St. Patrick's Day

Pal

I know this topic is discussed on other forums in other capacities but from a political point of view I would love to know what can be done to address the anti-social situation.

Could the suits close the pubs a la Good Friday for example ?

Could the judiciary deport the scumbags to Rockall ?

Can we just cancel it and go to work as normal instead ?

Your thoughts please. I'm sick and tired of the same crap every year.

Villain

Punish the offenders hard and educate the youth about the abuse of alcohol from 3rd or or 4th class.

The problem I see is people get away with too much, if your arrested for fighting in a street you should be fined 1000 for the first offence then each time you do it again mulitply that fine by five and a month in the cells in as well.

As for people getting drunk, well you'll never stop that and I don't think St Patricks day is all that differenent from regular satutday nights, it's just theres more families out and a higher media coverage.

If people know their actions will land them in big sh*t they normally tend to think twice, problem is most of the 700 - 800 people arrested will probably get off with a warning or light fine, so next Paddys day they will do the same.

Pal

irish1 wrote:

I don't think St Patricks day is all that differenent from regular satutday nights,

You're kidding ?

Villain

Pal wrote:

You're kidding ?

I mean the same things happen, it's just the scale and extra number of sober people (families) that is different.

Pal

ok. got it.

monument

What I’ve actually see of the coverage this year, the main problem is underage drinking.

And the main solutions should be improving the methods of stopping drink getting into children’s hands, creating and promoting alterative activities (as suggested by the Greens and FG), and increasing police numbers (which is currently being done, apparently).

Pal wrote:

Could the suits close the pubs a la Good Friday for example ?

Yeah, because we really want more on-street drinking. Remember alcohol isn’t like a loaf of bread, alcohol can be stored without going off in a couple of days. Anyway, as I said the main problem as I see it is on-street underage drinking.

Pal wrote:

Could the judiciary deport the scumbags to Rockall ?

Grow up.

Pal wrote:

Can we just cancel it and go to work as normal instead ?

Your thoughts please. I'm sick and tired of the same crap every year.

If it was cancelled and everyone was go to work, the day would still be (objectively) “the same crap every year”.

There's a very simple solution to help just you - stay a home or away from parades and pubs.

Pal

monument wrote:

Grow up

uncalled for:mad:

growler

St. Patrick's Day has evolved into the annual Big Piss Up Day for the Irish, hijacked by Guinness as a marketing ploy and embraced by the youth as an semi-authorised free for all. No surprise then that they end up falling around the streets in a druken stupor, kicking the snakes out of each other and puking on the pavements.

It used to be religious thing, became a celebration of Irish culture for the diaspora and now it's lost any significance to anyone but Diageo and co's sales people and accountants (with the exception perhaps of the more devout members of our society) .

As we're incapable of effectively policing our country on any given saturday night, we can't expect the Gardai to suddenly materialise the bodies to cope with the Patricks Day festivities or the cells, court time to deal with the idiots.

If it wasn't for the nostalgia of watching rubbish parades in the rain as a kid I'd happily get rid of it. It's a shame to see a day that has so many positives to offer being ruined by our booze obsessed culture. It's a sad fact that its always lots of fun in any country outside of Ireland where you don't have pished up 15 year olds.

monument

Pal wrote:

uncalled for:mad:

Yes, it was, sorry.

I just don’t see as “deport the scumbags” to a rock surrounded by water as mature or constructive. But my reaction to it was as equally immature and unconstructive, so, honestly – sorry.

growler wrote:

If it wasn't for the nostalgia of watching rubbish parades in the rain as a kid I'd happily get rid of it. It's a shame to see a day that has so many positives to offer being ruined by our booze obsessed culture. It's a sad fact that its always lots of fun in any country outside of Ireland where you don't have pished up 15 year olds.

On adults and not underage drinking - Yes, but if the message becomes an anti-drink one, rather then a ‘we should be drinking maturely’ one, the battle is already lost.

Pal

Ok no harm done. apology accepted.

I was being purposely flippant for emphasis.

The problem is not so much our drink culture but the
silky tracksuit shower who infest our society.

I know nice places like Paris have slums and undesirables
but we seem to have a per capita unfair share of these
louts and what to do with them is a big problem.

They really excel themselves on Paddy's Day out !

Rockall would work well if you get my drift.

simu

monument wrote:

There's a very simple solution to help just you - stay a home or away from parades and pubs.

