Car Mechanics and the NCT

Yank

I was a little suspicious when I read on the NCT website that the private organization is not affiliated with any car repair shops or the car repair industry -- why should they feel the need to say this? It reminds me of a child who is called over to his mother and says "I didn't do it" before she even starts to give out to him.
So my car failed the NCT, as most cars do on the first try -- on such faults as a driver's side window that won't roll down, a steering wheel that the tester "thought had a little play in it, but can't be sure", corrosion on the underbody, and, of course, misaimed headlights. What do you know -- the tester recommended a mechanic to me! So I took the bait, took the car to that mechanic, left it with him for half a day, only to be told that the car won't be ready until next week and that the total cost of repairs would be 450 euros. Thinking that sounded steep, I asked for the breakdown of the costs -- not a chance! The mechanic nearly bit my head off for asking, and told me to take my car somewhere else, that he wasn't going to get involved in any "horse trading." So I retrieved my car, and overheard this same mechanic talking to a smartly dressed man in a beamer, telling him in a polite tone that his car, with mostly the same faults as mine, would be ready this afternoon. I guess he could charge the BMW driver a lot more than me without any hassle, so he didn't mind the loss of my business.
My first question: is it law in Ireland that a car mechanic must provide a detailed estimate of the cost before starting any repair work? In the few times I've had to get my car repaired here, I've had mechanics who will do the whole job before I even know the cost -- or who will tell me one cost and charge me something quite different (and be very hostile to the idea of explaining why the charge is different).
My second question: has anyone else had similar experiences with NCT evaluators recommending particular mechanics?

parsi

They state that they are not affilated because all they do is NCT work. I thnk (prob wrong) that in the UK MOT tests are performed by regular garages who obviously have conflicts of interest. Seems strange that you were recommended a mechanic - that hasn't been mentioned before in the complaints.

Not being able to roll down your drivers window is a fault - how can you give handsignals and misaimed headlights are a perennial pain though maybe they should be tested more often...

rondjon

Yank wrote:

My first question: is it law in Ireland that a car mechanic must provide a detailed estimate of the cost before starting any repair work? In the few times I've had to get my car repaired here, I've had mechanics who will do the whole job before I even know the cost -- or who will tell me one cost and charge me something quite different (and be very hostile to the idea of explaining why the charge is different).

It's not the law to provide a detailed estimate, but it's common sense to get one before you ask anyone, not just mechanics, to do any kind of work for you.

Unfortunately, people just don't ask. And because everyone doesn't ask, mechanics don't feel that they have to, because other people will just go ahead and get the work done - like people with BMWs who have more money than sense.

dulux

As somebody that worked in the motor trade for a number of years, yes I have to agree that the workshop manager/receptionist should have given you a round about estimate of parts price and estimated hours. Pricing jobs on older cars isnt an exact science. I have worked on many older cars where small jobs have mushroomed in to bigger jobs and sometimes this is hard to justify when you hand over the bill. I also think the NCT test is a rip off. I have heard of one place in particular that if you leave 60 euro in the glove compartment you car will pass even if it was on fire. I used to perform engeneers reports, the old "MOT" certs and if somebody had an issue with their car I could give them an estimated price on the spot. In fact I dont think you have to be a Mechanic at all to get a job as an NCT inspector.

If that had been me I would have taken my car to somebody I trust anyway that can stand behind their work.

By the way I own a BMW and I dont have lots of money to throw around but I dont have to wait for an NCT tester to to tell me when a wondow not rolling down is a fail and should be dealt with for every day driving anyway.

Dont ever be afraid of spending money on your car its a very dangerous weapon when not maintained.

Yank

Ok, fine, I'll accept that the window is a fail -- it's just such an annoying thing to fix! And if it's such an obvious fail, why isn't it listed on the outline of things they check for the test? I have decided to take my car to a mechanic I know -- don't know what his estimate is yet, but he did a good job replacing the clutch a couple of years ago.
I think there's quite a few mechanics around who won't touch an old car -- it's too much hassle for them. I tried to get the window fixed on my 93 micra several times by different mechanics, and none of them would do it -- one of them even told me I should just get a new car. So I had to fix it myself, until it got to the point of being reglued so many times that I couldn't fix it anymore.
My car runs very well, is very reliable, and has virtually no emissions. This is why I am irked that I have to pay loads of money to pass the NCT. If I had the money to buy a newer car, of course I would -- which is what the government wants: Ireland full of new shiny cars to show off all its new money.

parsi

Yank wrote:

Ok, fine, I'll accept that the window is a fail -- it's just such an annoying thing to fix! And if it's such an obvious fail, why isn't it listed on the outline of things they check for the test? QUOTE]

I dunno - maybe they think that its something you would notice

Hellrazer

Can I ask a question?

