why are people here buying used 9800s?

lomb

weve had 2 that have failed within 9 months. surely a 9800 without warranty is worth less than 50 euros? they are grossly under cooled and run very hot.
the mind boggles :rolleyes:

RicardoSmith

lomb wrote:

weve had 2 that have failed within 9 months. surely a 9800 without warranty is worth less than 50 euros? they are grossly under cooled and run very hot.
the mind boggles :rolleyes:

They are not known as a very hot card, or to have lots of heat failures. You can get passively cooled ones and run them with an Artic Cooler. Maybe its your systems that are undercooled not the 9800's...? Whats your system temps?

lomb

51 degrees max, the old athlon xp also runs hot, the case inside is 24 or 25 max. has a case fan too.
the latest one, the fan bearings have failed after less than 6 months no doubt because of the heat and tiny fan. they really do run hot though. i know a 380 watt good brand psu has trouble supplying it on a dedicated line.
uses ALOT of power and the heatsink is very very hot when running. the heatsink is way to small for it.
can put on an artic cooler but could destroy the card in the process, many people have ruined them putting one of these on.

Ciaran500

You would have to be fairly inept (no offence) to mess up the install of the artic cooler. They are very easy to install.

RicardoSmith

lomb wrote:

51 degrees max, the old athlon xp also runs hot, the case inside is 24 or 25 max. has a case fan too.
the latest one, the fan bearings have failed after less than 6 months no doubt because of the heat and tiny fan. they really do run hot though. i know a 380 watt good brand psu has trouble supplying it on a dedicated line.
uses ALOT of power and the heatsink is very very hot when running. the heatsink is way to small for it.
can put on an artic cooler but could destroy the card in the process, many people have ruined them putting one of these on.

Theres people running these on shuttles and Dells with 200w PSU and no problems. You must have just got two bad cards. A 380w should have no problem unless its supplying a poor line. Its not in a very dusty enviroment is it? Do you have a surge protector on it?

Creamy Goodness

i have a 9800pro here and it's doing fine, ohh and it's passively cooled too thanks to the zalman heat pipe.

fine card, and definlately worth more than 50 euros

lomb

RicardoSmith wrote:

Theres people running these on shuttles and Dells with 200w PSU and no problems. You must have just got two bad cards. A 380w should have no problem unless its supplying a poor line. Its not in a very dusty enviroment is it? Do you have a surge protector on it?

no surge protection, not too dusty but the fan blows any dust into the heatsink so some obviously goes into the bearings.

Azza

I believe your just unlucky with your cards. The 9800pro has got an excellent reputation.

leeroybrown

I have a second hand 9800 I bought on boards and it's working perfectly.

The only failed 9800's I know of personally were caused by owner inflicted damage.

unkel

The 9800 pro could be a winning contestant for the best graphics card ever award

I picked up one for €100 last night. Have it running atm without a fan and overclocked to a 9800XT

Overclocked, its performance is better than a current generation €200 6600GT

Value for money, or wha? :eek: :eek:

Khannie

I burned my index finger on the stock heatsink. Nasty burn. Didn't heal for weeks. Those puppies run pretty hot.

Unkel, you've /no/ fan at all? passively cooled with the stock heatsink at xt speeds? And no artifacts? stable?

LOL@number of questions, but I'm a bit shocked.

lomb

Khannie wrote:

I burned my index finger on the stock heatsink. Nasty burn. Didn't heal for weeks. Those puppies run pretty hot.

Unkel, you've /no/ fan at all? passively cooled with the stock heatsink at xt speeds? And no artifacts? stable?

LOL@number of questions, but I'm a bit shocked.

at least someone knows what i am talking about, the rest probably dont even own 9800s, they do run INCREDIBLY hot, and use ALOT of power

lomb

unkel wrote:

The 9800 pro could be a winning contestant for the best graphics card ever award

I picked up one for €100 last night. Have it running atm without a fan and overclocked to a 9800XT

Overclocked, its performance is better than a current generation €200 6600GT

Value for money, or wha? :eek: :eek:

it wont b good value if it stops working after a week. :eek: :eek:

lomb

RicardoSmith wrote:

Theres people running these on shuttles and Dells with 200w PSU and no problems. You must have just got two bad cards. A 380w should have no problem unless its supplying a poor line. Its not in a very dusty enviroment is it? Do you have a surge protector on it?

not a prayer of it im afraid a fortron 250watter starts going NUTS when a radeon in plugged in it fan speeds way up with HUGH heat from the back of the exaust, in addition to artifacts on the screen, and jerking of the image under graphic intensive applications. after 20 minutes even just web browsing the powersupply shuts down.

