Ckampions league qualification!!!

meditraitor

Just been reading a piece on LFC TV about qualification for CL

European football's governing body has clarified the position regarding Champions League qualification for next season should Liverpool triumph in this season's competition. Victory in the final in Istanbul on May 25 would not automatically guarantee the Reds a place in the 2005/06 Champions League tournament if they finish outside of the top four in the FA Barclays Premiership.

A UEFA spokesman has confirmed that in the case of such a scenario it would be left to the discretion of the Football Association whether or not Liverpool would be put forward to defend the trophy.

If the FA decided to do this and their request was accepted by UEFA the then the team finishing fourth in the Premiership would drop into the UEFA Cup.

"One country cannot have more than four places - it would be up to the FA to make the request for Liverpool," says the UEFA spokesman.

While rule 3.1 of the Champions League regulations states: "At the request of the national association concerned, the UEFA Champions League title-holders may be entered for this competition ... if they have not qualified via the top domestic league championship.

"If, in such a case, the title-holders come from an association entitled to enter four teams for the UEFA Champions League, the fourth-placed club in the top domestic league championship has to be entered for the UEFA Cup."

What do ye think?, will the FA relegate SAY everton to the UEFA Cup if Liverpool win the CL and they are outside the qualification places.

M

eirebhoy

There's still a long way to go if Liverpool are to win the tournament but if they did I don't think the FA would change anything. 4th spot was a CL spot at the start of the season and I don't think they'll change it without much notice.

TwoShedsJackson

Well Everton will obviouisly be mighty pissed off if this happens, but I would rate the chances of Liverpool actually winning the trophy as remote, at best

yop

It won't be an issue so won't lose any sleep over it!

p.pete

Liverpool are going to win the CL so it should be interesting to see how this one works out. Obviously seemings as we're good enought to win the CL finishing above Everton in the league will be a formality.

In the worst case scenario though where we win the CL but finished 5th it would be cool to get Everton's noses up and get offered their place for next season

KdjaCL

As posted above the PL would not allow Everton to be removed from the CL unless it was agreed at start of season.

Would be unfair to Everton and they would sue and win. Must be horrible not being the best team in Merseyside, you must get a lot of stick walking the streets there.

kdjac

p.pete

KdjaC wrote:

Must be horrible not being the best team in Merseyside, you must get a lot of stick walking the streets there.

You're only as good as your last derby, which liverpool lost still, the next one will be soon

astrofool

I think if you won the CL, qualifying for next year or not would be a moot point.

PiE

KdjaC wrote:

As posted above the PL would not allow Everton to be removed from the CL unless it was agreed at start of season.

I doubt it's ever been an issue before, so why discuss it at the start of the season. They'd have to send in the holders to defend the title, it'd be retarded for them not to.

KdjaCL

PiE wrote:

I doubt it's ever been an issue before, so why discuss it at the start of the season. They'd have to send in the holders to defend the title, it'd be retarded for them not to.

So it also be retarded for anyone with a possibility of qualifying for the Cl tru 4th to be ehh trying to qualify.
It would have to be agreed at the start otherwise it would be unfair on whoever finishes 4th.

It is a moot point tho Liverpool have no hope of winning it.

kdjac

p.pete

4th place = CL qualification is a presumption on my part certainly but where is it written in stone that this is the way things definitely are? I can see equal merit for the 4th place team (based on precedent) and the CL winners (based on them getting a chance to defend the trophy).

Is it actually written into the league rules? if not I don't see why Everton would win a legal battle over the issue.

astrofool

well as in IF liverpool did win it, they probably wouldn't really care if they qualified for it next year (not for a few months anyway...)

KdjaCL

Its Uefa rules that the FA must submit 4 teams, for the winners to not qualify the FA must decide on whether to allow the winners or 4th to enter next years compo.

As the 4th placed team are playing now for the qualification to the CL to deny them that would lead to legal action as it states in the FA/PL rules 4th place = CL spot. Uefa and FA rules are not watertight as regards legal so Everton would win if this happened and would get that spot assuming they finished 4th.

