Bad Beats vs Bad Play

ionapaul

Mnay players get upset online and live at real or imagined bad beats. Personally, I don't dwell on any bad beats I suffer, but am haunted by my bad plays. Bad beats are just a part of poker we expect, while our bad play is something we recognise and try to control.

The reason I am thinking of this today is the manner in which I was knocked out of the double chance last night - had a sizable stack, playing my usual game, then did something very stupid and pushed all-in at the wrong time (went out in 10th) against the wrong player (Paddy O'Neill) with the wrong sized stack (tournament leader). If I had been ahead when I went all-in and he caught me on the river (as often happens), it would have been a wry smile and a 'that's poker' moment. I wouldn't have thought about it on the drive home. Instead, it was a 'WTF did I do that for, idiot' moment, and despite him saying 'that's poker', I know that it really was a 'that's shockingly bad play, Ionapaul' situation. It's not just frustrating but idiotic to spend hours playing a decent game to throw it away being an idiot late in a tournament - the same thing happened a few weeks ago against Norman in the Monday tournie, I went out 4th then and at the very least cost myself a couple of hundred €s.

Anyone else feel this way - take the bad beats with a smile but agonise over the bad plays? I should qualify the above by saying that even when I win with bad plays (through dumb luck or the other guy playing even worse), I tend to remember them long after any 50-50 calls or even the worst bad beats.

Definitely agree with you... I threw away a winning hand.... 'cos I didn't want to go all in in with it. This is tournament play and survival is paramount. I came in 4th last night with a whopping great...
...wait for it...


1600 in chips!!!

Clinging on by my cuticles

Samba

If you cannot recognise, analyze and take appropriate steps to ensure you do not repeat the same mistakes it will cost you chips.


I was a quite annoyed with a hand I played the other day, table of limpers and I am dealt 33 (about 5 limpers in all) I hit my 3 on a rainbow flop with no straight draw so I decide to slow play to milk the pot, come the river and many check check check the board had paired with 8's along with a runner runner flush draw, so I check 2 of the other players folded on the turn. Second last to act bets 2, last to act bets 6.


I should have flat called this but being a greedy little git I decided to re-raise, as soon as I clicked the re-raise I knew I was in a world of pain with a two pair that hit the house (but thought about that after the money I was going to make)

He put me all in for another 10 naturally I had to call and alas, he had the two pair on the flop and filled the boat on the river. Slap to the back of the head for me.



On another not3 I was delighted with myself I put down AA yesterday, raised 15 pre flop two callers, flop comes 3 hearts, I bet the flop, he thinks he calls, I bet the turn, no heart, he pushes all In, I think, I think..... and mucked it, he shows me A4s of hearts.........for the love of god.

I later took this eejits 200 stack out of his hands.

mewso

We all have to live with the bad beats and learn from our mistakes and as Samba says it's about not making the same mistake twice.
I have not featured in the money in the fitz in 4 months approx. but it's not down to stupid play. KK getting beaten by 55. Top 2 pair on flop beaten by top two pair on turn etc. It starts to get you down when it gets that repetitive but I have to believe that as long as it's not mistakes that cause elimination then I will score sooner rather than later.

Shortstack

I have to say I enjoyed the format of the double chance last night. Just a pity my eyes were not working as I made a move with AK and when I flipped them over the Ace had magically changed to a 4 ! Suffice to say I did not get lucky against 88 ! I did hit a 4 though !

Went on to lose a massive pot in the cash game afterwards to an equally bad mistake. And to think I drove 40 miles to play this bad !

careca

Shortstack wrote:

I have to say I enjoyed the format of the double chance last night. Just a pity my eyes were not working as I made a move with AK and when I flipped them over the Ace had magically changed to a 4 ! Suffice to say I did not get lucky against 88 ! I did hit a 4 though !

Went on to lose a massive pot in the cash game afterwards to an equally bad mistake. And to think I drove 40 miles to play this bad !

Is that why you are also known as luckyblind What option are most people taking in this game. All their chips at the start or the rebuy/topup option ?

ionapaul

Papa Hoff wrote:

Definitely agree with you... I threw away a winning hand.... 'cos I didn't want to go all in in with it. This is tournament play and survival is paramount. I came in 4th last night with a whopping great...
...wait for it...


1600 in chips!!!