Exactly. You're focusing on the drunk and disorderly people who stand out most. What about all the people who enjoyed the festivities without going mad?

Pal wrote:

I know nice places like Paris have slums and undesirables
but we seem to have a per capita unfair share of these
louts and what to do with them is a big problem.

Paris as a city has been planned far more carefully than any Irish city - and the idea of keeping the poor and dangerous outside the city has been part of this. More info here. It's not really a solution because the problems still exist but are less visible. That article deals with the 19th century mostly but there are still some horrible suburbs around Paris these days.

Captain Trips

It's no different to New Years though. Maybe it's even worse because New Years is a "new year" to focus on at 0000hrs, etc., . St. Patrick's Day the focus is eh....eh.....being Irish? So that means.....drinking? I mean, that's what the Irish do, right?

It's a pity it doesn't mean all imported beer is banned and we should trek to Tara to affirm whatver Taoiseach to remain leader of the country! Woohoo!

sceptre

Captain Trips wrote:

It's no different to New Years though.

Oh but it is. Or at least in the scale as irish1 said. Living in the middle of Limerick as I do I was appalled this year to see areas of my city centre street crowded with people boozing outside pubs, their children running around kicking cars and our lovely yoof getting sick on corners. This was at 2 in the afternoon. Perhaps the same thing happens on New Years (though I doubt it's anything at the same scale and it's minus the kids), I wouldn't know as I've generally better places to go than a city centre street on that particular evening (even though I tend to regard it as an arbitrary holiday with no real inherent significance) but I rather doubt it.

PHB

I love this crap, blame it on underage drinking.
Its not just underage drinkers, it overage drinkers too! Infact if anythign they are worse, cause young kids generally get tired and have to go home on the last bus.
Overage drinkers wrecked the streets till 4am

St. Pat's day is the exact same as 4:00am on friday and saturday night

monument

I don’t think anyone here is blaming it solely on underage drinking, but from the coverage it seams to be the far greater problem - all besides the fact that under 18s (at least by law) shouldn’t be drinking.

pork99

Why not tackle the problem at source? If a 15 year old is arrested with a bag full of alcohol from let's say Centra, then Centra lose their license to sell alcohol for good - and no appeal.

I think something like this has already been suggested using the bar codes on the cans to trace where the booze came from? Or did I imagine it?

Something similar could be done to pubs from which the drunk and disporderly emerge.

cdebru

pork99 wrote:

Why not tackle the problem at source? If a 15 year old is arrested with a bag full of alcohol from let's say Centra, then Centra lose their license to sell alcohol for good - and no appeal.

I think something like this has already been suggested using the bar codes on the cans to trace where the booze came from? Or did I imagine it?

Something similar could be done to pubs from which the drunk and disporderly emerge.

what about if they sold it to an 18 yearold who then handed it to a 15 year old what has the off licence done wrong

TomF

I think a lot of the out-of-doors anti-social drinking would be curtailed if there were a hefty deposit put on drink containers.

I mean if someone goes into an offsale or a pub to buy drink to take away, the container should be re-useable, and there should be a deposit charged on same. If the drinker tosses the container away, there goes €5. If a six-pack is tossed, there goes €30. Losing that kind of money might have a wonderfully concentrating effect on the mind.

It would also mean a big reduction on the amount of rubbish on the streets Friday and Saturday nights and Holiday nights.

Nuttzz

TomF wrote:

I think a lot of the out-of-doors anti-social drinking would be curtailed if there were a hefty deposit put on drink containers.

I mean if someone goes into an offsale or a pub to buy drink to take away, the container should be re-useable, and there should be a deposit charged on same. If the drinker tosses the container away, there goes €5. If a six-pack is tossed, there goes €30. Losing that kind of money might have a wonderfully concentrating effect on the mind.

It would also mean a big reduction on the amount of rubbish on the streets Friday and Saturday nights and Holiday nights.

mmm, and watch an increase in muggings for the €5 drink containers...

Bri

monument wrote:

I don’t think anyone here is blaming it solely on underage drinking, but from the coverage it seams to be the far greater problem - all besides the fact that under 18s (at least by law) shouldn’t be drinking.

Since when does 'coverage' give you a good idea of the real state of affairs. Regardless of what level of media your paying attention to, they will be driven more towards the newsworthy topics. Granted it plays a big role, but it's more a product of the older-drinking (IMO) - in terms of role-models, violence, and so on.

monument wrote:

There's a very simple solution to help just you - stay a home or away from parades and pubs.

simu wrote:

Exactly. You're focusing on the drunk and disorderly people who stand out most. What about all the people who enjoyed the festivities without going mad?

