Rulings

Lafortezza

Pretend you're the Poker Floor Manager, what would you do in each situation?

Use spoiler tags when you reply! [spoilre]*answer*[/spoilre] (spelled correctly obviously)

Case 1
Limit Game, 9-handed.
Player A checkraises player B on the river.
Player B looks at his cards, has that defeated look on his face, pushes his cards forward of the action line but does not unprotect them (he has 3 chips on top of his cards). He sits back arms folded.
Player A sees this as a muck and tosses in his hand.
Player B calls.


Case 2
Hold'em cash game. SB is busy stacking his chips from the previous big hand.
He doesn't immediately see the cards that are dealt to him.
UTG folds instantly, tossing his cards into the middle of the table, where they land closer to the SB than the ones he was originally dealt.

The button raises with 66, and the SB, realising the action is on him, picks up the discards folded by UTG. He calls with Qx.
Flop comes Q high, Button bluffs on flop and turn, SB calls and wins with pair of Queens.
After hand is over UTG realises that SB played the wrong hand.

Should SB's hand be ruled dead since he played the wrong cards? Should it matter?


Case 3
Hold'em, I have AQo against 2 players.
Flop is Q-8-3, I bet and get called by both.
Turn: 2, first guy bets half the pot, I reraise him the same amount, 3rd guy folds.
Before the first guy has a chance to decide whether to fold/call/raise, the dealer deals the river: an 8.

What is the correct thing to do?

bohsman

* the 3rd one I know for sure, in the Fitz you give the player the option wheter he wants the raise/ call whatever you then reshuffle the rivercard with the rest of the deck and deal a new river, If it happened on the turn you would burn and turn the river face down and just reshuffle the deck with the previous turn Couldnt be bothered thinking about the other two Im going home to bed*

never used these spoilermajigies so dont know if itll work

DeVore

Tough questions:

Case 1 I'd rule it had been mucked. They are over the line and the guy made movements to indicate that he was folding (saying nothing, pushing cards forward, folding arms). In light of the information we have, I'd rule he folded. Card protectors are fine for stopping the dealer mucking your hand by accident but Brendan will confirm that on one occasion very early on in his career, he reached over to my hand (well behind the line and in seat 7!) and mucked my hand while we were waiting for a guy to call my bet. My hand was mucked and yer man was allowed to raise me!

Case 2: Significant action has taken place. I wouldnt like to rule on this one, but my ruling would be that he played the hand in all honesty and would have mucked them if they were bad. Think of it this way, what would happen if he had LOST....

Case 3: Agree with Oscar.

DeV.

BrendanB

Case 1. I don't think it's safe to definitively call Bs hand as dead, in sofar as if I was dealing I'd have to ask before taking them. It B isn't definitely dead, then A is premature in throwing the hand away, B wins the pot. You should never presume a hand is dead until is absolutely is. For example, at a showdown player shows over a hand and the other pushes it towards the dealer without it touching the muck. First player asks to see the cards, second player grabs cards and turns over winning hand. Second player wins the pot. Action lines aren't set in stone, as anyone playing at the ends of tables 1 or 2 in the Fitz well knows.

By the way, the example Tom mentions was in a 5 euro sit and go with 5 players, I was dealing and playing, and it cost him 300 chips. Long memories

Case 2. It's a messy one, I'd be inclined to say the SB has seen two and only two cards he thought in good faith were his, and significant action has taken place, he wins the pot.

Case 3. It happens regularly and there's a specific Fitz rule.

Krusty_Clown

Case 2: He picked up the incorrect hand. He made a mistake. Unfortunate, but he has no-one to blame but himself. Once the cards are dealt, you have a responsibility to look after your own cards, right? Very difficult to prove though. One man's word over another. I guess a tournie manager would have to let it slide, without the burden of proof.

mewso

1.

Tough one this. Weighing things up though I would escort player A from the building and bar him from playing tournaments for 5 years. A harsh punishment means you learn quickly

2.

Again how to blame anyone for this. The only way out is to let the button player choose 20 cards from the deck and if he can beat the SB's hand then so be it.

3.

This is you Luke? Fair enough invoke the "As long as it holds no advantage for Luke" rule. Well established by now.

Lafortezza

Case 1

: Personally I'd say Player B's hand is dead. He gave every indication that he folded apart from removing his chips from his cards. Especially since he pushed his cards over the action line (towards the dealer).
Player A should be warned about folding before the pot is awarded to him but I think the pot is his anyway.

Case 2

It may sound harsh but SB loses the pot. He didn't play his own cards and didn't take due care in minding the cards that were dealt to him.
Seeing that significant action had taken place I wouldn't kick up a fuss if everyone was given the money they put in the pot back.

Case 3

As oscar said. And the dealer should be abused. Especially if it was Marq.

Marq

I'll take all the abuse you want as long as you throw me a few quid when you win a hand.

One:

hand is dead. and other guy should be reminded never to muck a hand until the pot has been pushed to him. also it's easy enough for the dealer to ask the guy who pushed his hand over the line whether it is his intention to muck his hand.

Two:

significant action has taken place and the player made an honest mistake. this one stands

Three:

what oscar said. i have no independent thoughts