Clinging on by my cuticles

Well, I have to admit that my style (if you want to call it that!) is to become more agressive and a tad looser towards the end of a tournament, particularly on the button or in the opening hands on the final table - as a result of my tight play early on I have never been chip leader or even second going into the final table, but equally rarely get knocked out of a tournament early* That is why bad plays late on really haunt me afterwards, just destroying my hard work early on.

*the boards online tournies don't count

Rodge

ionapaul wrote:

Well, I have to admit that my style (if you want to call it that!) is to become more agressive and a tad looser towards the end of a tournament, particularly on the button or in the opening hands on the final table - as a result of my tight play early on I have never been chip leader or even second going into the final table, but equally rarely get knocked out of a tournament early* That is why bad plays late on really haunt me afterwards, just destroying my hard work early on.

*the boards online tournies don't count

I agree 100%, I will play nothing but premium hands early doors and wont even contemplate calling raises with low PP's. When it gets shorthanded and the blinds are good and big then any two cards that look pretty when I'm on the button will be the subject of a good strong raise. Doesnt get called very often.

It really annoys me too when I go out because of my own over cockiness and bad play. Bad beats dont annoy me in the slightest because unless you have the nuts then theres always a chance of losing and if you're willing to put your money in then you are taking that chance.

Shortstack

careca wrote:

All their chips at the start or the rebuy/topup option ?

Most people seemed to rake their extra chips when they got low or busted the original 1500. I didn't see anyone take them at the beginning, I took them at the break along with a few others.
Personally I would only take them early if more than a couple of other people on my table took them. If everbody leaves them you are not at much of a disadvantage at this level. If my chipstack dropped too low I would get them then.

JuliusFranco

i'd generally take them at the start more or less, an extra 1500 is worth more earlier on. i tho tend to play better or at least have a better mindset for freezouts (ie no second chances so don't do anything stupid!)

the tuesday game is a great one tho, were there many runners last night?

JuliusFranco

there is nothing worse tho than going out of a tourney after one stupid play after hours of solid play

on the Sat PL HE/O tourney i managed to get down to 7 with a playable stack (. i'm in the small blind in the omaha round. Steve Davis is in the BB. The flop comes with 4s2s4d. I have a suited Qs ONLY. Thinking my rubbish draw is rubbish i just check with the intention of mucking asap. The Nugget raises the pot, the two limpers fold, and i started thinking! Somehow, after everything i've been told about omaha and paired boards and non nut draws I still convined myself to call. Turn spade, me all in, nuggets calls, (hardly believing his luck!) see ya later....
i met my girlfirend straight after in the pub, she said well done on getting that far.

If she only knew..

DapperGent

As far as bad beats go I don't really mind them at all, I doesn't really matter to me how far I was ahead at any point as long as my opponents play could be considered reasonable. What does drive me demented though is when someone makes a really really bad call and then gets lucky. Especially in tournaments.

One of the worst I remember is being in an online tournament on the bubble 2nd in chips with the only other two big stacks at my table. 3rd stack goes all in with middle set, I push all in over the top with top set big stack decides to call with a gutshot on the end. I think we all know what happened. This kind of thing does annoy me something awful.

The worst worst beat (and it wasn't even a beat) I can remember was at a live tournament with a great stack. I had only shown down great stuff nuts or big cards and all winners so I decided to get cheeky, raised preflop with Q8s got a call from the BB. Flop came King high, he checked to me I bet the pot, he mishears my bet and thinks it's half of what it was and calls, the dealer tells him the full amount he looks unhappy but sticks the rest in.

Two clubs on boards so I put him on a flush draw, turn is a blank. He checks I bet the pot, he calls. River is another blank he checks to me again. Either I'm being slowplayed here or he has a really marginal hand or he's chased a draw and missed, I decide he's marginal and pet the full pot on the river - at this stage I've put over 2/3 of chips in on this hand. If he calls me he's the guts of all in with maybe 2 BBs to spare.

He thinks for ages. And ages. And ages. Longest sweat I've ever had in a live game. Doesn't look at me once. Eventually calls with JJ in the pocket. I muck in pure amazement. I was utterly astonished. I was thinking K9, K10 or KJ or something.

I think he might have been slowplaying his montrous JJ preflop or something. Anyway that one really sticks out in my mind. An unusual bad beat in that never at one point in the hand was I ahead.