Goldfish rights

Mikros

Saw this the other day. Apparently in the UK goldfish will fall under animal protection laws thanks to new legislation being planned.

the humble goldfish is to be afforded new rights that could leave people who fail to cater for their pet fish's needs - including changing their water regularly - facing prosecution.

I would be interested in hearing other people's opinion of this and whether they think its a step too far. Can fish suffer? If so, why is fishing still ok then? Personally, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. People are just ascribing human feelings to a fish.

(full article here )

Ro: maaan!

Mikros wrote:

why is fishing still ok then?

Different context. Though I think fishing and all animal killing should be illeagal. This is a good thing.

Mikros

Ro: maaan! wrote:

Different context.

I'm not too sure I get you. How is it a different context?

If you afford protection to goldfish in a bowl you must be making the assumption that they can suffer distress from cruelty. Then how is it not cruel to hook a fish through its mouth and pull it out of its natural enviroment? Surely that must cause as much, if not more suffering than being kept in a poor enviroment.

Berger

Ro: maaan! wrote:

Different context. Though I think fishing and all animal killing should be illeagal. This is a good thing.

What are we supposed to eat? What will all the cattle/sheep/pig etc. farmers do? You're talking crazy talk.

The Corinthian

Ro: maaan! wrote:

Different context. Though I think fishing and all animal killing should be illeagal. This is a good thing.

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

Ro: maaan!

The Corinthian wrote:

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

Heh.


What I mean by different context is that fishing is killing for a reason. Namely food. I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just assuming this is how *they* view it. I'd rather no animals/whatever were killed, but if some have to be, I'd prefer if it were for food. The thought of any animal having to live in bad conditions or being mistreated is not one I like. And no, I don't give a sh|t if you say it can't feel it.

Ro: maaan!

Berger wrote:

What are we supposed to eat? What will all the cattle/sheep/pig etc. farmers do? You're talking crazy talk.

Well we could eat anything really, other than meat. Cattle too, I assume. Not sure, but I assume most animals that are used on farms can and do eat things that are not meat. And what happens in the wild is none of our concern...

Shabadu

the humble goldfish is to be afforded new rights that could leave people who fail to cater for their pet fish's needs - including changing their water regularly - facing prosecution.

Imagine all the 6 yr olds that are facing jail-time...

I do believe in the ethical treatment of all animals, but come on.
I can't imagine the NSPCA storming houses: "Open up- surprise goldfish inspection."

The Sweeper

/me shrugs

I think you should teach children respect for living things from an early age. The goldfish-suffocating bug-stomping beetle-boxing little ba$tards turn into the bird-slingshotters and the cat-airgunners.

Serial killers regularly start out torturing animals...

Shabadu

Minesajackdaniels wrote:

/me shrugs

I think you should teach children respect for living things from an early age. The goldfish-suffocating bug-stomping beetle-boxing little ba$tards turn into the bird-singshotters and the cat-airgunners.

Serial killers regularly start out torturing animals...

Ar you're right. But sometimes it's innocent silliness. My Aunt caught her 6 yr old son stirring the goldfish bowl with a wooden spoon one morning, they were just spinning around floating on the top of the water. He said he was trying to get them to swim faster.
(He's actually really into fishing now- mebbe he is sadistic...)

herobear

The Corinthian wrote:

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

if you took that to heart then you must think cannibalism is ok, people are made out of meat to ye know

The Corinthian

herobear wrote:

if you took that to heart then you must think cannibalism is ok, people are made out of meat to ye know

And if I was an adolescent taking the literal meaning of that and attempting to cobble some argument from it, I suppose I would think that.

However, the comment was humorous in nature, however it is designed to remind us that we are omnivores by nature. That means that we are designed to eat both plants and animals.

Additionally they taste nice. Veal stuffed with foie gras is a particular favourite of mine.

Stark

Next they'll be having protection laws for earthworms.

Ro: maaan!

Jr.Shabadu wrote:

6 yr old

For anything serious to happen to a six year old, they'd have to do some pretty sick things. Anyway what kind of an argument is that? If a six year old can do it it's not wrong/shouldn't be illegal? Not the best policy really. If a six year old did something to harm a cat or dog the parents would (in most cases) tell them it was wrong and the child wouldn't do it again. Point really is that people should start seeing it as wrong.

Ro: maaan!

Stark wrote:

Next they'll be having protection laws for earthworms.

