Pull in by the guards

Jivin Turkey

This morning I pulled a cheeky left turn, at a no left turn sign. I honestly didnt remember it ever being there until I was right up at it and saw it, so I had come so far I wasnt turning back (I was driving a different route than usual due to the chaos on the M50 yesterday).

To my delight, I saw a garda car, parked waiting for me (and the others who had made and subsequently made the same mistake).

I was very civil to the garda, and claimed innocence and ignorance, but obviously (ultimately) accepted the blame. He asked for my licence and insurance cert. I didnt have my either, so he asked me to produce them at a a station within 7 days. I told him that I would do so tonight and named the station I would go to. With that he said if I did he would let it go.

I dropped the documents into the station this evening and the garda took the details and sent me on my way.

What are the chances of me hearing anything further from this? And whats the penalty for ignoring traffic signs? Could I be facing penalty points?

mike65

Hmmm, the guard at the scene said nothing? Nor the guy on the desk (not that I would expect the latter to).

I dunno off the top of my head how long you'll do for an illegal left turn

Mike.

cormie

I think its just to run a check on your licence actually.

I had to do the same. I was pulled over because I only had one headlight, there were 4 of us in the car and the car looked a bit beat up (Thanks allot! haha)

I didn't show my licence and was asked to show it in the local station. Did and nothing happened after that:)

Jivin Turkey

Your man knew damn well what I was doing, rat running through a housing estate to avoid rush hour traffic, but he said he would do nothing if I showed my licence and insurance.

Im not really worried to be honest, just wondering what the penalty is for such an offence.

Seth Brundle

I think you will be fine. Sure it is an offence itself not to have your licence on you now and he said nothing!

delly

I don't know if it was ever finalised, but when the rule about having your licence on you first came in, the thought was that you could get one point for not having it.

As regards the illegal left turn, if you get a good brief, you'll be looking at about 12 to 24 months inside. I doubt that you'd get away with the probation act for such a serious offence.

Lord Nikon

Your lucky, I'm surprised you didn't get points for not having a licence. Don't think there'll be a fine, I wouldn't worry about it.

seamus

Jivin Turkey wrote:

but he said he would do nothing if I showed my licence and insurance.

Only in Ireland would you get off if you can show that you have insurance and licence, which you're supposed to have anyway. :rolleyes:

I'm not attacking you - we've all done the sneaky skip-through even when it's illegal - but this kind of "I'll let you off if you're otherwise driving legally" is half of the problem on our roads.

edmund_f

seamus wrote:

but this kind of "I'll let you off if you're otherwise driving legally" is half of the problem on our roads.

totally agree, subjective enforcement, but what are you gonna' do?

BrianD

One point for not having your drivers licence on you.

TheMonster

Why are the cops bothering to stop there and pull cars if they are not going to book them :rolleyes: Another waste of police time - why not spend it on the roads lookign for people speeding?

ubu

Something similar happened to my brother, he went along and produced licence, insurance etc that night and forgot about it, 6 months later he got a summons for driving uninsured and failure to produce his licence, the garda station apparently "misplaced" to record of him showing up :rolleyes:

FX Meister

So is there a fine for doing this? If there isn't then what's to stop people doing it?

Turner

TheMonster wrote:

Why are the cops bothering to stop there and pull cars if they are not going to book them :rolleyes: Another waste of police time - why not spend it on the roads lookign for people speeding?

Would you prefer all Gardai to operate to the letter of the law and exercise no police discretion?

It seems no matter what they do they are always in the wrong

Chief

seamus

Chief--- wrote:

Would you prefer all Gardai to operate to the letter of the law and exercise no police discretion?

It seems no matter what they do they are always in the wrong

In this case it's a bit silly though. It's like the TV licence inspector letting you away with having no TV licence because you didn't rob your telly.

Turner

But how many people saw him being pulled in by the Gards, all saying to themselves as they sped away "yer mano is so thick risking that turn..after seeing him pulled in there im never gonna try that now" How do they know he never got booked.

Gardai get same job done if you ask me as if they did fine him E20 or whatever it is for taking an illegal turn.

Downtime

FX Meister wrote:

So is there a fine for doing this? If there isn't then what's to stop people doing it?

1 point for not obeying road sign and 3 if it goes to court. Dunno if there is a fine, suppose it comes under careless driving which is a €1,500 fine, max.

Turner

There is no points for disobeying the sign, no points for not having your licence either.

Fine on the spot or summons.

Downtime

Chief--- wrote:

There is no points for disobeying the sign, no points for not having your licence either.

Fine on the spot or summons.

Sorry, you are right - these are due to come into effect soon.

