[Guardian leader]Good summary of Sinn Féin's current woes

MT

IMO Guardian leaders are usually po-faced with a tendency to only find resonance amongst the rather esoteric views of the papers readership. This one, however, seems to speak to a wider audience. I think it manages to convey in fairly frank terms just how much of a hole Sinn Féin have dug for themselves. On top of this, I feel such a searching editorial will carry more weight as the paper has traditionally been sympathetic to the party's cause. Anyway, here it is.




Divide and rule

Leader
Monday March 7, 2005
The Guardian

Though parties other than Sinn Féin also lay claim to his legacy, it is now 100 years since Arthur Griffith founded the movement for an independent Ireland. Not surprisingly, Sinn Féin planned its March 2005 conference as a celebration of this notable anniversary. And indeed, only a few months ago, the party had seemed on track to achieve something remarkable at the start of its second century as well: a share of power in Northern Ireland beckoned and perhaps even a place in a coalition government in the Irish Republic, too. In the event, both those goals now seem more distant that at any time in recent years.

The reasons for this spectacular change in the political situation are well known - the IRA's assumed role in the Northern Bank robbery, the exposure of the IRA money-laundering operation in the south and, in particular, the killing of Robert McCartney by a republican gang that intimidated bystanders and relatives from telling the police what they knew. As if that were not enough, there were also allegations in a new book last week that Gerry Adams personally intervened on behalf of the IRA to prevent a solution to the 1981 hunger strike, allowing six more prisoners to die. All in all, it was hard to see how things could get much worse for Sinn Féin as it gathered in Dublin. In fact it was a fair bet that the most untroubled centenary celebrations in Ireland this weekend were those in Belfast marking the 1905 foundation of the Ulster Unionist Council.

The seriousness of the challenge facing Sinn Féin has been sharply underlined by a succession of opinion polls in the Republic in the last two weeks. All of these show a closing of the ranks by the voters against the republicans in their present guise. While Sinn Féin's own electoral support level is now flatlining at around 9%, the people of the south of Ireland have hardened their views on many other issues concerning the party. The gradual thaw in popular attitudes since the peace process in the north got under way a decade ago has suddenly gone cold again. Large majorities now believe not just that the IRA was responsible for the Northern Bank robbery, but also that Bertie Ahern's Fianna Fail should not form a coalition with Sinn Féin after the next Irish general election. And a similar majority are adamant on possibly the key underlining issue in Dublin this weekend - that Sinn Féin should split from the IRA.

In the event, therefore, Sinn Féin's Ard Fheis was turned from a celebration into a very desperate damage limitation exercise. Mr Adams and his party spent much of the weekend on the defensive. In some respects this exercise was successfully carried out. Mr Adams's presidential address on Saturday did not duck the danger from the McCartney case, which he acknowledged as a huge threat. That evening he even pulled off a PR coup by persuading some of the McCartney sisters to attend the conference as part of their campaign to identify their brother's killers. It was the sort of theatrical touch - and on primetime Irish TV too - with which US presidents like to enliven the state of the union speech, and the photos of Mr Adams with the McCartneys will be useful to the republicans when they travel to America for the annual St Patrick's Day rituals.

Yet if republicans are tempted to think that the worst is now over, they are surely deceiving themselves. The most probable effect of the recent events is not that Sinn Féin is finished. It is that Sinn Féin is stuck. That does not mean that they should be treated as pariahs. Attempts to rule out discussions with Sinn Féin are misplaced. But it does mean that such discussions will not be worth much while the republicans remain equivocal about violence and respect for the law. Future movement in the peace process requires the kind of decisive breach between Sinn Féin and the IRA that the voters of the south - to say nothing of the voters of the north - rightly want to see. Mr Adams seems to recognise what the problem is. Now he has to show that he understands the solution.


I'll post further comment latter as I'm pushed for time at the moment.

true

Interesting article well written, but nothing new, just what everyone knew already.
I wonder does the average Sinn Fein / IRA member know it, but not admit it. It is sometimes difficult to guess how much of their reasoning is due to ignorance , stupidity or political indoctrination ?

AmenToThat

true wrote:

I wonder does the average Sinn Fein / IRA member know it, but not admit it. It is sometimes difficult to guess how much of their reasoning is due to ignorance , stupidity or political indoctrination ?

So you believe that the people with republican leanings on this board are either
A. ignorant
B. stupid
C. have been 'politically indoctrinated'

Seems to be alot of this kind of talk on the boards lately where personal attacks on people are posted instead of discussing the topic at hand.
Its very immature and usually just ends up sufficating the thread.

BTW why do you bother debating with those of us of a republican leaning if you believe we are all either ignorant, stupid or indoctrinated?

Villain

true wrote:

Interesting article well written, but nothing new, just what everyone knew already.
I wonder does the average Sinn Fein / IRA member know it, but not admit it. It is sometimes difficult to guess how much of their reasoning is due to ignorance , stupidity or political indoctrination ?

Attack the post's not the posters.

