Strong C-Band LNB on Sky.

HarryD

Hi Guys,

I'm in Budapest trying to align a 2m dish to Astra.
It was originally installed as a "Strong" service..
and had a "strong" LNB and receiver.
My question is, will the LNB work with Sky Digital ?
The model is SRT L915
Also written on it is:
Universal single LNBF
Input: 10.7 - 12.75GHz
Noise Figure: 0.6dB Max
SRT L915 DIGITAL READY C-BAND LNBF

I tried aligning the dish last night with a sky receiver,
and a satellite meter.
I got a reading on the meter but nothing on the box.
I was told that the meter would only read something,
if it's seeing the correct satellite (astra).
I'm not sure if this is true.
Perhaps I was seeing the wrong satellite ?

Any help much appreciated,
Thanks,
Ray.

Zaphod

You seem to be describing 2 LNBFs. One a 'Universal' Ku-band (10.7-12.75GHz) and the other a C-Band (3.4-4.2GHz) - a completely different frequency range. You can recognise if it is a C-band LNBF if it has the large scalar rings like in the link:
http://www.strong-technologies.com/frmProdDetails.aspx?id=60#

A Universal LNBF will be much smaller in comparison.

Re: the meter. If it is an analogue meter, like it will be 'dumb' and will be unable to distinguish one satellite from another. Most common are the needle type:
http://www.satelliteonline.co.uk/satfinder_kit.htm

If is a digital meter, like the Horizon, it will be able to identify satellites.

HarryD

Thanks for the reply Zaphod..

The LNB is described as a C-band on the website,
but written on it is 10.7-12.75GHz which suggests
it's a Ku-band universal LNB..
It doesn't look like the one on the page with the rings,
but rather like a normal sky digital LNB.
Here's a pic of it:
http://www.systemabc.sk/!products/images/product_27.jpg
And more info
http://www.systemabc.sk/?go=products&cat=2&pr=27

The meter does look like the needle one
just it has LEDs instead of a needle, suggesting it's a dumb one
(Which would make sense as it was cheap)
So it should react for all satellites ?
I thought maybe the sky box was affecting which satellites
it responded to.

The receiver is listed here as an analogue receiver..
so maybe the LNB is analogue ?
http://mediavox.hu/catalog/index.php?cPath=22

Thx
R

Zaphod

If your LNBF looks like the one in the pic with the yellow cap and has the 10.7-12.75GHz frequency range, it most likely is a Universal 'digital ready' LNBF for an offset dish.

The Strong analogue receiver could be used to locate Astra 19E (Eurosport, CNN etc). Astra 28E would then be east and lower elevation than it. If you're just starting out, it's much easier to align a dish and get your bearings using analogue channels than digital ones. Analogue channels can be seen to get progressively clearer/snowier on a TV screen, whereas digital channels either appear or don't.

Unfortunately there are no analogue channels on Astra 28E.

If you have a digibox, then you may have a tough time trying to receive the RTÉ and BBC channels with a 2M as they are on a tight footprint over Britain and Ireland.

http://www.astra2d.co.uk/footprint.htm
http://www.astra2d.co.uk/hungary.htm

The other Sky channels should be receivable however. Sky News might be one to look out for.

HarryD

Thanks again.
I think the LNB is ok

I've read reports of 1.7m dishes in Budapest been able to get Astra2D
(RTE, BBC ..etc)..
This is primarily what I'm after, as most of the rest is junk.
Hopefully 2m is enough to pull-in the signal.
I'm going to try it this evening...
I'll have my friend watching the signal meter on the TV (via sky box)
and I'm on the roof swinging on the dish
Once it get's locked he'll tell me..

My only other concern is the co-ax between dish and box.
I don't think it the CT125 (?) that's recommended for Sky,
but hopefully it won't affect the signal too much.
It's quite long too.. about 70ft

as regards elevation of the dish..
I got a dish diection calculator, off www.smw.se
It reckons I need my dish elevated to 35degrees for Budapest !
For Dublin it says 26degrees, but I remember aligning dishes at home,
and they were basically horoziontal pointing toward the horizon..
I'll try both options I guess..

