PHP or ASP?

DS · 22-07-2001 11:48PM #1

I'm gonna choose one to get into, opinions? (open to other suggestions too btw)

Gamers Europe :: Keeping It Simple

[This message has been edited by Discharger Snake (edited 23-07-2001).]

The Corinthian · 23-07-2001 01:27AM

Just a few thoughts...

If you're beginning to learn how to code then ASP is probably your best bet as it's more accessible to the newbie.

If it's to skill up so as to get into the industry or improve your skills/CV, likewise ASP, as there are more ASP jobs out there than PHP ones.

On the other hand PHP is also a very simple language to learn and has some very powerful features. If you're likely to be (or currently are) working in a UNIX environment, then PHP would be a better choice.

Personally I go through phases of preferring ASP or PHP over each other. If you don't have Java already, try learning it (even just the basics) in tandem, as it'll teach you some very good coding practices.

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

[This message has been edited by The Corinthian (edited 23-07-2001).]

DS · 23-07-2001 02:08AM

If i could dig a little deeper here

and ask which you think is ultimately more powerful, and why. I suppose at the end of the day it rests with my personal needs, but have a go anyway

Gamers Europe :: Keeping It Simple

The Corinthian · 23-07-2001 09:42AM

Originally posted by Discharger Snake:
If i could dig a little deeper here and ask which you think is ultimately more powerful, and why.

Neither is. Both are. Depends

I continually see flame wars appear on one platform being more powerful than another and in truth the majority of these discussions are fuelled by ignorance and fashion (yes, techie fashion - an oxymoron, I know).

Both have dozens of pros and cons, PHP has better session support, in that it supports URL rewriting (ASP does not), while ASP COM support is far superior to PHP’s hack effort at same and its XML support has been patchy until recently, imho.

In conjunction with COM, ASP is a lot more powerful than PHP. However, PHP is portable (ASP can be, but I wouldn’t recommend it) and more scaleable. ASP written in VBScript lends itself to VB development, opening up opportunities in COM or EXE development, while PHP is strictly script based.

If money is an issue, PHP is also a better option. The classic LAMP (Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) architecture that is used with PHP is completely free, while if you’re doing a standard ASP site you would have to pay for NT/W2K and SQL7/SQL2000 licences.

Visual Interdev, the standard IDE for ASP, is far superior to anything out there for PHP.

Ultimately, other than the reasons I gave above, it probably comes down to your platform. If you were Windows based and familiar with NT/W2K then ASP would be easier to get into. If you’re generally dealing with UNIX, then PHP is a better option.

It really does depend on your needs. Portability, scalability, ease of use or maintenance, CV skill sets, platform and your application requirements. If you’re just learning your first server side scripting language, then I’d go with whatever platform you’re more familiar with.

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

JustHalf · 23-07-2001 01:12PM

If I were you, I'd learn PHP.

Why? If you're worried about people hacking your site, your better off using Unix w/Apache. PHP is native to Unix - though there has been a Windows port of it (and a Unix port of ASP).

But most hosts will not offer ASP w/Unix - or Apache with Windows, as far as I know. I don't know how many buffer overrun attacks there are for IIS, but there's FAR too many.

DS · 23-07-2001 06:33PM

Cheers for all the input. I think I'll go PHP first, seen as I'm on a UNIX machine and I have no money

... I like the idea of open source too.

Gamers Europe :: Keeping It Simple

dahamsta · 23-07-2001 08:09PM

I've been staying out of it this time because all the ASP heads are fierce militant altogether (not like us tree-hugging open source loonies) but it has to be said that you made an intelligent choice. Well done.

*snigger*

adam

phaxx · 23-07-2001 08:29PM

Regarding asp, does it come with IIS?

I know php and perl/cgi and other languages, and I'd like to be able so say I can write asp too. I believe you have to pay for the one that runs on unix-based machines? (pay? unix-based machines? EH?)

kayos · 23-07-2001 09:43PM

ASP comes built into IIS and PWS so you should have no probs learning ASP if you have a windows CD.

kayos

When you get to hell tell them I sent you,
you'll get a group discount...

tribes.gameshop.ie

kayos · 23-07-2001 11:05PM

I just want to add one thing to this Tread ASP doe snot have to use a MS SQL db it can use any DB (the easist being those supporting OLEDB or ODBC). If you want you could even write your own COM component to talk to the DB of your choice. As for the IDE Visual InterDev is good but I prefer DreamWeaver UltraDev (better Design tools imho but lacks intlli-sence).

The main thing to consider is where you want to go PHP is very portable but ASP is a more common place Tech. Although I do see JSP taking a bit of a hold in the market. One thing to keep in mind is if you learn ASP moving to ASP.net will be nice and easy for you and that does rock.

kayos

When you get to hell tell them I sent you,
you'll get a group discount...

tribes.gameshop.ie

hinch · 23-07-2001 11:16PM

clearly ASP is the way its soooo simple compared to php and with the advent of .net much much much more powerfull

The Corinthian · 23-07-2001 11:40PM

Originally posted by kayos:
ASP doe snot have to use a MS SQL db it can use any DB

True, but many of the drivers for the other (non-M$) DBs are a little bit flakey (Oracle 8i being a case in point).

