Ireland's Most Dangerous Roads

Doodah7

From the AA Ireland Website:-

Findings of major analysis of the safety of Irish Roads published

The risk of death and injury to drivers is six times greater on rural single carriageways in Ireland than the risk on Motorways, and double the risk of dual carriageways. This is among the findings from the first major analysis of the Irish major road network carried out under the European Road Assessment Programme - EuroRAP - published today by the AA.

Irish single carriageways have a collision rate of 11.5 fatal or injury crashes for every billion vehicle kilometres in the Republic, 12.4 per billion in Northern Ireland. Remarkably given their excellent road safety record overall, British single carriageways are no better with a rate of 12.4.

But most striking is the fact that similar roads in Sweden are far safer. It is clear that there are lessons for Ireland to learn from Sweden in terms of road design and management, including the more widespread provision of crash barriers and '2+1' lanes roads.

"91 per cent of collisions on our road network happen on single carriageways." Says Conor Faughnan, public affairs manager of AA Ireland. "We simply must find ways of making those roads more forgiving. At speeds of 100 kph, head on crashes or collisions with roadside objects or pedestrians are invariably fatal. We must find ways of recognising the causes of these routine, predictable deaths and managing them out of our road system."

"Driver behaviour will always be the biggest factor in road deaths. But human beings make mistakes. We have to have roads and systems that are designed to be more forgiving when collisions occur. This is being achieved for cars because of the influence of EuroNCAP crash tests. It can be achieved for roads as well, and the type of innovations taking place in Sweden are leading the way."

As a daily user of the N81 which has been classed as 'medium to high' risk, I pray for the day when they actually do something about this road. At a guess, I would estimate that approximately 75% of the road between Tallaght and Blessington does NOT have a hard shoulder. Unbelievable...

Alun

tallpaul wrote:

As a daily user of the N81 which has been classed as 'medium to high' risk, I pray for the day when they actually do something about this road. At a guess, I would estimate that approximately 75% of the road between Tallaght and Blessington does NOT have a hard shoulder. Unbelievable...

I've driven that road quite a few times, and can't see that it is any more dangerous than any other N road in the country I've driven on to be honest.

Also I've nothing against hard shoulders, per se, but you'd be hard pressed to find many single carriageway roads in the UK, or many other countries for that matter, that have them. Is it just one of those Irish things?

I'd be happy enough if the existing roads were just of a serviceable quality, with no potholes, well defined and marked edges proper drainage, good markings including cats eyes and proper signposting without turning them into vast wide areas of tarmac with hard shoulders capable of taking 5 cars abreast.

mike65

Alun wrote:

I'd be happy enough if the existing roads were just of a serviceable quality, with no potholes, well defined and marked edges proper drainage, good markings including cats eyes and proper signposting...

As would we all but thats not what the NRA are interested in and the local authorites either dont have the resources/inclination/authority to attend to such matters.

I think one of the most dangerous roads is the "Naas Duelcarrigeway" simply cos the volume of traffic is so great and going so fast on sections of such bad quality road.

Mike.

murphaph

Here's a map:
map

.....and the full report for the ultra-geek:
report

mike65

I see the raod between Waterford and Kilmeaden is one of the worst, I use it every working day! Its only dangerous at one section namely the s bends at Bawnfawn. Theres is a particularly badly sited junction into Dooneen but very few incidents "caused" by it.

The last two fatalities were an Amercian tourist crashing off into the verge going west and a truck driver going to quickly at bottom of the bend going east and falling off the road. So the leson is pay attention and slow down a tad (you can take the bends at 100 kph if you're competent).

Mike.

Tobias Greeshman

Alun wrote:

I've driven that road quite a few times, and can't see that it is any more dangerous than any other N road in the country I've driven on to be honest.

I was originally astounded when I heard this on the news on night, but I think the problem with the road is that everyone commuting from the south-east to dublin uses it. A lot of construction workers and having driven on it, people take some stupid risks on this road, it truly is lethal. There is a couple of straights but for the most part it is quite windy and dangerous.