R

Zaphod

Good quality CT100 (e.g. Raydex) should be OK for 70ft, although if the signal is just on the threshold it might be worth investing in CT125.

35 degrees is the correct elevation for Astra 2D in Budapest. 26 isn't!!

Also it's easier if the receiver is tuned to a stronger channel when aligning the dish, such as Sky News (12.207 GHz, V, 27500, 2/3). At least if you find that initially, you know the dish is in the right direction more or less, and you can go fiddling with other settings (elevation tweaking, LNBF skew, cable, different LNBF model etc) in order to maximise reception of the weaker RTÉ/BBC signals.

Tony

HarryD wrote:

Thanks again.
I think the LNB is ok

I

R

I'm not sure that a universal such as this is suitable for your dish, usually they use a feedhorn and c120 type. lnb

HarryD

Tried again in vain last night.
I didn't have a compass so I was estimating diection and elevation.
I picked up a few signals but none that the sky box reacted to

Zaphod wrote:

Good quality CT100 (e.g. Raydex) should be OK for 70ft, although if the signal is just on the threshold it might be worth investing in CT125.

I don't think I'm using either. I think it's just standard co-ax.

Zaphod wrote:

35 degrees is the correct elevation for Astra 2D in Budapest. 26 isn't!!

It says 26 is correct for Dublin.
But having aligned dishes at home, they point towards the horizon
as opposed to 26degrees up

Zaphod wrote:

Also it's easier if the receiver is tuned to a stronger channel when aligning the dish, such as Sky News (12.207 GHz, V, 27500, 2/3). At least if you find that initially, you know the dish is in the right direction more or less, and you can go fiddling with other settings (elevation tweaking, LNBF skew, cable, different LNBF model etc) in order to maximise reception of the weaker
RTÉ/BBC signals.

I can tune to the above channel using manual tuning ?
I can't change channel as I haven't got an EPG yet.
So I just get the Sky Signal meter up (under Services -> Signal Test)
I know this isn't the quickest at reacting, but better than nothing.
I would have thought it would react to Astra 2A /2B

If I had a compass, and maybe a protracter, things would be much easier..
Now where can I get these

I'm not sure that a universal such as this is suitable for your dish, usually they use a feedhorn and c120 type. lnb.

I'm using the same LNB that was originally on it.
It's held in position by 3 arms coming from bottom of dish.

Macy

HarryD wrote:

But having aligned dishes at home, they point towards the horizon as opposed to 26degrees up

Probably an offset dish?

seano

Use the old receiver you have and try to pick up astra 1.

This will give you a reference point.
Astra 2 is about 9 degrees to the left (seen from behind the dish)

When you have astra 1 switch over to the sky box.

Lower the elevation about 3 degrees and move slowly to the left.

No picture or signal ,go back to where astra 1 is and lower the elevation a bit more.Repeat the action

---

moving of the dish to the left

The cheap signal reader kills off a lot of signal and is always best to take away the signal reader when you think you have a signal and reset the box.

If you have SKY news on 501 then use this to find the satellite.Remember it is about getting picture (the meter is only an indicater--when you have picture you can fine tune it using this meter)

Zaphod

It sounds from the above that you had an offset dish in Dublin but are using a Prime Focus dish in Budapest.
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/satellites/english/anatomy/comm/dish.html
So the offset appears as though it's point towards the horizon more so than the prime focus.

If it is a prime dish, then as Tony said, your LNBF is the wrong type. That's not to say it won't work but you won't be making full use of the dish area, as in the second example here:
http://www.smw.se/qa/qa10.htm

To find the elevation for a prime focus dish, lay a plank across the face of the dish (or the back plate of the dish) and measure the angle with an inclinometer, or el cheapo method, a plumb line attached to a protractor.
http://www.satsig.net/azelhelp.htm


When you say standard coax - do you mean like TV aerial cable? That will impact really badly on you signal.