Turner

I know.

Check http://www.penaltypoints.ie/index2.php?fn=list_of_offences.html

Downtime

I know you know,as I just said you know.

seamus

Chief--- wrote:

But how many people saw him being pulled in by the Gards, all saying to themselves as they sped away "yer mano is so thick risking that turn..after seeing him pulled in there im never gonna try that now" How do they know he never got booked.

Gardai get same job done if you ask me as if they did fine him E20 or whatever it is for taking an illegal turn.

Don't get me wrong, the discretion allowed for Gardai is great. But this similar to Broken Windows Theory. Allow the smaller violations to go unpunished, and the volume of violations increases.

Downtime

seamus wrote:

Don't get me wrong, the discretion allowed for Gardai is great. But this similar to Broken Windows Theory. Allow the smaller violations to go unpunished, and the volume of violations increases.

Too true. Also if you get caught the next time you feel aggrieved as you got away with it the first time.

quarryman

can't help you with the impending jail-time jivin_turkey but would you correct that quote in your sig?

its wrong. and there's nothing* worse than seeing the Simpsons mis-quoted.

* apart from jail.

Jivin Turkey

seamus wrote:

In this case it's a bit silly though. It's like the TV licence inspector letting you away with having no TV licence because you didn't rob your telly.

Its nothing like that really, because I have been issued a licence.

seamus

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Its nothing like that really, because I have been issued a licence.

O_o
The issue of the licence is irrelevent. My point is that people are let off of offences so long as they're doing something that they should legally have been doing anyway.

shurl

ubu wrote:

Something similar happened to my brother, he went along and produced licence, insurance etc that night and forgot about it, 6 months later he got a summons for driving uninsured and failure to produce his licence, the
garda station apparently "misplaced" to record of him showing up :rolleyes:

Sorry to hijack thread!
Hey Ubu,
This exact same thing has happened to me today.
Was driving through Drumcondra last August, it was absolutly lashing rain, I was stopped just after the traffic lights waiting for the cars ahead to move. (heavy traffic) I let another car though to turn left into the side street, then I saw the cars ahead move so I went. However I was past the lights and didn't see that they had changed to Red!!. Anyway, Garda car saw this and pulled me over. I told him what happend he took my licence, went to his car, checked it and came back. He asked if I had my Insurance Cert on me but I said I didn't, so he told me to bring it to my local station within 10 days. Did this the next day.
Now today over 6 months later I got 5! summons in the post!

-Failure to produce licence
-Driving without a licence
-Failure to produce my insurance cert
-Driving without insurance
-Failure to stop at red light.

Got on the phone to the station and the girl on the phone confirmed that I had given everything I was asked and that it was a mistake.
She says I have to call the Garda who stopped me and confirm with him.
However she says I still have to appear in court!

Anyone have any advice?

S.

mike65

Ouch! Clearly you have to find the garda who was at the scene, that may require you to get in touch with the station sergent and ask him to go through the log book to check who was on duty and took the details of you "shurl" on that date.

Then you will have to see the desk log book which should contain details of you presenting your details to the desk garda from the day after you "ran" the light in the presence of the garda who stopped you.


Mike.

shurl

Cheers Mike,
Yeah, accoring to the girl on the phone in the Garda Station, it is on the system that I a) Gave the Garda my license when he stopped me and b) Gave my insurance cert the next day.

The Garda mentioned on the summons will not be in untill tomorrow so I have to call him.

If he confirms that I did give all the info/details that were required, do you have any idea what will happen then?

S.

mike65

Well however accidently, you did "run" a red light. I guess this would mean a court appearance, after all it is worth a summonds. The best than can happen is that you explain the circumstances of what happened (very low speed, nose to tail traffic) and you get a rather small fine and a point or two. Most insurance companies seem to be willing to cut some slack regarding points (1 or 2 okay).

Mike.

ubu

Yea, once you get the summons you have to go to court, what happened with my brother was that he got in contact with the garda station where he produced his licence etc and the garda(who was an absolute prick btw) that stopped him, he was from a different station, and explained what happened and the garda basically said "nothing i can do, your problem not mine"

When they found the record of the insurance, licence etc they said those charges would be struck out on the day in court but the other charge still stands and theres not much you can do about it, best thing to do is approach the garda that actually stopped you, he might be more sympathetic when you explain that you actually had a licence, insurance, etc.

What happened in my bro's case was that there was a long line of cars turning left at a T junction, at the bottom there is a right turning lane and a left turning lane but before thre is only one lane and he overtook all the waiting cars(no road markings on this part of the road) and went into the empty right turning lane, after the turn he got stopped.