Try travelling this road at about 7:00 on a weekday morning and tell me if you feel safe driving on it.

mike65

Mike.

Bogger77

tallpaul wrote:

"91 per cent of collisions on our road network happen on single carriageways." Says Conor Faughnan, public affairs manager of AA Ireland. "We simply must find ways of making those roads more forgiving. At speeds of 100 kph, head on crashes or collisions with roadside objects or pedestrians are invariably fatal. We must find ways of recognising the causes of these routine, predictable deaths and managing them out of our road system."

another case of making the statistics say what you want them to say, saying 91% of crashes take place on single carrageways, what % of the irish roads network is single carrageway, More than 91%, I would reckon. Remember that this figure would include city streets, boreens, vast majority of N class roads, all R and L class roads.

murphaph

Conor Faughnan is some man for the spin alright.

John R

Bogger77 wrote:

another case of making the statistics say what you want them to say, saying 91% of crashes take place on single carrageways, what % of the irish roads network is single carrageway, More than 91%, I would reckon. Remember that this figure would include city streets, boreens, vast majority of N class roads, all R and L class roads.

If you read the quote carefully you would see that the figures were based on accidents per vehicle kms driven not on overall numbers per road type. Although no method is perfect that is by all accounts it is a very fair way of measuring risk.

Doodah7

trust_no_one wrote:

I was originally astounded when I heard this on the news on night, but I think the problem with the road is that everyone commuting from the south-east to dublin uses it. A lot of construction workers and having driven on it, people take some stupid risks on this road, it truly is lethal. There is a couple of straights but for the most part it is quite windy and dangerous.

Try travelling this road at about 7:00 on a weekday morning and tell me if you feel safe driving on it.

That's my point, there is only one straight piece of road between Blessington and Tallaght and when a line of -literally 50 cars behind a slow gravel lorry - badly needs to be upgraded...

John R

The N81 is an awful road for it's whole length. Lots of straight sections with sudden sharp bends to catch out the unsuspecting.
Tallaght - Blessington is made much worse by the constant stream of quary trucks spilling muck all over the road, the slightest bit of rain and it becomes a slippery mess.

thejollyrodger

i hope there are some plans to tackle these black spots. it would save hundreds of lives

DubTony

Bogger77 wrote:

another case of making the statistics say what you want them to say, saying 91% of crashes take place on single carrageways, what % of the irish roads network is single carrageway, More than 91%, I would reckon. Remember that this figure would include city streets, boreens, vast majority of N class roads, all R and L class roads.

But is it not true that motorways and dual carraigeways carry most of the traffic? If that's the case, then the 91% of crashes on single carraigeways is extrememly high.

Tony

Our man in Havana

Must avoid that N62 from Thurles to The Horse and Jockey.

TBH. I think the N52 from Mullingar to Kells is lethal with the amount of sharp bends on it. I hate driving it with a passion. I am always relived to see Mullingar after driving it. The rest of the N52 is excellent esp in Offaly.

cyclopath2001

There's no such ting as a dangerous road in Ireland, only dangerous drivers.

The AA is using road safety to push the roads/cars agenda.

joseph brand

Roads can be bad, but accidents are down to the driver.

What's the story with drivers not letting a another driver in front when they indicate that they intend to move in front on a dual carriageway??

The driver will just move forward blocking the other and hence you might miss your turn off??

Everyone is in the biggest hurry of their life and it's disgusting.

I hate the Irish!!!

Occidental

Bond-007 wrote:

Must avoid that N62 from Thurles to The Horse and Jockey.

TBH. I think the N52 from Mullingar to Kells is lethal with the amount of sharp bends on it. I hate driving it with a passion. I am always relived to see Mullingar after driving it. The rest of the N52 is excellent esp in Offaly.

Can't believe the Mullingar-Delvin section isn't marked red or black.