HarryD

Zaphod wrote:

It sounds from the above that you had an offset dish in Dublin but are using a Prime Focus dish in Budapest.

I think I'm using an offset dish in Budapest too, as the LNB,
is not at the centre of the dish, but below it.
I should try and get a photo.

If it is a prime dish, then as Tony said, your LNBF is the wrong type. That's not to say it won't work but you won't be making full use of the dish area, as in the second example here:
http://www.smw.se/qa/qa10.htm

It was previously setup by a professional so I'm assuming he knew
what he was doing and the LNB is ok.
I'm not quite a professional yet..

When you say standard coax - do you mean like TV aerial cable? That will impact really badly on you signal.

Yeah, it looks like standard co-ax.
This has me worried, and I thought it wouldn't have a significant effect,
on the signal quality.
It's white (any CT100/125 I've seen is black). I'll check the di-electric, sheilding.

Zaphod

If it is an offset dish then it should have elevation markings on the back of the dish mount. Set the elevation to 35 degrees and then slowly move the dish left and right (i.e. changing the azimuth) while watching the sat meter. When you find it, you can then fine tune the elevation for maximum signal.

If you download the Gorbtrack program, it will give you a reading of what time the sun is located at 28E also (i.e. it will have the same azimuth as Astra but with a different elevation) so you can use that as a yardstick as to where to move the dish left or right.

http://members.chello.nl/~berry.walda/GorbTrack_NL.htm

vsat

have fun.

HarryD

So I finally got my hands on an 'intelligent' satellite meter and aligned the dish.
As expected the reception on 2D channels is dodgy.
BBC1 - breaking up.. Nothing on BBC2

I'm using the original co-ax, which may be standard 75ohm TV co-ax,
and a 0.6dB universal LNB.
Does anyone know would upgrading to 0.3dB LNB and CT100/125 significantly increase my chances of fully getting the 2D channels ?
I believe alot of the LNB's are 'claimed' 0.3dB but not many are true.

I'll check out the make of the current co-ax this evening.

Tony

Good Coax will definitely help if you have a longish run, go for CT125 if you can. You are right about the LNB's some figures quoted are dodgy, the invacom .3 is very good though with the correct feedhorn.

Also try "skew" adjustment which means rotating the lnb in its holder by a few degrees.

I know guys who have 2d in budapest so it should be possible for you.

HarryD wrote:

So I finally got my hands on an 'intelligent' satellite meter and aligned the dish.
As expected the reception on 2D channels is dodgy.
BBC1 - breaking up.. Nothing on BBC2

I'm using the original co-ax, which may be standard 75ohm TV co-ax,
and a 0.6dB universal LNB.
Does anyone know would upgrading to 0.3dB LNB and CT100/125 significantly increase my chances of fully getting the 2D channels ?
I believe alot of the LNB's are 'claimed' 0.3dB but not many are true.

I'll check out the make of the current co-ax this evening.

Zaphod

As Tony says cable is very important, particularly so when you can get the channel but it's breaking up (i.e. you're just within threshold of the tuner), and even more so if the cable is running over a long distance. CT125 is the one to go for - worth the extra expense - although it can be a little difficult to work with.
http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/coaxcablequalityhmdim.htm

As to an LNBF, there is a report in the current issue of Tele-Satellite magazine which gives great praise to the "Smart Titanium Edition 0.2dB" LNBF, which according to the reviewer even outperforms an Invacom LNBF. As it happens he was testing it for reception of the BBC channels in Germany. Prices vary for the that LNBF - I've seen from €12 to €30 on German sites, so shop around. Ebay is also worth a look.

Tony

Zaphod does that titanium come in C120 feed form,from what i've seen on web it looks like 40mm collar ? Harry might lose any benefit the lower noise figure gives if the feed does not match up, just a thought. We really need a dish photo harry to nail this one

HarryD

Took a look at the co-ax last night.
Written on it is: "Co-ax cable RG-6U Columbia"

Tony wrote:

try "skew" adjustment

I tried skew adjustment when at the dish.
Rotating it up to 45degrees didn't affect signal strength significantly,
so I just put it back to it's original position (apx -8degrees)
Perhaps I should tune it for quality (V or H) ?