Did the NCT tester strongly recommend this garage to you or was it more of an off the cuff remark like" try this place down there"??

As far as I know the NCT are strictly NOT ALLOWED to recommend a garage for repairs nor is an NCT tester(who btw are all qualified mechanics) allowed to repair any car after hours as a nixer.
If it was a strong recommendation then maybe the tester had an invested interest in the garage ie--could be part owner or something.

ambro25

Don't know about the NCT (but will in April for the 1st time - shudder), but I needed my Impreza servicing after coming over from UK (2.0, non-turbo, '97, 60k).

As it's a biggie (60k), I asked the Scoob dealer in Bray for a quote. Fair enough, reasonably detailed breakdown of charges provided: total €1500 :eek:!

Rang the Scoob dealer in Sheffield (where I came from), same service, same cost centers (usual suspects + timing belt and a valet) - total £355.

+ Ferry over @ €200 or so return, travel of about 120 miles @ about €0.40 averaged cost per mile = tonsa cash left for the boozer with my English mates

The Moral? ALWAYS get an estimate before handing the car over. Moreover, a quote should be binding and the law -as far as I am aware- is that you do not have to pay for work carried out without your permission.

Which is why you NEVER should tell a garage to just "do everything that needs doing", or words to that effect, when you drop your car in for a service. If the mechanic finds a new problem, they must contact you prior to carrying out the work in question and obtain explicit authorisation - if they just go ahead and do it, what they can expect (legally, but again AFAIK), in decreasing order, is:
1 at best, for you to feel grand and pay what they ask,
2 ideally, "just retribution" for the labour and cost price for the parts,
3 at worst, sweet FA.

Yank

Hellrazer wrote:

Did the NCT tester strongly recommend this garage to you or was it more of an off the cuff remark like" try this place down there"??

I asked him what he thought would be the necessary work needed to repair the underbody, and he said that someone with the same kind of corrosion went to this particular mechanic and they did a great job of it. He didn't push it like a salesman or anything, but he offered this recommendation of where to go without my asking him. Then I overheard someone else at the mechanic's shop (the BMW guy) also saying he'd failed for the same problems and had been sent there for the repairs.

I don't think I could catch him out on it, because it would probably seem "off the cuff" to most people.

But it was really the refusal of the mechanic to explain how he came to the figure of 450 euros that shocked me, and his irate reaction when I asked him to explain it. He must get a lot of business thrown his way from the NCT if he's willing to tell me to "feck off" just for asking for a breakdown of the estimate.

Capt'n Midnight

Yank wrote:

on such faults as a driver's side window that won't roll down, a steering wheel that the tester "thought had a little play in it, but can't be sure", corrosion on the underbody, and, of course, misaimed headlights.

You might try to get a door off a scrapped car.
Corrosion on the underbody - if it has rusted through on something structural then it would cost a lot to repair properly, while you might hide it before the test, they will retest for isopon other stuff you aren't allowed put there..

You can get a copy of the NCT test from the Government Publications Office - very handy lists the pass and fail limits.
have you tried ringing up another garage to get a price on the repairs for comparison ?

Yank

I'll be taking it in to a hopefully trusty mechanic tomorrow just for the underbody -- and will have the rest done by another guy that I know on Weds...will let you know what they charged and how it all went. Probably will be just as expensive, but at least they won't bite my head off just for asking for an estimate.

Yank

An update on my car, for anyone interested:
I went to a body shop and had the underbody repaired for 150.
Went to my local mechanic and had everything else fixed for 230.
That's a total of . . . 380. A significant difference from 450, and they each completed their tasks in one day. So, if the NCT recommends a mechanic to anyone else on here, it's probably best to take it somewhere else.
Next, the retest. We'll see.