As at the start of the season 4th place was Cl spot to deny them that at the end of the season would be unfair and most definitley lead to a legal challenge. Be good crack tho if Pool got it make the next Derby super special

kdjac

p.pete

KdjaC wrote:

Its Uefa rules that the FA must submit 4 teams, for the winners to not qualify the FA must decide on whether to allow the winners or 4th to enter next years compo.

As the 4th placed team are playing now for the qualification to the CL to deny them that would lead to legal action as it states in the FA/PL rules 4th place = CL spot. Uefa and FA rules are not watertight as regards legal so Everton would win if this happened and would get that spot assuming they finished 4th.

As at the start of the season 4th place was Cl spot to deny them that at the end of the season would be unfair and most definitley lead to a legal challenge. Be good crack tho if Pool got it make the next Derby super special

kdjac

Yes - Uefa rules say that the FA submits it's choice of 4 teams - which has always been the top 4 teams. The situation hasn't arisen before though where the winners weren't among the top 4. So like I said in my last post, is it just a presumption that we've all had that 4th = CL spot or is it actually written into the league rules? I don't see the merit of a legal case if it's just based on a presumption - obviously it's worth millions to either club so a legal battle would definitely ensue but I wouldn't be convinced of their chances of winning.

BaZmO*

A big fat LOL at this thread!!! Liverpool at not going to win the Champion's League end of story.

The only thing that holds any validity is the fact that Liverpool won't qualify 4th at the end of the season and as they won't win the CL there's not much point in this thread.

B.

KdjaCL

BaZmO* wrote:

A big fat LOL at this thread!!! Liverpool at not going to win the Champion's League end of story.

The only thing that holds any validity is the fact that Liverpool won't qualify 4th at the end of the season and as they won't win the CL there's not much point in this thread.

B.

But then its no fun to see them get their hopes up

kdjac

p.pete

BaZmO* wrote:

The only thing that holds any validity is the fact that Liverpool won't qualify 4th at the end of the season and as they won't win the CL there's not much point in this thread.

You're soooo wrong - we've already booked our travel arrangement to Turkey in May. It's going to be a great final and a sweet victory. It's nothing to do with getting our hopes up - I speak for every Liverpool fan when I say that I expect us to win the competition this year.

BaZmO*

p.pete wrote:

You're soooo wrong - we've already booked our travel arrangement to Turkey in May. It's going to be a great final and a sweet victory. It's nothing to do with getting our hopes up - I speak for every Liverpool fan when I say that I expect us to win the competition this year.

It's a pity that your captain doesn't have the same faith in the team as you seem to have!

B.

p.pete

BaZmO* wrote:

It's a pity that your captain doesn't have the same faith in the team as you seem to have!

He does really - it's the Liverpool school of diplomacy - of course he can't come out and say the pool are going to win the competition, that'd just be rubbing all the other teams noses in it. Gerrard is about to win the CL two years in a row (unfortunately the second time won't be with Liverpool) so he's trying to calm his excitement.

yop

"He does really - it's the Liverpool school of diplomacy - of course he can't come out and say the pool are going to win the competition, that'd just be rubbing all the other teams noses in it. Gerrard is about to win the CL two years in a row (unfortunately the second time won't be with Liverpool) so he's trying to calm his excitement."

What is that sh*t u smoking Pete Can you buy it on the net?

p.pete

yop wrote:

"He does really - it's the Liverpool school of diplomacy - of course he can't come out and say the pool are going to win the competition, that'd just be rubbing all the other teams noses in it. Gerrard is about to win the CL two years in a row (unfortunately the second time won't be with Liverpool) so he's trying to calm his excitement."

What is that sh*t u smoking Pete Can you buy it on the net?

The ecstacy of being a Liverpool fan in these heady days man - you should convert, tis a great buzz

The Rooster

I dont think legal action is a runner. Its not dissimilar to Milwall making the FA Cup final, thereby depriving a team in the league (Villa?) of a UEFA Cup spot.