The Ballymahon-Cavan road is particular fun. Lethal road, mixed with Northern reg trucks and cars with a death wish.

Saruman

I would think most accidents are in overtaking... Firstly any slow muppet should move over into the hard shoulder to let cars go by rather than force them to overtake. I dont just mean slow trucks etc, i mean drivers driving 40kph on a 100kph road, sure you dont have to aim for 100 but you can at least go a respectable speed.

The big thing is to add slow lanes... You know where a section of hard shoulder becomes another lane for slower vehicles to move into and let faster ones by.
This is very obvious once you hit Cork.. there are a few of them there and its great.

thejollyrodger

I thought the plan was to have 2+1 national routes as standard. on the face of that there seems that very little has been done. Has the NRA any plans for road re-alignment on those roads, i have been on a few of them and they are dreadfull.

The AA is using road safety to push the roads/cars agenda.

We need upgrade the entire road network so that it is at least safe to drive.

thejollyrodger

NRA 'fighting uphill battle' over one-off housing on main routes
ADVERTISEMENT
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1355429&issue_id=12189
THE National Roads Authority (NRA) complained yesterday it is "fighting an uphill battle" to stop councillors giving planning permissions for houses along main roads, increasing the chances of accidents.

Harry Cullen, NRA head of safety, revealed they had an ongoing fight to restrict access onto main roads.

Motorists making right turns off such roads have been linked by experts to numerous fatal crashes where they are either hit from behind, side-on, or trigger head-on smashes involving other vehicles overtaking.

Speaking at the EuroRAP launch in Dublin yesterday, Mr Cullen said councillors in Clare had accused the NRA of being a "bullyboy" by objecting to applications for new houses adjoining main roads.

The planned multi-million-euro roads programme for Co Clare is in jeopardy following a decision by councillors to ignore government restrictions on building one-off houses on national routes.

In adopting the Clare County Development Plan councillors pressed ahead with easing restrictions on the building of one-off houses on primary and regional routes in the face of threats from the NRA that it would halt its planned programme.

A council planner also warned that the councillors' move would increase the risk of road traffic accidents with the consequent loss of life and injury.

The authority said it would greatly regret having to take such steps, but would have no alternative in view of the serious safety issues.

Mr Cullen said cars and lorries turning off main roads into developments were a main cause of road deaths.

Treacy Hogan

How can we realisticallly expect to build a safe national roads when people are allowed to build absolutely anywhere near a national route :rolleyes: The NRA shouldnt have to fight a battle at all. People should just not be even thinking of building a house near national routes. If the route was widened and they lost their house they would be looking for compo. Its pathetic.

loyatemu

some 2+1 road projects are due to start this year - some roads are being retrofitted and and others are new builds. However it will be a long time before 2+1 is the norm on N roads.

seamus

cyclopath2001 wrote:

There's no such ting as a dangerous road in Ireland, only dangerous drivers.

The AA is using road safety to push the roads/cars agenda.

I agree. The only thing is, any news I saw last night did make reference to the fact that it was inappropriate speed and overtaking that were the cause of the bulk of the accidents. However, people will always overtake. If we can upgrade the roads that are (a) Too busy for their current size and (b) conducive to dangerous overtaking (the N81 fits both categories perfectly), then we can reduce both the amount of poor overtaking taking place (since the road will be deisgned to allow safer overtaking), and increase the margin of error, should someone be driving at an inappropriate speed.

Poor driving does cause these, but that's no reason not to upgrade the roads. Driver education can only help reduce the volume of poor driving, but people will always make poor decisions. Roads must be designed to accomodate these poor decisions.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote:

Poor driving does cause these, but that's no reason not to upgrade the roads. Driver education can only help reduce the volume of poor driving, but people will always make poor decisions. Roads must be designed to accomodate these poor decisions.

