My STT stats on VC

Lafortezza

I'd be interested in getting some opinions on my STT stats from VC. Currently I'm breaking even on STTs, doing slightly better in the last while, playing mostly €3, €5 and €10 ones.

I play very very tight for the first few levels, only playing the top few hands. I don't limp with suited Aces, suited connectors, KQo/KJo, weak Aces.
If I get a nice hand or two early on, and build my stack, I try to attack the small stacks' blinds, if I get ground down I'll play very aggressively to work my way back up.

Thoughts welcome.

Shortstack

You don't seem to win a lot of showdowns, yet you have an ok win % if you see the flop, your overall games won rate is not too bad but I would say you are seeing too many flops. If you tighten up a little you will have a better hand more often when you see the flop and both percentages should increase. To win consistently at this game you need to win over 50% of showdowns and over 50% when seeing flop ( getting showdown % up will take care of wins if flop seen).
Try and see flops in position more often, then you can win more hands without showing down. In essence you need to become more tight and aggressive. I very rarely see a flop without raising whatever cards I am playing in STT's. Only 1 in 3 flops you see with a raise. The quote from rounders apllies here ' if it's good enough to call, it's good enough to raise..'
Another tip is to concentrate on stealing bigger stacks blinds when you are near the bubble. A low stack has nothing to lose by coming back over the top. Most big stacks will only play back at you with a very strong hand in this position. Losing small all ins to little stacks is costly in the long run.
Try playing other sites too, some have better structures and will give a better player a bigger edge over weaker ones. Without pimping I would try Party, Pokerstars or Ultimate Bet. They all have similar stakes but better structures and more games to choose from. You will rarley wait longer than 2 mins for a game at any level less than $50 to start. If you can believe it the low limit players here are much worse than at VC ! They are mostly yanks you see !
HectorJelly will probably give a different answer, but this seems to work for me !

Lafortezza

Thanks for the reply Mike.

Shortstack wrote:

but I would say you are seeing too many flops. If you tighten up a little you will have a better hand more often when you see the flop and both percentages should increase.

In essence you need to become more tight and aggressive. I very rarely see a flop without raising whatever cards I am playing in STT's. Only 1 in 3 flops you see with a raise. The quote from rounders apllies here ' if it's good enough to call, it's good enough to raise..'

Maybe the stats are affected by the change in play when it gets short-handed or headsup, but I really do play very tight in the early and middle stages. Most of my limps would come from the small blind and BB with speculative hands. I do tend to call if I'm getting pot odds to chase a straight or flush, maybe this is not such a good thing in a STT where you can't afford to bleed chips compared to a MTT or cash game.

I agree with "good enough to call, good enough to raise" and I will raise non-nut hands with position and if I think I can steal.

I think my weakness is betting and folding to a reraise in certain situations, sometimes I get caught with hand-in-cookie-jar too often. And also trying to bet people out of pots when it's obvious that they have a better hand than I do.

Hectorjelly

You need to see less flops, Im not sure how if you really arent limping with KJ or QJ or similar hands in the 1st few levels, maybe cutout A10 and AJ in ep. My flops seen is 24%. You also (IMO) should try and cut the call stat down, there are times when calling is right but not many. My bet % is a lot lower than yours, but my raise is higher, thats probably cause your leading out into preflop raisers and betting out from the blinds with not great hands, but thats mainly a style issue.

Hectorjelly

My showdowns won and wins if flop are exactly the same as yours, there is no way my showdowns won is 17% so I would ignore those stats.

BrendanB

These are mine since I've been using pokertracker properly (about 3 weeks). I play STTs and 2 table games on pokerstars, have been doing fairly well, ROI is about 60% profit between the lot. I suspect my problem is a lack of post flop raising, I bet a lot though

Total Hands: 1,961

Vol. Put $ In Pot: 26.98 % (529 times out of 1,961)
Vol. Put $ In From SB: 44.02 % (151 times out of 343)

Saw Flop All Hands: 22.74 % (446 times out of 1,961)
Saw Flop Not A Blind: 15.43 % (197 times out of 1,277)

Att. To Steal Blinds: 36.03 % (147 times out of 408)

Won $ When Saw Flop: 43.50 % (194 times out of 446)

Went To Showdown: 39.46 % (176 times out of 446)
Won $ At SD: 49.43 % (87 times out of 176)



PS. how do you get images up inline?