Zaphod wrote:

"Smart Titanium Edition 0.2dB

Intersting - I didn't know these existed.
I think I'll invest... single one on ebay is 11EUR + del - cheper than invacom

The current LNB is actually the standard universal type with 40mm collar.
So I don't think I'll loose quality with the Titanium..

This dish is similar to this one http://www.roxsat.com/img/dish/AZ90.gif
Except there are 3 arms holding the LNB in place.
The LNB is off-centre, as in this one, so maybe it's an offset dish.

Tony

Lookms like its offset so titanium should work. Lose the RG 6 though its not as good as I think you need. Adjust skew for quality if you can.

Titaniums look like good value so I've ordered some.

Ronan|Raven

They got a very good review in the last TELE-Satellite. Dr Dish gave them a thumbs up and at the price im tempted to buy one and see for myself. Seems to give a little bit extra in borderline situations. May help in finding those feeds that I love so much.

Tony

Ronan|Raven wrote:

They got a very good review in the last TELE-Satellite. Dr Dish gave them a thumbs up and at the price im tempted to buy one and see for myself. Seems to give a little bit extra in borderline situations. May help in finding those feeds that I love so much.

is there a URL for the review Ronan ?

Ronan|Raven

might be on drdish.com I read it in the hard copy magazine. Might be able to scan it in at work tomorrow if you like.

Zaphod

Tony wrote:

is there a URL for the review Ronan ?

Tele-satellite review page one - 224KB
Tele-satellite review page two - 314KB
That must be worth at least a 10% discount off my next order from satellite.ie!

While I'm busy infringing Dr Dish's copyright, as a quid pro quo plug Reads now stock Tele-Satellite mag as well as Easons. The current issue comes with the World of Satellites CD-ROM which contains the latest Satcodx database listings + other tools such as one which gives an estimate of dish size required for different sats based on your location.

Coincidentally, Reads also offer a 10% discount on Easons' magazine sale price - cosmic forces at work or what?

Tony

Thanks, is that Reads in Nassau st.? no prob on the discount just remind me I've orded some of these so I'll post results/reaction on boards

Zaphod

Yeah, Nassau St.

I messed up the links above.

Page one review:
http://members.boards.ie/zaphod/smart1.jpg

Page two review:
http://members.boards.ie/zaphod/smart2.jpg

Tony

how is the reception coming along?

HarryD

Tony wrote:

how is the reception coming along?

Reception on 2D channels has not improved..
I just ordered a smart titanium 0.2db LNB..
Through some contacts I got my hands on a card,
which will get me the 4 Irish channels without requiring a sub..
So now the stakes are higher

bauderline

Sorry for a slight hijack of this thread, but I would like to ask Tony where the best place is to get my hands on C125 around Dublin ?! Also are the rolls of satellite cable B&Q punting off at the moment any good ?

bet rgs. baud.

Tony

bauderline wrote:

Sorry for a slight hijack of this thread, but I would like to ask Tony where the best place is to get my hands on C125 around Dublin ?! Also are the rolls of satellite cable B&Q punting off at the moment any good ?

bet rgs. baud.

We usually get it to order length from wholesalers but I dont know of any retailers who stock it. The b& q stuff seems to be PH100 which is pretty decent and last time was well priced, what are they charging per metre now?

telecinesk

Harry,
Im not far from you though 200km north of Budapest. Ive see reports of 2D on a 1.8m dish with 0.3db lnb here (Lučenec near the border above Somoskoufalu/Salgotarjan) but RTE is on a Horizontal transponder and your going to have real difficulty pulling it in.
Unfortunatly so is BBC NI and London,so Im less inclined to bother.
My friend in Eisenstadt Austria has same situation.