So, we must spend lots of money, destroy the landscape, and rip through rural communities because some people are too selfish to drive carefully?

seamus

cyclopath2001 wrote:

So, we must spend lots of money, destroy the landscape, and rip through rural communities because people drive like idiots?

No, we must replace these roads, because they offer little to no margin for error, and cannot cope with the volume of traffic asked of them. I hate to quote Conor Faughnan, but these roads have no place on a modern road network.

The issue of driver education is separate. No amount of driver education will increase the safety of these roads.

mike65

Saruman wrote:

The big thing is to add slow lanes... You know where a section of hard shoulder becomes another lane for slower vehicles to move into and let faster ones by.
This is very obvious once you hit Cork.. there are a few of them there and its great.

I'm familiar with the ones in Cork and they all share something - they start too late and end too early. Luckily the worst of the lot is no longer used by me since the upgraded section of the N8 was opened south of Watergrasshill.

Mike.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote:

No, we must replace these roads, because they offer little to no margin for error, and cannot cope with the volume of traffic asked of them.

The margin for error would be much increased if people drove more slowly, it's that simple.

If we keep building & enlarging roads to 'cope with the volume of traffic' we'll destroy the country. The demand will increase to overfill the available capacity.

I didn't hear Conor Faughnan, but I guess he did not consider all of the alternatives as these would not be to the benefit of the AA or the motor car & building industries.

Is it not time we started thinking outside of the box? In what kind of country do we want to be living in 2020?

thejollyrodger

I agree that we must either replace or upgrade most of the road network in Ireland. It's medival and has too many twists turns, dips and shicanes etc. the like of which wouldnt be accepted in any other western european nation.

The future lies in better public transport and a better rail service but we cant ingore a creaking road network. More money please

murphaph

thejollyrodger wrote:

The future lies in better public transport and a better rail service but we cant ingore a creaking road network

True. Lots of very lethal roads in Ireland. Remember when a dangerous stretch of road is improved through straightening, widening, better signage and marking that they usually add footpaths and cycle lanes where possible. This improves safety for everyone using the road-not just bad drivers!!

seamus

cyclopath2001 wrote:

The margin for error would be much increased if people drove more slowly, it's that simple.

On paper. Lowering the speed limits won't solve the traffic problem, and its knock-on effect of dangerous overtaking.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote:

On paper. Lowering the speed limits won't solve the traffic problem, and its knock-on effect of dangerous overtaking.

I didn't say 'lower the speed limit', we know that does not work. Most drivers ignore the speed limits.

What I mean is 'make people drive more slowly'.

As for dangerous overtaking being caused by low speeds, that's no more true than saying that the roads are dangerous.

Dangerous overtaking is caused by indisciplined driving.

seamus

cyclopath2001 wrote:

What I mean is 'make people drive more slowly'.

Got any reasonable way of accomplishing this?

As for dangerous overtaking being caused by low speeds, that's no more true than saying that the roads are dangerous.
Dangerous overtaking is caused by indisciplined driving.

Yes and no. Poor overtaking for the most part is a symptom of poor driving education, but even with the best educated drivers in the world, people will still take risks, and make dangerous manouvers when faced with a long line of slow-moving traffic.

Our man in Havana

seamus wrote:

Yes and no. Poor overtaking for the most part is a symptom of poor driving education, but even with the best educated drivers in the world, people will still take risks, and make dangerous manouvers when faced with a long line of slow-moving traffic.

Would be better to compel slow moving vehicles to move into the side of the road to allow other traffic to pass. Some farmers think they own the road.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote:

Got any reasonable way of accomplishing this?
Yes and no. Poor overtaking for the most part is a symptom of poor driving education, but even with the best educated drivers in the world, people will still take risks, and make dangerous manouvers when faced with a long line of slow-moving traffic.

It's unlikely that any effective means of preventing people from exceeding the speed limit would be percieved as reasonable by those selfish people who put others at risk rather than exercise patience.

There are technologies available to control speeding, such as speed regulators, 'black boxes' & satellite tracking.