Originally posted by hinch:
clearly ASP is the way its soooo simple compared to php and with the advent of .net much much much more powerful

ASP is no more hard or simple than PHP (so much of PHP is 'hidden' away in functions you could argue the opposite).

The reason for ASP's popularity and apparent ease is it's easier for ppl to get into if they're already used to Windows (and VB).

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

[This message has been edited by The Corinthian (edited 23-07-2001).]

The Corinthian · 24-07-2001 01:34AM

Originally posted by dahamsta:
I've been staying out of it this time because all the ASP heads are fierce militant altogether (not like us tree-hugging open source loonies) but it has to be said that you made an intelligent choice. Well done.

The tone of that was a bit partisan...

Originally posted by phaxx:
pay? unix-based machines? EH?

Sure UNIX is always free... Most expensive project I ever worked on ran off UNIX (Solaris). Ir£20M was the price tag, when the dust settled.

Originally posted by kayos:
ASP comes built into IIS and PWS so you should have no probs learning ASP if you have a windows CD.

The PWS version is a cut down model in that it won't have access to many of the goodies that you can get on IIS, such as CDONTS.

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

[This message has been edited by The Corinthian (edited 24-07-2001).]

[This message has been edited by The Corinthian (edited 24-07-2001).]

The Corinthian · 24-07-2001 01:36AM

[This message has been edited by The Corinthian (edited 24-07-2001).]

dahamsta · 24-07-2001 09:54AM

The PWS version is a cut down model in that it won't have access to many of the goodies that you can get on IIS, such as CDONTS.

Not to worry though, you'll have full access to the wide range of security holes made available in IIS, on an ongoing basis and at no extra expense!!!

*further sniggering*

Apache, dig?

Partisan Boy

The Corinthian · 24-07-2001 10:31AM

Originally posted by dahamsta:
Not to worry though, you'll have full access to the wide range of security holes made available in IIS, on an ongoing basis and at no extra expense!!!

No you won't. Do your research, or just stop flame bating.

Non-partisan (who codes in both languages and thus is not just blowng smoke) man

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

The Corinthian · 24-07-2001 12:32PM

Originally posted by dahamsta:
Ah, it's just too easy...

ASP is better than PHP for some things and vica versa. And sometimes you're better off using something like Java servlets and ignore scripting languages altogether.

I've always found the blind fashion for UNIX good M$ bad rather tiresome and misleading.

On the other hand, you probably know this and are just flame bating. Bad boy

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

Shiminay · 24-07-2001 01:14PM

LAMP - I must remember that one!
It's true though, a lovely and free combination - no licences to worry about or any of that tripe

Anyway, I've done quite a bit of stuff in PHP and it took me 2 weeks to learn it (I didn't have a choice). It's cushty and the www.php.net reference system is always there to help you (and it's very good). Spend some time looking at the different kinds of functions it has to offer - some of it made me go "OH JESUS YES! That's a page of code saved!!!"*

I'm now looking at ASP, but I don't have as much time as I'd like on it. However, I did 3 years of VB programming in college, so it's not an altogether alien subject or language.

Give 'em both a lash - make up your own mind. I'm still a PHP man, but as kayos said, JSP is well on it's way to mainstream and everyday use (notice that there are qite a few hosting solutions springing up with JSP support?).

* This is a slight exageration, but it is a time saver.

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
So Bob Hoskins was about to roll a spliff when in walks Dana with her 3 foot Bong
[honey i] violated [the kids]
When the Beefy King arrives, I shall be paying homage with Puunack The Receiver in a haze of green curry.

[CrimsonGhost] · 24-07-2001 03:17PM

LAMP is good, but you can also take a WAMP route with PHPTriad, basically it is apache server for windows with mysql and php included, on install file, and set ups nicely. A quick search on google should find it for you.

db

Molly · 24-07-2001 06:14PM

While your on the subject of asp, anyone know another program i can use besides microsoft access for my databases ?

dahamsta · 24-07-2001 11:06PM

Ah, it's just too easy...

Enygma · 24-07-2001 11:26PM

Wan Adam! Ya flamester!

PHP is nice and easy and you'll have a portable skill which is always nice. Plus it's so similar to Perl that if you're ever asked to write a few small Perl scripts you should have no problems. And since it's got a very similar syntax to C then you should be able to pick that up a little easier too, then Java/C++.

Oh and there's a reason BASIC is called BASIC, and there's a reason Apache is the most widely used webserver in the world. Think about it.
*Disclaimer* That's just my opinion, no need to attack me now

[This message has been edited by Enygma (edited 24-07-2001).]

The Corinthian · 25-07-2001 09:55AM

Originally posted by [CrimsonGhost]:
LAMP is good, but you can also take a WAMP route with PHPTriad

How about a LAPP architecture?

Originally posted by Molly:
While your on the subject of asp, anyone know another program i can use besides microsoft access for my databases ?

Microsoft SQL Server is generally the DB of choice for serious ASP sites.

Beyond this you can use any DB that you have an ODBC driver for. Even MySQL

"Just because I'm evil doesn't mean I'm not nice." - Charlie Fulton

PHP or ASP?

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