For some odd reason known to physics the Vertical signals are a lot stronger in this part of europe. I have a 1.2M dish and am below the threshold but am able to measure the signal here at least and using both a nokia 9500 and a dbox2 and a needle meter for comparison.

Heres the report from the astra2d website.

"
Lučenec - 250 km sout-east from Bratislava
DVB Echostar AD 3600 IP Viaccess
1.8m Prime focus MABO Polish dish
LNB Invacom SNF-031 Feedhorm without skalar rings
,Coaxial Cable,VCCJY 75-7,25,13 meter long
Posted 29-08-04
I get only the VERTICAL transponders, 10788 V,10818 V,10847 V/ all day long without interruptions. The strongest signals is in the evening, at about 20.00, and the weakest signal is at about 08.00.
"


Let us know how you get on anyway. Regards, D

HarryD

telecinesk wrote:

Harry,
Im not far from you though 200km north of Budapest. Ive see reports of 2D on a 1.8m dish with 0.3db lnb here (Lučenec near the border above Somoskoufalu/Salgotarjan) but RTE is on a Horizontal transponder and your going to have real difficulty pulling it in.

Thanks for the info Telecinesk.
I'll keep you posted on how I get on..
I can't seem to source CT125 cable out here..
Can anyone tell me if there is an equivalent here ?
http://stores.ebay.de/satcompany_Sat-Koax-Kabel_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm

TIA
R

Zaphod

bauderline wrote:

Sorry for a slight hijack of this thread, but I would like to ask Tony where the best place is to get my hands on C125 around Dublin ?! Also are the rolls of satellite cable B&Q punting off at the moment any good ?

Radionics.ie have CT125, 100M for €90. Stock number 365-032.

HarryD wrote:

I can't seem to source CT125 cable out here..
Can anyone tell me if there is an equivalent here ?
http://stores.ebay.de/satcompany_Sat-Koax-Kabel_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQftidZ2QQtZkm

None of that stuff is CT125 grade. It's not even CT100. The pictures show it has an aluminium/plastic shield whereas CT125/100 has a copper shield. See the link on the previous page for a full description of different cables.

telecinesk

HarryD, Theres a satellite shop very near Keleti railway station.Kind of round the corner etc. They also sell expensive hifi equipment, I cant remember off hand the name, I know I have a docket from them around.
I will see if I can get the address. Downstairs,its like a basement they sell all sorts of stuff. Is it called Sat-Tronic kft?
Is there a local Yellow pages, theyre bound to be listed. In the meantime I will go look for address. btw Bring a Hungarian, they dont speak english there.
Regards, D

HarryD

telecinesk wrote:

HarryD, Theres a satellite shop very near Keleti railway station.Kind of round the corner etc. They also sell expensive hifi equipment, I cant remember off hand the name, I know I have a docket from them around.
I will see if I can get the address. Downstairs,its like a basement they sell all sorts of stuff. Is it called Sat-Tronic kft?
Is there a local Yellow pages, theyre bound to be listed. In the meantime I will go look for address. btw Bring a Hungarian, they dont speak english there.
Regards, D

Yeah, I heard about that place, at the end of the 24 tram line.
I'm hoping to call to them, it's just difficult with the limited opening
times of shops here.. especially at the weekend..
I've checked out a few other sat shops around and none seemed to have
the smart titanium LNB or CT100/125 cable..
I'm might try these guys today at lunchtime..
Thanks for the help.
R

Tony

How about mail order from Germany Harry ?

HarryD

HarryD wrote:

I'm might try these guys today at lunchtime..

Just back from a stressful trip.
These guys (www.antenna.on.hu) stock only RG-6 co-ax.
While I was there, I checked out dishes and LNB's
Biggest dish is 1.5M
Best LNB is Globo (goldo?) 0.3db.
I think I'd prefer to stick to the known brands with this.
The stressful part was seeing some guy getting CPR in the train station.
It didn't look good when I left (after 20mins).. poor man.