Hope so.

beer enigma

The Corinthian wrote:

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

I personally found that very funny - good inject of humour Corinthian

Mikros wrote:

If you afford protection to goldfish in a bowl you must be making the assumption that they can suffer distress from cruelty. Then how is it not cruel to hook a fish through its mouth and pull it out of its natural enviroment? Surely that must cause as much, if not more suffering than being kept in a poor enviroment.

I'm a fisherman but am yet to be convinced that I'm causing more cruelty than a guy keeping a rabbit in a hutch or a hamster in a cage.....BUT, I do hear your argument Mikros.

Goldfish in a clean well fed environment can in fact way outlive their natural counterparts.......now where was that castle again

simu

Load of nonsense tbh but Irish tourism will benefit from all the goldfish torturers coming over here to practise their craft. Picture it: "Ireland! A crock of goldfish at the end of each rainbow!"

Shabadu

Ro: maaan! wrote:

For anything serious to happen to a six year old, they'd have to do some pretty sick things. Anyway what kind of an argument is that? If a six year old can do it it's not wrong/shouldn't be illegal? Not the best policy really. If a six year old did something to harm a cat or dog the parents would (in most cases) tell them it was wrong and the child wouldn't do it again. Point really is that people should start seeing it as wrong.

Mebbe we should seek protection for the bee in your bonnet?

1) It was a humourous comment, I don't think any 6 yr olds are going to be jailed for fish cruelty.

2)It wasn't an arguement, it was a joke.

3)I was trying to say that most goldfish abuse is probably caused by 6 yr olds, as a parent, I believe that it is the parents right AND obligation to discipline their child if they display cruel behaviour.

4) IMO most people do see cruel behaviour as wrong.

5) Calm down.

pwd

It's ok to eat fish because they don't have any feelings. But not to torture them. That is weird.
It would be more to the point if they extended animal protection rights to the travellers' horses and dogs.

Shabadu

pwd wrote:

It's ok to eat fish because they don't have any feelings.

That's a fallacy. They do feel stress and pain but unfortunatly they're delicious and crucial to our evolution and survival. Seriously, oily fish.

Read 'Trawler' by Redmond O' Hanlon.

or this:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:jAPvyOjOjLwJ:www.thepaleodiet.com/articles/Encephalization%2520Final%2520PDF.pdf+human+evolution+oily+fish&hl=en&client=safari

It's hard going but v. informative.

pwd

sorry, I was quoting nirvana lyrics, which amused me for some reason.

DaBreno

The Corinthian wrote:

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

If God wanted us to eat meat, he would have given us stomachs.

Shabadu

pwd wrote:

sorry, I was quoting nirvana lyrics, which amused me for some reason.

Apologies, I wasn't paying attention. There was something in the way
(!)

Que Tumbleweed. Shudder...

Personally I think its going way too far. Whats next? Will we get fined because we stood on a spider while walking?

Kingsize

i'd say thats aimed at petshops a lot of whom quite frankly treat their animals like ****.There are some shops around town that are like animal auschwitz, disgusting really.
afaik the whole 3 second memory thing is bollox too
goldfish can also recognise people/signals & can be "trained" to a degree.

Dyr

So what about people who (i presume) feed goldfish to their other fish etc?

Dyr

Kingsize wrote:

i'd say thats aimed at petshops a lot of whom quite frankly treat their animals like ****.There are some shops around town that are like animal auschwitz, disgusting really.

Which shops? name names! blow whistles!!

Kingsize

DONT KNOW THE NAMES THERS A SHOP ON TALBOT ST - NOT NICE AT ALL
THERES ALSO A SHOP IN FINGLAS WHERE FISHTANKS CONTAIN JUST AS MANY DEAD ONES AS LIVE...
i dont like the way certain shops species mix their amphibians either but its probably not as bad when you consider the life expectancy of animals while they are in the shops.

aoplogies i had caps lock on btw

Shabadu

Bambi wrote:

So what about people who (i presume) feed goldfish to their other fish etc?

Good point, also what about people who feed mice to their snakes? It's got to be v.hard to regulate what constitutes cruelty.

Kingsize

think back to the veal crate debate a few years ago & i think you'll see where the cruelty arguement fits in.nowadays veal calves are transported in relative luxury on ther way to the slaughterhouse.
some fish are bred as "feeder fish" im sure its the same with mice,
I think that cruelty is prevalent in the pet trade & is passed on due to bad advice .at the end of the day the guy in the pet shop just wants to sell the animal he doesnt care if what he tells the buyer is bollix & quite often hes only passing on bad advice that hes been given.

skywalker

The Corinthian wrote:

If God hadn't wanted us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of food.

funniest thing ive read this morning. kudos.