Some Advice please...

Velvet Vocals

A woman I work with came to me today to ask for some advice about Rock/Heavy metal. Her 13 year old daughter has just discovered Marilyn Manson and cradle of filth and is dressing all in black etc, etc... you know the score.
So while this woman is all up for allowing her daughter to express her self and seems to be quite cool, she is very against Marilyn Manson and cradle of filth... mainly because of the imagery they have. For example the daughter was on the web last night and was looking at pic on the cradle of filth web site of a guy with a cut throat covered in blood licking what looked like an organ of some kind.... while she's not saying that they should be doing that she just doesn't want her 13 year old little girl looking at it.
She said that she would have no problems with Metallica/Iron Maden/Gun 'n Roses.... bands that she her self grew up listening to.
But she knows that anything she recommends with be so un-cool she wont even get the words out before a teenage tantrum erupts
So, she asked me if I knew of any good bands the kid could get into that would be heavy enough for her to really like, be enough of a rebellion to satisfy her need to stand out but that don't have really strong imagery or violence.
I'M TOTALLY STUMPED! Ok, I've recommend a few home grown bands that I know personally that are small and she can go and see them in the TMBC or something... but is there anything else out there?? Teen-Friendly metal is what we're looking for here???

Ph3n0m

well I would be against Manon and COF simply because they're crap

But seriously - Teen-metal with no strong imagery or violence - that would take some doing since most bands nowadays believe its all to do with the image and not the music

Tantrums aside anything by old school bands like Metallica, Megadeth, etc - strong enough bands that never had to go overkill on the image or language?

Velvet Vocals

yea, that's what I said and apparently she's getting guitar lessons from a guy who's given her Justice for all to listen to. But she is trying to keep up with two girls from her school who are in to Manson and COF and when you're that age approval from your friends is so much more important then listening to good music. Its only when you get older that the imagery can be dropped for good tunes.
In saying that though when I was 13 I was listening to Metallica and Iron Maden and G N'R etc, etc and I liked them coz the music was great...
Do people really like the music produced by Manson and COF?? I mean... really, in all honesty?? Are they not just about the shock value? I have to say I kinda liked that version of Tainted love that Manson did a while ago, and I do think he's a very intelligent person (basing it on Bowling for colombine) but as far as the music goes...is it any good?

Ph3n0m

Saint Something wrote:

yea, that's what I said and apparently she's getting guitar lessons from a guy who's given her Justice for all to listen to. But she is trying to keep up with two girls from her school who are in to Manson and COF and when you're that age approval from your friends is so much more important then listening to good music. Its only when you get older that the imagery can be dropped for good tunes.
In saying that though when I was 13 I was listening to Metallica and Iron Maden and G N'R etc, etc and I liked them coz the music was great...
Do people really like the music produced by Manson and COF?? I mean... really, in all honesty?? Are they not just about the shock value? I have to say I kinda liked that version of Tainted love that Manson did a while ago, and I do think he's a very intelligent person (basing it on Bowling for colombine) but as far as the music goes...is it any good?

welcome to the longest debate in the world

I dont think COF and Manson - musically are not very good, in fact Manson is not a musician he is a frontman, a production, a showman - and IMO not a very good one. As for COF - to me, they are the epitome of dire music matched alongside with a pathetic attempt at shocking imagery.

Plenty of other bands that are out there, who are far superior in music and lyrics and who have better frontmen then Manson and Dani Filth - and they dont need the "extreme imagery" to get them noticed.

Velvet Vocals

yea, I know what you mean about the debate, I've started here in work too and it's getting out of hand! I totally agree with you about the imagery thing, I mean I was shocked by the discription of that picture... I know I wouldn't like to see something like that, let alone have a 13 year old girl looking at it... I mean come on.... no one can tell me that people arn't affected by seeing stuff like this! http://cof.rockmetal.art.pl/images/galeria/1.jpg
Which brings me back to the woman I work with, she has put a ban on the daughter looking at anything to do with either Manson or COF on the web and wont allow her to buy the albums or anything... which I think is going to make them more attactive to be honest. But she can't win really can she?

Karl Hungus

Unfortunatly, the more this woman wants to restrict her daughter, the more the daughter will want to go against her. Honestly, the kid is 13, what do you expect?

But my best advice is to this woman is to get a little cop on, and understand that there's far, far worse things for her daughter to be into. She should be damn glad that the kid's not out taking E's and sniffing glue with Anto and Deco, before going off joyriding and getting a "deadly buzz" from hassling old ladies.

I don't see how an obviously fake image of someone slitting their own throat is going to have any detrimental effect to anyone who has any modicum of sense in their brain. So be happy that all the kid is doing is grossing out her over-reactionary mother with some silly pictures, when she could just as easily be another teen pregnancy statistic herion addict out robbing cans of Dutch Gold. Honestly, you see as much gore in 12 rated films these days.

It wasn't me!