There is actually something of a precedent (although of course wouldnt be binding on the FA) out there. One of the years Valencia got to the final, they finsihed outside the top spots in La Liga. Real Mallorca had finished in the last of the CL places in La Liga. The Spanish FA decided that if Valencia won the CL, they would defend the trophy and Mallorca would go into the UEFA Cup. As Valencia lost it ended up as a non-issue (as this one probably is!!) - though it is something the FA should make a formal policy decision on, to avoid potential fights if something like this ever did come to pass.

I presume the same also applies to the UEFA Cup. If Newky win it, and dont otherwise qualify (which is probably more likely than the Liverpool position), the FA would then have to choose between Newcastle and the lowest placed qualifier in the league for the UEFA Cup spot in 05/06. So its defo something the FA should address, and the sooner the better.

Hydromonkey

As far as precedent goes in 2000 when Real Zaragoza, who finished fourth in the Spanish Primera Division, were only awarded a Uefa Cup place, as fifth-placed Real Madrid won the Champions League that season.

Also, the FA supremo who makes the decision, Brian Barwick, is a lifelong Liverpool fan.

Hopefully shouldn't need this as by this time next week Everton's lead could be down to 2 points.

Chucky the tree

the winner will be definites favours to be given qualification if they finish outside automatic places, and its only fair.

TO win the CL is huge, and very difficult(not saying to 4th). Its only right the champions get given the chance to defend the title.

Can somone some me the rule where it states 4th place = CL? chances are it says 4 teams will be nominated, and people just presume 4th = definite CL place.

kaimera

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/NewsFromTheFA/Postings/2005/02/EuropeanQualification.htm

Chucky the tree

So basically it will come down to the FA's choice? and Everton cant legally sue? in that case liverpool would get the CL qualifcation.

But, the have a much better chance of finishing 4th then actually winning it.

Guy:Incognito

They FA can decide to stick in any 4 english teams they like. They could decie that the bottom 4 in the conference if they so wish.

p.pete

Stekelly wrote:

They FA can decide to stick in any 4 english teams they like. They could decie that the bottom 4 in the conference if they so wish.

Hmmm, seems to me that putting Everton in ahead of Liverpool would be a bit like Ireland entering My Lovely Horse into the Eurovision.

eirebhoy

I'm sure Everton would find something to sue them on. Surely a high profile figure in the FA let slip that "the top four" will qualify for the CL at one point. That should be enough.

p.pete wrote:

Hmmm, seems to me that putting Everton in ahead of Liverpool would be a bit like Ireland entering My Lovely Horse into the Eurovision.

Washout

As an everton fan Id love to see us in the CL..but lets be realistic for a second.

If Liverpool finish fifth and win the CL then by wining the CL they surely deserve to go ahead and defend the crown.

Everton were expected to be relegation matereal at the start of the season. so a UEFA cup spot would still be a super achievement.

TwoShedsJackson

Between this and Everton not being able to enter the European Cup a couple of times in the 1980s due to Heysel, you couldn't blame them for being pissed off

p.pete

TwoShedsJackson wrote:

Between this and Everton not being able to enter the European Cup a couple of times in the 1980s due to Heysel, you couldn't blame them for being pissed off

He (Washout) sounded rather civil to me...

Pigman II

In that scenario I think it'd be fairer to give the spot to Everton. After all the winners of the World Cup no longer automatically qualify anymore so why should the Champions league be any different?

p.pete

p.pete wrote:

You're soooo wrong - we've already booked our travel arrangement to Turkey in May. It's going to be a great final and a sweet victory. It's nothing to do with getting our hopes up - I speak for every Liverpool fan when I say that I expect us to win the competition this year.

Wow - I said that on March 14th, a month ago to the day

LegacyUser

I hope it is Liverpool V Ac Milan in the final. Please knock Chelsea out please...

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Guy:Incognito

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

They're not getting a free pass because they are Liverpool. Winning the competition is a bit more than a "free pass" in my book. It was'nt very eloquently put by P.pete but can you honestly, hand on heart, say that Everton would of still been in the competition at this stage if they qualified last year? Or that they'd have a serious run at it next year. They had a great run in the first half of this season, but have been trading off that since. With the run Everton are on, they should be some distance behind Liverpool. But liverpool are very inconsistant and it's all their own doing that they are looking up at Everton.

