to me (as is the case in the Fitz). If the difference between finishing on the bubble and lasting for another hand were €500+, I would try to cling on by my fingernails That said, I'd certainly play a premium hand (AA, KK, QQ) at this stage, as the lure of building a stack and finishing higher in the money would override any desire to scrape through and go out with a whimper.