RicardoSmith

Khannie wrote:

I burned my index finger on the stock heatsink. Nasty burn. Didn't heal for weeks. Those puppies run pretty hot....

What do think a heatsink does? It should be hot if its doing its job drawing heat from the GPU. :rolleyes: If its cool its NOT working!!!!

lomb wrote:

not a prayer of it im afraid a fortron 250watter starts going NUTS when a radeon in plugged in it fan speeds way up with HUGH heat from the back of the exaust, in addition to artifacts on the screen, and jerking of the image under graphic intensive applications. after 20 minutes even just web browsing the powersupply shuts down.

Well you not praying to the right people. I had it running on a 200w PC powersupply in the past. No problem. Dell sell it in hundreds of systems with 200 PSU's. The SFF forums have plenty of people running 9800's in their SFF PCs.

What your describing is simply that theres a problem in your system. Claiming that all 9800's have the same problem is bit of a leap of imagination in fairness.

lomb

please provide me a link for a dell with a 200watt psu and a 9800 pro. ati themselves say a minimum of 300watt.

the card and its heatsink run at 70-85 degrees, if u dont think thats hot well......there is no built in shutdown for overheating either.
i wouldnt buy a used one...............

http://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?t=10622

http://www.overclock.net/showthread.php?t=15127

RicardoSmith

Sigh...

Find me a SFF with a 300w PSU. They are usually 250 or less. Yet they can run high power GFX cards no problem. Dell use a range of PSU's all with different PSU's. If you order a Dell with a high powered gfx card you sometimes get a 200/250 or 305w PSU. If you look through the Dell Talk forums you find loads of people with under 300w running 9800s no problem. The 9800 is pretty old now. I don't think Dell sell it anymore.

Your problem could a be a lot of things. Maybe you a fault in your system. Maybe your PSU isn't delivering a steady 5v on the 5v rail. Maybe you've too many other things in the PC. It all effects the power.

If you think the 9800 needs a lot of power check out the newer NVidia cards!!! http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

I reckon that calculator over estimates though, as it reckons I need a 400w PSU in my Dell, and I only have 250w and it runs fine.

Capt'n Midnight

Upgrading and Repairing PC's 11th edition August 1999
Page 311 "There is also a new AGP Pro Specifictation that defines a slightly longer slot with additional power pins at each end to driver bigger and faster AGP cards which consume more thatn 25 watts of power, up to a maximum of 110 watts."
So high power graphics cards aren't something new
IIRC silicon junctions can take up to 160 degrees C and as one quote said "you can boil water on a heatsink" - still it would be nice if the HW manufacturers spend a few more cent on them by doing two small things. - including a recomended surface temperature and/or putting those little strips that change colour on the heatsink so you could tell when setting up a system if you are in a safe zone or near the limits.

Ricardo - the powers on that site were the peak power, not the average, since not all devices would be using peak power (eg: HDD's comming off standby) at the same time you can get away something lower than the total.

unkel

RicardoSmith is right - many low wattage Dells with 9800 pro's around and even SFF's that would have had heat issues even without a 9800 pro

My PSU is a Zalman 400W (which in fact has a max power of 450W)

RicardoSmith

Capt'n Midnight wrote:

....
Ricardo - the powers on that site were the peak power, not the average, since not all devices would be using peak power (eg: HDD's comming off standby) at the same time you can get away something lower than the total.

...150W lower...

Capt'n Midnight

RicardoSmith wrote:

...150W lower...

cool.

SpooN_9k

im running a 9800pro of a dell psu as we speak (waiting for my new case and PSU to arrive)

i might even try to run my new x800XT of this psu but im not so sure about that as il probably end up setting my house on fire when it explodes :eek:

Khannie

RicardoSmith wrote:

What do think a heatsink does? It should be hot if its doing its job drawing heat from the GPU. :rolleyes: If its cool its NOT working!!!!

Eh, no need for the sarcasm. My point was that it was running /very/ hot (and therefore disappating a lot of power). I can happily touch the heatsink of my (overclocked) CPU without burning myself. Yes, it has a larger heatsink, but the thetaja (thermal resistance from junction to air) difference associated with the larger heatsink isn't as great as you'd think. Also, the GPU core is quite small. Smaller than the average male's thumbnail in surface area on the top, so for it to be producing that much heat means it's using a /lot/ of power.

At the time, the GPU wasn't even under strain.

Winning Hand

My 9800pro failed after 16 months in my dell 8300, found a similiar problem on the dell forums and when I emailed dell they recommended that my next card be a nVidia, which I was gonna buy anyway but I wonder if there is any inherent issues with Dell and Ati?

RicardoSmith

Winning Hand wrote:

My 9800pro failed after 16 months in my dell 8300, found a similiar problem on the dell forums and when I emailed dell they recommended that my next card be a nVidia, which I was gonna buy anyway but I wonder if there is any inherent issues with Dell and Ati?

