Can anyone tell me

Degsy

Are the guards unhelpfull,rude and obstructionist with all first-time firearms applicants or is it just me?When making the application i got the distinct impression that i was commiting some sort of felonious act just by being there and that basically i was wasting my time.Does the sergeant have the power to veto an application based on his own personal feelings???

civdef

Generally not, but there are a fair number of Gardai who act in the manner you describe to firearms licence applicants. The trick is not to be put off if you are treated like this and stand your ground. If it gets bad enough that you feel you are being treated unacceptably just speak directly to the district superintendent - failing that you could always make a formal complaint, which gets noticed. No harm to have someone with you the next time you visit the station - a witness never goes astray.

Sparks

Like Civ said, most of the Gardai are decent enough, but the odd few you encounter who are otherwise do seem to do their best to make up for the excessive good nature of the others...
It's hard not to see their point of view, mind - they've no training in firearms legislation, no guidelines to follow, and it's their <insert preferred part of anatomy here> on the chopping block if they muck it up, so it's in their best interests to be unfriendly to you as it minimises the amount of work they have to do.
Just remember that understanding where they're coming from doesn't mean you have to accept it. Know the rules before you go in, know precisely what you want, and don't accept less than civil manners. At the same time, don't go overboard without knowing what you could end up dealing with - a miffed Garda is a recipe for a lot of hassle

chem

Yep that would be my general impression of the good old gardi at my station.
I applied for a rifle licence a number of years back, and the sarGENT at the time was about to retire. I was waiting 6 months till he retired and then found out that he had been sitting on over 200 applications
I knew this man since i was a kid (pal,ed round with his son) and he still had an almost god like fear of gun owners.
Even the latest member in charge of the applications at the local is not to keen. I have owned a number of guns in all shapes and makes over the years without one moment of me ever coming to the attention of the garda for any reason, but yet when i went in to go for a pistol licence, the remark was passed "What do yea want that for? unless you want to shoot someone in the pub with it!" :eek:

Now what in the name of all thats holly was that about? I should have rared up, but i bit my lip because there is a general feeling that if you dont respect the blue shirt behind the desk, chances are your car could be stopped and given the mother of all going overs to make sure tires, lights and tax are all in order. But then again that might be me just being paranoid

Just DO NOT GIVE UP ON YOUR APPLICATION. if they have a thing about firearms they will try make it abit more difficult so as to put you off. but if you are not disentitled to hold a firearm, the can`t stop you from having one.

marco murphy

Lazy some of those cops.
Me dad went in and he was saying he was moving house and needed to change something on liscense.They gardai said its not like your gonna shoot anyone...

Sparks

chem wrote:

if you are not disentitled to hold a firearm, the can`t stop you from having one.

Er, actually...
The rule is that if you're not disentitled to hold a firearm, they can't stop you from applying for a licence. There's no duty on anyone to grant you the licence, though they have to give a reason and if someone's playing silly buggers then you can have their decision reviewed by the High Court. But noone can force the Superintendent to grant a licence, he's the designated authority by law. In fact the NARGC took the gardai to the Supreme Court on that point (though they were arguing that noone could force him to not grant a licence, the principle's the same).

Irishglockfan

Pop over to the Garda website.There should be a charter of the Gardai on their dealings with the general public.Courtsey and unbiasedness in decisions,not to mind prompt attention to the requests of the general sheeple...er ..taxpaying public is mentioned a few times.I do belive this is also to be posted in ALL Garda stations in a prominent place.You might want a copy of this document,and might care to ask the Gaurd to expand on his statement wether witty or not about killing people in the pub?Quick way to nip such wiseass comments is to mumble somthing audibley like"must tell my solicitor about that.doesnt he know the super well?"or "wonder will the garda complaints board find that funny."Do it of course only if they are only being right bollixes,and your application is going nowhere.Otherwise just smile and remember that this is just another, as Brendan Behan said about the Irish beuraccy of all shapes."Hatches,Hitches, BA£$%"!DS and BI^&HES."

gouda

Degsy wrote:

Are the guards unhelpfull,rude and obstructionist with all first-time firearms applicants or is it just me?When making the application i got the distinct impression that i was commiting some sort of felonious act just by being there and that basically i was wasting my time.Does the sergeant have the power to veto an application based on his own personal feelings???