Why not just stick your head in the sand? :rolleyes: Anyone should be able to go out without fear of the kind of mayhem I saw Thursday night (not to mention the fact it starts during the day). For instance, I happened to be travelling back from tranquil continental Europe, and was forced to travel through the dump that is O'Connell Street. Urgh. I shouldn't have to change my travel itenery just because we're 'celebrating'. Plus, how far do most of us live from a pub...they're kinda hard to distance yourself from! Perhaps I should avoid the DART as I wouldn't want to get in the way of the vandals? I'm sorry but it's society's problem and just because the majority don't have much issue with it doesn't mean it shouldn't be remedied. If that means the responsible celebrations suffer in the short-run, so be it.

gerrydublin

growler wrote:

As we're incapable of effectively policing our country on any given saturday night, we can't expect the Gardai to suddenly materialise the bodies to cope with the Patricks Day festivities or the cells, court time to deal with the idiots.

It's not a policing issue,
these individuals have little or no fear of being arrested becuase they know that the judiciary in this country will give them a petty fine that has not been INDEXED with inflation since the early part of the last century.
(I don't know why, in case anyone asks, I guess because it's Ireland, so that in itself is an excuse)

Putting more gardai on the streets, just causes more arrests, and more taxpayers money being spent on courts.
The answer should be quite simple, longer detention centres where they are made to do manual work. Not some paid for holiday to "de Joy" where they live in the lap-of-luxury. That will CAUSE a deterrent which in itself in long term will stop such incidents arising. A similar threat worked with the May day riots, but then the Government was accused of being heavy handed so you can't win!

bonkey

I'm sorry but it's society's problem and just because the majority don't have much issue with it

I find it ironic that you're arguing something is a societal issue, and then saying that in our democratic society, it shouldn't matter whether or not its what the majority want.

monument

Bri wrote:

Why not just stick your head in the sand? :rolleyes:

That was in direct reply to..

"Can we just cancel it and go to work as normal instead?"

"I'm sick and tired of the same crap every year."

Bri

bonkey wrote:

I find it ironic that you're arguing something is a societal issue, and then saying that in our democratic society, it shouldn't matter whether or not its what the majority want.

I don't find democracy as cut and dried as that in practice. Without getting dragged into political theory, the people elect representatives with the knowledge that they will do things 'on their behalf'. I can't see how you could argue that solving problems like this isn't in our interests (unless you work for Diageo!). Regardless of cries of nanny state I think it would be pretty hard to argue against the state actively engaging this problem - of course, highly unlikely as the elected reps are generally a product of this society and interested in personal popularity/careers. I've no idea of the numbers but the smoking ban was taken without a referendum and against the will of a large portion of the population...are you against that too? And I'm not exactly calling for prohibition here either.

To put it another way, you don't often see a referendum being called when war is on the table now do you? It is known for governments to act without consultation of the majority...

Gerrydublin: Good point re: sentancing over enforcement.

monument: Fair enough my mistake.

gurramok

simu wrote:

Paris as a city has been planned far more carefully than any Irish city - and the idea of keeping the poor and dangerous outside the city has been part of this. More info here. It's not really a solution because the problems still exist but are less visible. That article deals with the 19th century mostly but there are still some horrible suburbs around Paris these days.

Yes there are similar problems in Paris nowadays but not on scale of teenagers\adults drunkenly and menacingly out of control like over here.
I've walked through one of their nastier suburbs at night, and the police are bloody everywhere you walk no matter what time of night, they enforce the law and cart troublemakers off unlike our wonderful gards who mostly chicken off once the parade is over.
It is safer over there than Dublin if walking through a suburb or city centre at night.
We need to tackle the drink till u get pissed culture here and tackle the on-street violent element and make gardai visible everywhere(city and suburbs), make sure they arrest the troublemakers and the court system makes them pay through the wallet for their misbehaviour.

Boggle

I wasn't out this paddy's so missed alot of it but why shouldn't we be allowed sit OUTSIDE a pub every now and again watching a parade?

This should only become a problem if someone causes a disturbance - in which case the gardai should be on hand to arrest and charge (i.e. not ley the bloody scumbag out the next bloody morning with YET ANOTHER warning!! :mad: ).

Yeah, basically I'm just pissed at the way scumbags in this country get away with doin what they like...