They had a problem with the 6600GT's in some models too. Its just the usual conflict between new hardware. Give it a few months and theres a bios fix or driver patch for these things.

Yes well Dell support is known talking a lot of old cobblers.

RicardoSmith

Khannie wrote:

Eh, no need for the sarcasm. My point was that it was running /very/ hot (and therefore disappating a lot of power). I can happily touch the heatsink of my (overclocked) CPU without burning myself. Yes, it has a larger heatsink, but the thetaja (thermal resistance from junction to air) difference associated with the larger heatsink isn't as great as you'd think. Also, the GPU core is quite small. Smaller than the average male's thumbnail in surface area on the top, so for it to be producing that much heat means it's using a /lot/ of power.

At the time, the GPU wasn't even under strain.

The point is its meant to run hot. Thats NOT a problem.

Creamy Goodness

one of my mates in england has a shuttle with a 240w psu and he's running a asus x800 in it, now if that runs fine then a 9800pro will run fine

nl

I run a x800 pro overclocked with a 3Ghz p4 on a 250 watt dell power supply

Khannie

RicardoSmith wrote:

The point is its meant to run hot. Thats NOT a problem.

I didn't say it was. ATI have enough cop on not to put out a part that's going to fail in its droves from overheating.

All I said was that lots of heat = lots of power.

lomb

nl wrote:

I run a x800 pro overclocked with a 3Ghz p4 on a 250 watt dell power supply

not for long u wont, b4 the power supply explodes.

lomb

Khannie wrote:

I didn't say it was. ATI have enough cop on not to put out a part that's going to fail in its droves from overheating.

All I said was that lots of heat = lots of power.

ati did it this way as if they were to add a proper heatsink, it would indeed take 2 slots up so they balanced a wide market appeal against failures and warranty repairs. i dont think they got the balance right personally, anyway ati retail cards are warranted for 3 years so best to buy these rather than the oem ones.

RicardoSmith

lomb wrote:

not for long u wont, b4 the power supply explodes.

Yes and power supplies usually explode when they fail... :rolleyes:

lomb wrote:

ati did it this way as if they were to add a proper heatsink, it would indeed take 2 slots up so they balanced a wide market appeal against failures and warranty repairs. i dont think they got the balance right personally, anyway ati retail cards are warranted for 3 years so best to buy these rather than the oem ones.

Once the ram, gpu and board stay within its tolerances then it doesn't matter what headsink and fan you have on it. It doesn't have to run cool to be reliable and not fail. A heatsink that isn't hot either isn't needed, or isn't fitted right.


They fitted the fan that worked. There isn't a widescale problem with 9800's overheating.

DirtyHarry

SpooN_9k wrote:

im running a 9800pro of a dell psu as we speak (waiting for my new case and PSU to arrive)

i might even try to run my new x800XT of this psu but im not so sure about that as il probably end up setting my house on fire when it explodes :eek:

i would like to tell you all that psu is a 250 watt one....so it does the job perfect.

@lomb, do you have some problem with ATI and 9800 pro's? other than two failing on you (that true?) Well you shouldnt, 9800 pro's are fantastic cards that play the latest games at good levels. (i had one) And for not an arm and a leg to buy either.

Sherifu

lol @ lomb and his dodgy cards!

I have a s/h 9800 card i got from boards running fine on a generic 300W psu.
God knows its real power output.
If 9800's keep failing on ya dont buy them again. :rolleyes:
Leave the rest of us in peace from your bitching.

rkm.

unkel

Just to be on the safe side, I connected the optional Zalman fan onto the graphics card / heatpipe combo before continuous gameplay

So, €100 plus the cost of the heatpipe + optional fan for a quiet 9800XT is bad? I shouldn't think so

dent

The fact that you can flash most 9800 pro's to XT makes them a great value card. They do run super hot but I managed to clock my core to 473.54 with an Arctic cooler. Heat never never seemed to impact its performance.

koneko

We've had several 9800Pros, not a single hardware problem (all sold/gone now). I used to have one in my Shuttle system, no heat problems at all (sweet LAN rig, how I miss thee).

RicardoSmith

dent wrote:

The fact that you can flash most 9800 pro's to XT makes them a great value card. They do run super hot but I managed to clock my core to 473.54 with an Arctic cooler. Heat never never seemed to impact its performance.

I doubt that its most of them.

Khannie

RicardoSmith wrote:

I doubt that its most of them.

I got mine to 428 stable with an arctic cooler and arctic silver. R350 core. The benefit wasn't really obvious so I'm back to running at close to stock with slightly overclocked ram.