TheMonster

but can you honestly, hand on heart, say that Everton would of still been in the competition at this stage if they qualified last year

PSV are still in it this year so by your logic can you honestly say hand on heart that PSV are better than Barca,Arsenal,Juve,Real Madrid etc. Not necessarily the best teams that get far in competions.

If Everton finish 4th they will have deserved it. The world cup is a precedent that Everton can argue in their favour.

PHB

The CL is a less accurate reflection of who is the best in the premiership than the league table is.
If Liverpool beat Chelsea in the semi final and go onto win the CL, do they deserve to be in the CL more than CHelsea do?
Bull**** they do, they couldn't compete over the 38 games so Everton are a better team, full stop.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

p.pete

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Liverpool have proven pedigree in all European competitions - Everon have none

If we were to pick either Liverpool or Everton for automatic relegation at the end of the season (purely hypothetical), at the moment there would be a presumption that Everton are the better team due to league position and that would be end of story. Similarly, Liverpool are sitting pretty in the semi finals of the Champions League, Everton have no experience of the competition - why should they be there?

TheMonster

If we were to pick either Liverpool or Everton for automatic relegation at the end of the season (purely hypothetical), at the moment there would be a presumption that Everton are the better team due to league position and that would be end of story.

And if they have more points they are - end of story. As I said PSV are also in the semis. Liverpool raised their game for 30mins of a match against a team that underperformed.

Similarly, Liverpool are sitting pretty in the semi finals of the Champions League, Everton have no experience of the competition - why should they be there?

So what you are really saying is you want a super league with no qualification and entry based on past perfromances in Europe. Come back to the real world, :rolleyes:

If Everton finish ahead of Liverpool they deserve their place.

I think Liverpool fans are secretly worried they will do a Leeds - remember they had a good CL run a few years back and didn't qualify and look what happened to them. Qualification to next years CL is far more important than winning this years.

p.pete

TheMonster wrote:

And if they have more points they are - end of story. As I said PSV are also in the semis. Liverpool raised their game for 30mins of a match against a team that underperformed.

What exactly have PSV got to do with which English team qualifies for Europe? I'm sure they would have no problem beating Everton if that's what you're hinting at - also they've got a reasonable European history, are usually near the top of their domestic league and have made it to the European Cup final before.

p.pete

TheMonster wrote:

So what you are really saying is you want a super league with no qualification and entry based on past perfromances in Europe. Come back to the real world, :rolleyes:

Not at all mate - I think it's already strayed from being a pure cup competition and shouldn't stray any further - also I think teams should have to qualify each season based on their previous seasons performance. This should include being able to defend the trophy should the previous seasons performance include winning the competition.

By no means am I saying Liverpool would deserve to be there if they didn't win the competition and by no means am I saying winning the competition should give them entry for more the just the following season (as a league formation would indicate).

<edit>

TheMonster wrote:

I think Liverpool fans are secretly worried they will do a Leeds - remember they had a good CL run a few years back and didn't qualify and look what happened to them. Qualification to next years CL is far more important than winning this years.

Lol, we don't have the same Leeds fixation that, say for instance, Man U fans have

pickarooney

p.pete wrote:

What exactly have PSV got to do with which English team qualifies for Europe? I'm sure they would have no problem beating Everton if that's what you're hinting at - also they've got a reasonable European history, are usually near the top of their domestic league and have made it to the European Cup final before.

And won it!

I think the FA should do the decent thing, if ti comes down to it, and nominate both Liverpool and Everton, along with Manchester United and Chelsea. Arsenal fans could probably do without another embarassing season of underperforming in Europe and it would probably help their Premiership campaign.

On the issue of money, I think it's worth a good deal more to qualify as opposed to not qualifying than it is to win compared to reaching the semis.
Real Madrid got a lot more money from the Champions' League last year than Porto, despite going out a few rounds earlier.