Minimum skillset

Enygma

This may have been asked before but the area is always changing so here goes.
HTML clearly isn't enough anymore so what would ye all say the minimum skillset for a Web Developer (not Designer) is?
I'm not trying to start another flame so instead of going for specific languages, let's just say 'Programming Language'.

I'd say :
HTML
Programming Lang.
Scripting
some graphics


You probably wouldn't get a job without any one of the above. Would YOU hire someone with just HTML? Lots of people I know are into web development and actively looking for work but all they've really got is HTML, and some only use FrontPage. It'd be nice to bring them a list of skills that people would be looking for.

kayos

I would add
xml
xslt
xhtml
some RDBMS (be it MySQL,MSSQL etc)
and take away Graphics as if your a developer you dont need to do these.

I am not a web developer but I mess around with some web stuff (in prep for more web based work coming into my current work place) and imho xml and all related techs are the way forward.

On your last question would I hire someone with just HTML my answer is NO. I am probaly going to get grilled for my next comment but I'll make it anyway. HTML is only a formatting lang and is pretty much useless unless it is dynamic in some way which means a scripting lang (since I'm a windows dev I would say vbs or Jscript but I know there is loads more php etc). I dont honestly think I could justify hiring a person for the sole purpose of writing HTML. But add say Jscript/VBS or the like and yes I would hire them.

kayos

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When you get to hell tell them I sent you,
you'll get a group discount...

tribes.gameshop.ie

Bard

I would say those that you've mentioned, Enygma would constitute the "minimum skillset", but I'd also add a basic understanding and capability of database management and an aptitude for working as part of a team. I'd also possibly add Javascript specifically (although you have mentioned scripting) and IIS/Apache admin abilities.

Agreed with Kayos that graphical skills are not a necessary requirement for a developer (and not a designer) but a basic understanding of graphic design issues is always useful. I'd disagree with Kayos on XML, XSLT and XHTML as these would not be part of a "minimum" skillset IMHO... they're still a little further up the ladder.

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Bard

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Fatter, happier, more productive.

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 27-06-2001).]

Enygma

Hmmm I wouldn't have said Apache/IIS at all. I'd say that's the job for the security person. Firewalls, routers, tunnelling, all that stuff I hear in meetings that makes no sense I wouldn't really say that it would be the job of a web developer to know these things.

I guess DBs would be a big one. Basic knowledge of SQL and accessing a DB from a script would be enough to whet peoples taste.

Hmmm, maybe it would be worth it to set up a resource for people who are interested in the field but don't really know where to start. Once I get some spare time I might slap something together, anyone else interested?

Kali

any web developer should know how to install and configure apache and iis and have experience with them, not every company uses external hosting. Anyway it gives you a good grounding in DNS, VPNs etc. plus if you are using any sort of CGI or serverside programming on a page you need to know how to enable it
also not every business has a dedicated security guru.

Just as a last point I'd be wary of employing someone who had "extensive knowledge" of php, perl, asp, sql etc. without a clue as to how to install the webserver to get them up and runnning (i mean how else did they learn? several free hosting sites?)

Bard

Must say that I think that a proper understanding of how a web server (the two most popular being Apache and IIS) is quite important to a web developer -- in essence I agree with Kali 100% -

web developer does NEED to know these things regardless of what people in other positions do or do not know - it's quite often that these positions may not be filled in smaller companies.

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Bard

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Fatter, happier, more productive.

[This message has been edited by Bard (edited 28-06-2001).]

mewso

A small level of xml would be all to expect as it's an emerging technology really but if you lay claim to knowledge of ASP I would suggest that you should know how to combine the two.
Scripting - you should show you know the difference between client side (javascript, vbscript) and server side(php, asp, jsp) scripting and I doubt if you would/should be expected to know them all. One of each I suppose.
I would imagine that xhtml (not quite xml) would be a good one to look for as it will be the next standard and along with that cascading style sheets is important as alot of tags are becoming deprecated in favour of CSS.

Evil Phil

Yeah, ASP is a good one to have as is some COM development. But if you have vbscript or VB then the jump to ASP is pretty painless. Learn how to administer a web-server though otherwise you'll waste hours chasing bugs in code that are actually config problems on the server. You don't need to know everything just how to set one up and keep it up.

Evil Phil

I think what Kali means is that if you don't know about DNS and VPNs then learning Apache and IIS will give you a basic understanding to build on. At least it did for me, and this board of course.

Ronin

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kali:
any web developer should know how to install and configure apache and iis and have experience with them, not every company uses external hosting. Anyway it gives you a good grounding in DNS, VPNs etc. plus if you are using any sort of CGI or serverside programming on a page you need to know how to enable it
also not every business has a dedicated security guru.
</font>

Kali do you mean that setting up apache gives you a good grounding in DNS and VPNs? Cause if you do I don't see how..or maybe its just too early on a saturday..

Ro

Ronin

Joe bloggs at home who configures apache on his sole box at home won't learn much about dns just from installing it. Unless he goes off a reads through various docs..

If Joe was at the stage were he was gonna host multiple sites via virtual host then he might pick up some very basic info, even then he doesn't have to have any knowledge of dns to implement this at all.

A I'm just being picky..fooooddd..


Ro

Molly

What exactly is xml?
Anything you should know before attempting to learn it?
Wheres a good tutorial?

Bard

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Molly:
What exactly is xml?
Anything you should know before attempting to learn it?
Wheres a good tutorial?</font>

XML is eXtensible Markup Language.

It might be useful to have a working knowledge of HTML or some other markup language as a basis for starting to use it.

Good places to learn about it would include:

http://www.xml.com/
http://www.developmentor.com/tutorials/xml/logon.asp (excellent)
http://www.wdvl.com/Authoring/Languages/XML/

Do a search for XML

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Bard

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Níl aon tóin tinn mar do tóin tinn féin.

Enygma

http://www.w3schools.com is a pretty good place for all things web-related. The DTD, XML and XSLT stuff is really good.

Kali

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ronin:
Joe bloggs at home who configures apache on his sole box at home won't learn much about dns just from installing it. Unless he goes off a reads through various docs..

If Joe was at the stage were he was gonna host multiple sites via virtual host then he might pick up some very basic info, even then he doesn't have to have any knowledge of dns to implement this at all.

A I'm just being picky..fooooddd..
Ro</font>

your probably right to some extent that for the most part you won't have practical experience setting up or dealing with VPNs or DNS servers on a home network, but no way means you don't learn about them, take the samba documentation for example... bloody excellent introduction to all that stuff (well the oreilly html book that comes with it anyway)

Either way thats not apache but im talking about gaining knowledge not experience
although that said its not that hard to add virtual hosts to a box.

kayos

Yep deffo on the Developmentor course there work is second to none (well what do you expect from Don Box's company). Where I woprk we had one of their guys over to give the COM(+) for VB developers course and it rocked very well laid out and expertly given. Well worth looking at their site.

kayos

---

When you get to hell tell them I sent you,
you'll get a group discount...

tribes.gameshop.ie

Molly

Thanks Bard i know html and am learning asp at the moment, ws just wondering what else i could try learn.

damnyanks

If your into the whole mark-up area Learn CFML its the best thing since air. It is a scripting language thats amazing fast powerful and easy to learn. The only set back is the price its not free like other major scripting languages but unless your a host you dont need to worry about that.

Enygma

Actually you can download a whole bunch of CFML-like tags from jsptags.com from free.
Especially take a look at Jakarta-Taglibs here: http://jakarta.apache.org/taglibs/