Tony wrote:

How about mail order from Germany Harry ?

This might be the only option.
Know any good sites Tony ?
I found a place here selling semi-airspaced dielectric with silver foil and copper braid co-ax. Type C from here: http://www.wrightsaerials.tv/coaxcablequalityhmdim.htm
I'd still go for CT125 if available conveniently.

Zaphod

A quick google came up with Radionics in Germany and an equivalent in Hungary.
http://www.rsonline.de/
As above stock number 365-032 - €103 for 100M

Looks like only an agency in Hungary.
http://www.rs-components.hu/online.html which redirects you to rs-export.com for the online catalogue.

Tony

HarryD wrote:

J
This might be the only option.
Know any good sites Tony ?

Eh no and i hate recommending competitors I'm sure other guys on here know good german sites though

telecinesk

Hi,
Found the docket with the cam I got there>
Its, Satsystem, Gyárto, Syolgáltato és Kereskeselmi KFt. Fogarasi ut 14. 1148 Budapest.
Tel: 4682175 , www.satsystem.hu

Anyhow, go down the stairs,turn left and the counter has all sorts of stuff in front of you. Theyre nice people.

HarryD

telecinesk wrote:

Hi,
Found the docket with the cam I got there>
Its, Satsystem, Gyárto, Syolgáltato és Kereskeselmi KFt. Fogarasi ut 14. 1148 Budapest.
Tel: 4682175 , www.satsystem.hu

Anyhow, go down the stairs,turn left and the counter has all sorts of stuff in front of you. Theyre nice people.

Ah Nice one !
I think I saw these guys up near Tesco..
I'll give em a shout next week..
Thanks telecinesk !

HarryD

BTW anyone know what transponder the Irish TV channels are on ?
They don't seem to be listed on lyngsat. (just Irish radio listed)
There seems to be difficulty getting H transponders in this part of the world

TIA
R

Edit/ I just found it .. 43 10744 H ... bugger

telecinesk

Horizontal, I think i had said this earlier. RTE in their infinate wisdom are on a H transponder so unless you move to Sweden where apparently its the Vertical signals that are weak your not going to get RTE.

By the way, did you go visit the shop i recommended?

HarryD

telecinesk wrote:

By the way, did you go visit the shop i recommended?

Heading up that way tomorrow..
I'm hopeful of getting the Irish stations..
That's the main reason trying this.. not as interested BBC..etc
Hopefully decent cable and the 0.2db smart titanium LNB will help..

telecinesk

Let me know how you get on.
Im due in Budapest around 24th this month to collect something so would be interested in seeing this for real. RTE is a real bit of work to get over here.

HarryD

telecinesk wrote:

Let me know how you get on.
Im due in Budapest around 24th this month to collect something so would be interested in seeing this for real. RTE is a real bit of work to get over here.

They only had RG-6 co-ax too..
The guy there was quite helpful, and told me that a 2m dish is not enough
to get the channels over here..
I'm gonna give it a shot anyway, I got my smart titanium 0.2db LNB,
and dish, so I just need to get my hands on some decent cable..

Sponge Bob

Has anyone found a good online source for CT100 and CT125 at all?

Tony

Sponge Bob wrote:

Has anyone found a good online source for CT100 and CT125 at all?

No just bad ones

HarryD

Now the management company of the new building I'm in, have refused me
premission to put up a 2m dish on the roof, as apparantly the roof is
in bad condition.
I can however put it in the attic space, but I guess with weak
signals like that from 2D, dish in the attic is not a option.
Can anyone confirm this ?
I'll be using all good quality equipment:
- 0.2db LNB (Smart titanium)
- Sensitive receiver
- CT125 co-ax
- Proper Sky digital meter for aligning the dish.

Looks like I'll have to can the project

Zaphod

If you were having trouble getting sufficient signal with the 2 metre on the roof, then it'll be nigh on impossible to receive the 2D channels in the attic. You'd need a pretty big skylight to get full use of the dish area in any case.