I would be inclined to print this off and bring it in next time. It is from the Home Office Guidelines to Police on Firearms and is very interesting. In fact, maybe everyone on the board should carry a copy when dealing with licence applications.


9. The shooting sports have one of the lowest incidents of accidental injuries of all sports in the UK. It is therefore important to bear in mind when called upon to give security advice that any careless or off the cuff remarks about the shooting community may be offensive to those who, because they already realise the importance of firearm security, are motivated in the first place to seek your advice. Remember that - particularly at renewals - the certificate holder may have considerable experience in the area of firearms and have considered the issue of security seriously.

10. Remember that any patronising, illogical or ill-considered comment may bring discredit upon the police force. You will experience a willingness to co-operate from the shooting community, providing the advice you give is reasonable, realistic and commensurate with the risks involved.

11. Your advice should be a demonstration of the type of good quality customer care being pursued by the police service. An open minded, realistic and pragmatic approach when giving crime prevention advice to shooters will go a long way to breaking down any barriers of distrust.

Irishglockfan

Lovely stuff.......IF we were in the United Kingdom!!
This is Southern Ireland.
Try bringing that PR document[English] to a Gaurds attention!I think the quote"Are you bein smart??"would issue .
Along with a straight reject to the circular file, past,present and future of any applications you might make.
Best to smile vacantly at this obvisouly novel and wonderous sense of humour and then ask when will they issue the cert?

CrowdedHouse

Irishglockfan wrote:

Lovely stuff.......IF we were in the United Kingdom!!
This is Southern Ireland.

Where's this Southern Ireland place ?

I think you'll find the name of the country is Ireland (not Republic of ......Southern....or Eire-except in the Irish language)

Irishglockfan

Whatever..... The correct title is republic of Ireland
Considering that most people in Europe,the USA and the UK think when you are talking about Ireland you are talking about Northern Ireland!Most havent heard of "Eire" or of Gaelic either!

Sparks

Ei2JC wrote:

I think you'll find the name of the country is Ireland (not Republic of ......Southern....or Eire-except in the Irish language)

(And even then, doesn't Eire refer to a non-existant-except-in-some-theories 32-county state?)
Anyway, back on track...

The Guidelines to Police that gouda published just don't exist over here and the UK ones have no standing, no more than the guidelines for Mongolian police would, but the Gardai still have general guidelines that state that uncivil behaviour is not acceptable. And, again, to be fair, the majority aren't uncivil, it's just a case of the rotten apple having a particularly strong bad taste...

mcguiver

I first applied in a city centre station and got a rough time, a seargent made a rookie fill in all the paperwork, and then when she was finished.. ripped it up and told her she'd done it wrong. (Great training there).
Moved and then applied in the suburbs, couldnt have got a more helpfull Garda...seemed to be a shooter and very enthusiastic.
From talking to Gardai, there is a big issue with not knowing the legislation..and getting a bollocking when they mess up.Plus there are some that seem to have the attitude that they can't carry guns...so why should anyone else. In general it's bite your lip, play by the book and note everthing thats said to you..time/date etc. but best of all try to speak to a local shooter who can point ya in the right direction.

daithi

I think its much easier to get a licence in the stix alright, I had no problems, sat an interview with the local firearms officer, was asked normal questions, what do you plan using it for, where are you using it, where do you plan on storing it.
I think it is easier because, the officer will more than likely know the family anyway, and my dad has a gun also.
Probably the main concern for cops with giving people guns in citys and towns is not that they dont trust the person, its just that they dont want it getting nicked on you and ending up in the wrong hands. you could also argue that it has an equal chance of getting nicked in the stix but its all down to perception, and I have not a clue of the statistics, its just my take on it.