LoL
Normally you would be right there irish1 but he/she didnt mention any poster in particular which is what the rules specify nor did he specify which of those three conditions he thinks republicans suffer from.

Look at it this way, a lot of non republicans just cant understand , the cheers at Sinn Féin meetings for what they see as killers who killed without a mandate.
Thats not surprising as if you did a poll in the morning asking the public what they thought of the IRA campaign and do you think they should go back to it, you know the answer you would get.

There is a widespread view that the IRA is involved in criminality and its a nettle Sinn Féin have to grasp and tackle or else they will continue to be hammered by it when the publics perception is that theres no clear distinction between Sinn Féin and the IRA.

If there was a clear distinction in the publics eyes, then 69% of them would nt be saying they shouldnt be in government here.

As regards the article, its a good read.

Sleepy

AmenToThat - In large part I believe Sinn fein have brought the accusations of their supporter being ignorant or indoctrinated on themselves. The notorious example of the old lady who doesn't give a damn what they do up north and will vote for anyone if they get her pavement fixed is very much in the minds of many of us. To my mind, anyone voting in this sense is voting ignorantly. Sinn Fein very cynically targeted these types of people with their campaigns against the bin tax (which to any reasonable person were a fair tax to levy on Dubliners given that the rest of the country had paid for waste collection for years). Targeting this type of voter, has in my opinion justifiably gained Sinn Fein a reputation for having ignorant supporters.

In relation to the charge of people being "indoctrinated" into the party, again, Sinn Fein's PR machine has largely brought this upon themselves through their beatification of Bobby Sands and propoganda-like literature. When people can refuse to condemn the murder of a guard, condone the "disappearing" of mother's of ten and use any distraction at hand to avoid answering a hard question I for one find it hard to believe that they're actually thinking about the issues at hand instead of just spouting party rhetoric.

Sure, there have to be a few intelligent Sinn Fein supporters, I (and a large number of others in this country) just find it very difficult to accept that anyone that has thought about it could actually agree with the IRA's actions.

AmenToThat

Earthman wrote:

LoL

Look at it this way, a lot of non republicans just cant understand , the cheers at Sinn Féin meetings for what they see as killers who killed without a mandate.

So when you dont understand something you label it as stupid and ignorant?

Not a very enlightened attitude in my opinion.

AmenToThat

Sleepy wrote:

AmenToThat - In large part I believe Sinn fein have brought the accusations of their supporter being ignorant or indoctrinated on themselves. The notorious example of the old lady who doesn't give a damn what they do up north and will vote for anyone if they get her pavement fixed is very much in the minds of many of us. To my mind, anyone voting in this sense is voting ignorantly.

Ill think you will find that in general most people in Ireland vote according to issues that effect them first and the general population second.
I know many who vote for FF or Labour for example simply because 'thier family has always voted for FF or Labour'.

To say that the only issues that SF campaign on are those of the 'northern question' says less about the ignorance or otherwise of your average SF voter and more about you own in my opinion.

Sleepy

AmenToThat - I'd regard anyone voting for someone because their family always had as just as ignorant.

A parties policies must be considered in their entirety. Sure, I can probably admit that I'd agree with a few of Sinn Fein's stated policies but at the same time, I neither see them as being able to deliver them nor as a group of people I could morally be associated with in any fashion. (I could say the exact same about Fianna Fail but then I'd be WAY off-topic). One of Sinn Fein's aims (and arguably their main policy) is a united Ireland, something I personally don't want. They also approve of (and imho are more than likely part of) the "armed struggle", again something I can't stomach. And I can't understand how anyone else can.

AmenToThat

Sleepy wrote:

again something I can't stomach. And I can't understand how anyone else can.

Which is fair enough but my point is that because you cant understand it you deem it to be based on ignorance or stupidity which does nothing to actually move on the process.

true

AmenToThat wrote:

Which is fair enough but my point is that because you cant understand it you deem it to be based on ignorance or stupidity which does nothing to actually move on the process.

I did not say that because "I do not understand the Northern situation I deem it to be based on ignorance or stupidity." What I said was "It is sometimes difficult to guess how much of their reasoning is due to ignorance , stupidity or political indoctrination ? "

I know a bit about the Northern troubles, having close friends there on both sides of the religous divide and having been up there hundreds if not thousands of times since the sixties. Others ,I am sure, may know more, but I know a bit. I do not categorise all Sinn Fein supporters as ignorant, stupid or politically indoctrinated , but surely this one of these factors may be a contributing reason behind some of their supporters allegiance . The leadership of Sinn Fein are anything but stupid, I will hand them that. However, there is a lot of republican propaganda about on republican websites, publications etc. Some of us (in Ireland ) sometimes think some Noraid supporters are often "stupid, ignorant or brainwashed" about the realities of N. Ireland.

Anyway, apologies if I offended someone. Everyone has the right to speak, everyone has the right to life.

AmenToThat

You refered to 'your average SF IRA member'.
What way would you interpret this if it was applied to a specific grouping or people?