The actual charges were pretty much the same as you have now, but careless driving instead of not stopping at a red light.

This pissed him off because he knew that if the station hadn't lost the record of him turning up he never would have got the summons for careless driving on its own, nothing he could do though.

When it came to the day in court he spoke to the garda beforehand and the garda agreed to drop the charge to "driving without due care & attention" so he agreed to pleaded guilty to this and got a €100 fine.

So basically in your case, you will still have to go to court, the only charge will be the failure to stop and hopefully you can explain the situation and get off with a slap on the wrist,sh1tty i know but the best you can hope for, hope this was of some help

ubu

Running a red light isnt on the list of offences for penalty points so i dont think you should have to worry about getting points

Victor

shurl wrote:

Was driving through Drumcondra last August, it was absolutly lashing rain, I was stopped just after the traffic lights waiting for the cars ahead to move. (heavy traffic) I let another car though to turn left into the side street, then I saw the cars ahead move so I went. However I was past the lights and didn't see that they had changed to Red!!. Anyway, Garda car saw this and pulled me over. I told him what happend he took my licence, went to his car, checked it and came back.

So you were obstructing a junction / failed to stop at a stop line

shurl

Cheers for the advice lads.

Well went to court today. (Thanks Victor because of you I was waiting for her to mention obstructions )
Garda told Judge that he HAD seen my licence so that was struck out.
He seemed to forget that I called him and told him I produced my Insurance the next day. However I came armed with a letter from my local station confirming I produced all info the following day.

For the Red Light I pleaded Guilty. Said I was stopped past the lights saw the cars ahead of me move and moved on myself.
All I have to do is pay a charitable donation of €150 thank god.!

Had the suit on and was all nice and respectfull so I'd say that helped!

S.

mike65

Sounds like a result in the circumstances.

Mike.

shurl

It was indeed.

She wasn't that easy either, she laid down some fairly nasty penalties while I was waiting.!

Seth Brundle

shurl wrote:

It was indeed.

She wasn't that easy either, she laid down some fairly nasty penalties while I was waiting.!

I bet you were bricking it by the time you were up!

gulp

i wouldnt worry bout it man.id say it was just a routine stop as much as anything else and you gave him a reason to stop you

Capt'n Midnight

Chief--- wrote:

Would you prefer all Gardai to operate to the letter of the law and exercise no police discretion?

It seems no matter what they do they are always in the wrong

Chief

Well depending on who you believe 1/5 drivers don't have a valid license and 1/10 don't have insurance and this has been going on for DECADES.

Lord Nikon

I remember I dressed real nice for court, suit, shower, polished shoes. I was never in court before and didn't really know what to expect.

You always see skangers outside the forecourts, who are been done for shoplifting and whatnot, with no suit or nothing on them.

So, when i entered the courtroom, there was people all over the place, some people scrubbed up, some people not. At the end of the day though, it doesn't matter what you look like, it's the crime you commit.

I got away free that day.

Caught speeding, didn't pay fine, recieved summons, then paid the fine(the women in the fine office let me pay it, and gave me a reciept), recieved letter from Dept. of Transport saying i had 2 points on my licence, went to court, they said i didn't pay fine(which i did), showed them my Dept of Transport letter and they said that it could have been for a seperate speeding offence, showed them my reciept which was dated before i recieved the summons, Guard appologises blah blah blah, thrown out and only 2 points on my licence.

I can honestly say, that the whole experience has effected my driving in a good way.

seamus

neuromancer wrote:

So, when i entered the courtroom, there was people all over the place, some people scrubbed up, some people not. At the end of the day though, it doesn't matter what you look like, it's the crime you commit.

I don't think so, but I can't speak from experience. The courtroom is meant to be a highly respected institution. Hence why Judges are called "Your Honour" (do they do this in Ireland), and why a person can be arrested for contempt of court. By turning up looking like a scumbag makes it appear that a) You have no respect for the court and b) You couldn't give a toss about the charges in general, i.e. you're a scumbag.

My 2c.

Seth Brundle

I think Judges are referred to as 'Judge' here

shurl

kbannon wrote:

I bet you were bricking it by the time you were up!

You have no idea. The young fella before my was banned for 6 months
had his licence endorsed and was fined 500 quid.

neuromancer wrote:

I can honestly say, that the whole experience has effected my driving in a good way.

Yeah was my first time in court so didn't know what to expect myself.
It has definately affected how I drive. So it obviously works (for some)

S

shurl

kbannon wrote:

I think Judges are referred to as 'Judge' here

Yup Judge it is.

Very nearly called her a "sir" though. Damn nerves!

S.