There are plenty of good bands, heavy bands out there without that stupid stereotypical imagery. Think Children of Bodom or Opeth for starters. Personally it's just not something I go for. It's a shameless publicity thing and it gives a bad name to metal by bringing talentless artists like that into the public eye, and thus giving them an impression of metal, when better bands without the stupidity attached just don't get the credit they deserve. That said, I do throw on the odd Slayer record from time to time.

rootofallevil

I have to admit first off I'm a Cradle of Filth fan. Also I think Marilyn Manson is very good at what he does, which is provide catchy metal with imposing imagery for young teenagers. This extreme imagery is by no means intended to be imitated and any intelligent or not-already disturbed person will cop to this. It must actually be insulting for this kid to not be trusted enough to know not to go out and disect the neighbours just because she listened to marilyn manson. What Karl Hungus said is true and also I'd be more worried about her attitude in general than her taste in music. Going back to my other point, if the girl is mentally stable and has a good bunch of friends then her music choices are not an issue

John

I don't see Manson or COF having an adverse effect on the girl. She'll back off herself if she finds it too much. You have to give kids some credit, most of them aren't stupid. And the fact that COF are so over the top I think negates any shock that they might have.

And personally, I think Antichrist Superstar is a damn fine record. It works perfectly well without any theatrics.

honru

She'll more than likely grow out of those bands and move onto something else tbh, just stages teenagers go through these days.

John

Not necessarily, I've been listening to Manson for eight years. Granted I've found a lot of music that's better but I still go back to those cd's of yore.

honru

Well she's hardly going to listen to Manson and Cradle of Filth to death for the rest of her life. Perhaps in a year or two a new band may take their place, be it Metallica or Guns 'N' Roses, and stuff like that Dani Filth picture will be erradicated from memory. But hey, I dunno, I'm just looking at the likely possibilities. I knew I went through all those stages when I was a pup.

Karl Hungus

I've been listening to CoF since about '97, and I still stick on Vempire the odd time. Damn that album was a feirce slice of full-blooded metal! Of course, they're not even the same band now (Quite literally, Dani is the only original member left) and I'd rather kick the speakers in than listen to their new stuff. It's like comparing St. Anger to Master of Puppets. They certainly made a decent few albums in their day.

So I wouldn't be as quick to brush anything off as a phase.

honru

I'm not implying that everyone grows out of Manson or Cradle of Filth at some stage in the lives (heck, I still listen to Manson myself). I'm speaking in the context of a just-turned-teenager here. She is trying to fit in with her friends by listening to the bands in question, so I can't imagine this being anything more than a phase.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Tool

not as heavy metal as the other two.. but she'll be able to lord her musical superiority over all her teen-goth friends.

Töpher

Mordeth wrote:

Tool

not as heavy metal as the other two.. but she'll be able to lord her musical superiority over all her teen-goth friends.

This man speaketh the truth.

Also, get her to go for some Meshuggah, brutally heavy, and musically fantastic. COF will sound like new-born lambs after that, and she can educate her friends in the ways of good music.

smackbunnybaby

hold it up a second.
there is no point in recommending opeth or meshuggah or tool etc.these bands are far more technical than mm and cof.it takes a while to understand the music.
the girl is 13 - she listens to metal - so she will start with the easy to listen ones, like one of the other posters said.
music is a progression - you dont grow out of it but you do move on to other types.
i grew up with mm and cof and have massive respect for them, but you realise there is more out there than that.
id say just leave her be, as long as attitude doesnt change.
then maybe one day out of the blue buy her lateralus.....and see what happens.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Saint Something wrote:

But she is trying to keep up with two girls from her school who are in to Manson and COF

So she obviously doesn't want to go cutting her throat (which those images MAKE you do of course) just keeping up with friends as you say. This mother is definitely over reacting, needs to open her mind a bit.

Saint Something wrote:

and when you're that age approval from your friends is so much more important then listening to good music.

No it's not, I was thirteen and I listened to stuff I liked. Trying to introduce bands probably won't work either. Let the child find her own music.

Oral Slang

This whole thing reminds me of a similar around 15 years ago!
My brother was a major metal fan & I was just getting into it. My mam is an aging hippy and was cool with whatever we were into..
Anyway, this local woman asked my mam for advice because her son was into metal & she was afraid he was going to be into devil worshipping...
Anyway, my mam got my brother to dig out a cd of some metal band that were big into religion - like POD of this day, trying to show her that metal bands weren't evil things!
Anyway, she went away happy with her copy of this album for her son.. I think after a year or two he turned into a scumbag..
My brother is more into industrial & goth now & I'm still big into metal..
Just proves if you leave your kids find their own way, they're more likely to settle down easier & stop trying to rebel all the time..

curtains

Not a metal band but; Joy Division; you'd be surprised.

MrJoeSoap

curtains wrote:

Not a metal band but; Joy Division; you'd be surprised.

I'd be very surprised if a 13 year old girl who listens to Cradle of Filth or Marilyn Manson found any appeal in Joy Division, she's obvioulsy way into her image more than her music.