Yank

Any Galwegians out there interested in this particular rip-off, check out a front page article in this week's Advertiser. The city council is investigating claims made by members of the public and mechanics about a possible scam by the NCT. They want anyone with a complaint to come forward in a public meeting. www.galwayadvertiser.ie

RicardoSmith

I think this happens every where. I took one of ours cars to a main dealer to get it serviced and to get the service history updated, since the previous owner (my sis) hadn't got it updated since buying the car from new. Even though she'd had it serviced there the whole time. I asked them to give me ring if they spotted anything unusual or that would increase the cost of the service.

When I rang them later to see if the car was ok, they told me it need new discs/pads at the front and new cylinders at the back and all in it would cost me in the region of €500. I was a bit shocked and thought I would have noticed if the car needed new discs. I told them I didn't want it done and he told me they'd already started on it. I told them I didn't authorise the work. They insisted it couldn't be undone, so I said I couldn't pay for it. So they said they'd undo what they had done. I called to pick up the car, and it was obvious it hadn't been touched. I paid for the standard service. I got the service history updated, which was really the only reason I was there.

Just to sure I took the car to my local mechanic and he said he couldn't see anything wrong with the brakes. The car passed the NCT about a week later, no problems.

I've had a number of similar experience with main dealers, garages etc in the past. I think its really difficult to find somewhere, or person thats not going to try and rip you off these days. When you find a reliable mechanic hes usually swamped with work.

The NCT seems to be caught up with the same problems. Though like I said in another thread, the non-Irish people in the test centers seem to be more reliable.

mike65

RicardoSmith wrote:

I've had a number of similar experience with main dealers, garages etc in the past. I think its really difficult to find somewhere, or person thats not going to try and rip you off these days. When you find a reliable mechanic hes usually swamped with work.

The NCT seems to be caught up with the same problems. Though like I said in another thread, the non-Irish people in the test centers seem to be more reliable.

No doubt its cos they don't know the guy who runs/works in, the garage down the road...not being "on the inside" keeps ppl honest.

Mike.

MrC

Sounds like the Gardai should be made aware of the activities of these f***ers. Perhaps contact with your local TD. Could of course all be a great big string of coincidences, so don't accuse them of anything. Just point out that you are curious as to why.............BTW contact details for parent company:
SGS SA
1 Place des Alpes
P.O. Box 2152
1211 Geneva 1
Switzerland

Phone: +41 22 739 91 11
Fax: +41 22 739 98 86

Davidth88

I too think the NCT is used by the motor trade to rip off unsupecting motorists.
I put my car into the local dealer to have a ' pre-nct check' , I basically wanted them to check the emissions and the lights because I can't do this myself.

I was informed that there was no way my car would pass without at least 1500 euro work done on it including.

Repair a dent in the boot
Replace some trim that was slightly loose
Replace the rear wiper that wasn't working.

Now interestingly all these faults were present on the car 2 years ago when the car passed it's NCT. When I put this to the gararge they got a bit flustered and didn't know what to say.

Needless to say , what I did was put the car into the NCT and it passed.

I also replaced the two front tyres , when I put it into a large nationwide tyre company to do this they informed me the rears needed changing too , I told them in no uncertain terms that no they didn't ( I had done it 4 k miles before ) and of course the next day when I put into the NCT the rear tyres were not mentioned.

sceptre

Davidth88 wrote:

Repair a dent in the boot

I would doubt that this would cause a fail in the test (unless there's a hole or a sharp gash there and even then I half-doubt it though I'm not familiar with the requirements beyond the basics) so I reckon the garage was just trying it no there. Happy to be corrected about the requirements obviously.

RicardoSmith

I had a car with a lots of panel damage and bits of trim missing pass the test. Some guy ran into the side of the car two days before the test. Once theres nothing sharp sticking out to catch cyclists or pedestrians, I don't think it matters.

Capt'n Midnight

Davidth88 wrote:

Replace the rear wiper that wasn't working.

The rear wiper wasn't on the original NCT test manual and we got a car passed two months ago with a burnt out rear wiper motor. You've passed too.

If they are a garage they should have an NCT manual. Ask them to show you in their copy where it specifically states says that a rear wiper must work. Front wipers yes - rear wipers nope. The manual only costs a tenner (inc. postage - and you can pay by VISA) and if they haven't got one name and shame because they are con artists.

Think about it - only hatchbacks have rear wipers, and hatchbacks are allowed drive with enough stuff to block the back window (that's why they have to have two side mirrors - whereas other cars only need one) so why do you need a wiper to see through a window you don't need to be able to see.