Shortstack

BrendanB wrote:

ROI is about 60% profit between the lot. I suspect my problem is a lack of post flop raising, I bet a lot though

QUOTE]

If your ROI is 60% for STT you don't have a problem ! What levels are you playing ?
You may find it lowers slightly over time. I had +100% for my first 10 on Pokerstars and now after almost 100 it is down 30%. This is at $25 & $50 levels. I lost most when I tried the turbo's. I have gone back to normal ones and seen my profits start to rise again.

From reading other forums & blogs 40% ROI over a large sample size (500+) is what you should be aiming for.

BrendanB

Mostly at $10, occasionally up to 20 or multitable 5s. I think at that level you can reasonably expect to make at least 40-50, some of the opposition is dire. I think in 2TTs there's a bigger edge, with a nice shorthanded + moderate blinds period before the tables join. I can't hack multitabling though, I find I can't pick my spots to make moves at all.

Shortstack

BrendanB wrote:

Mostly at $10, occasionally up to 20 or multitable 5s. I think at that level you can reasonably expect to make at least 40-50, some of the opposition is dire. I think in 2TTs there's a bigger edge, with a nice shorthanded + moderate blinds period before the tables join. I can't hack multitabling though, I find I can't pick my spots to make moves at all.

Have you thought about your $/hr earnings ?

Here are some figures, I am basing it on an average of 1hr per tournament, it may work out slighty less but mostly if you make the top three you will be at level 6 blinds 100/200.

50% ROI = $5 per tournament at $10 level or $5/hr
40% ROI = $10 per tournamnent at $25 level or $10/hr
30% ROI = $15 per tournamnent at $50 level or $15/hr
25% ROI = $25 per tournament at $100 level or $25/hr

If you are multitabling you can multiply these figures by the amount of tables you play.

Obviously size of bankroll needs to be taken into account as you can get runs of no cashes however good you are. Terence Chan, a pro, recently went 17 $200 STT's without a cash and he is a very good player. This was extreme though. I would say a bankroll of 15-20 buy ins should cover you. As soon as your bankroll is big enough to move up a level give it a go. Move down if your bankroll drops too much. Here is a rough guide :-

$100 or less bankroll - stick to $5
$100 - $200 move up/down to $10
$200 - $1000 move up/down to $25
$1000 - $2000 move up/down to $50
$2000+ play the $100's

I only post this as I soon realised playing $5 and $10 the best you can expect is the same as you get for working in MacDonalds ! ( unless you are multitabling them )

BrendanB

Yeah, I figured this as well, though I think the potential ROI on 2TTs with a small buyin can be sustained at quite a high level. That said, my setup is starting to be playing very tight Hi/Lo Stud in the background, which can be a great moneyspinner at the lower blind levels. You'll stick 10 an hour on earnings and still be able to concentrate on the tourney.

Marq

Brendan, are you playing online poker full-time?

Lafortezza

Hectorjelly wrote:

My bet % is a lot lower than yours, but my raise is higher, thats probably cause your leading out into preflop raisers and betting out from the blinds with not great hands, but thats mainly a style issue.

I tend to bet out from the SB or BB after the flop when I think the other players have hit none of it. So far players at the level I'm playing have fairly predictable preflop betting patterns, so I can put them on a range of hands, it also helps if I have hit some part of a raggy flop and bet it, folding to a big reraise if need be.
If I have K4o in the BB and there's 2 players to act after my I'll tend to bet a flop of 943, depending on the situation of course.

And you other fúckers can stop hijacking my thread!

Marq

oops. sorry luke.

having reviewed your stt statistics, i still think you're crap.

][cEMAN**

These are mine. I'm just looking at them and realising i'm seeing a few too many flops, but mostly they're from just calling cheap blinds.

With me and STTs I tend to get to 4th place and get a good hand, but get beaten by a better hand. My only excuse for this is that at 4th place i'm not much ahead of the guy who should be 4th, and I try to win a few, but get dragged into an all in somehow Need more discipline.

When I get to a showdown, I tend to get bored too quickly and would prefer folding for a fraction of what i'd win, rather than fighting for another 20 mins over a small amount extra.

BrendanB

Iceman, I think you need to seriously tighten up, I don't think the size of stacks in STTs justifies messing around with any sort of drawing hands. 57% is way too much, and given you're calling way more often than betting/raising it means you're not putting any pressure on people and giving too many cheap cards. I'd try playing pure raise/fold for a few games. You just get screwed too often limping with small cards out of position, flopping a draw, check/calling, missing and being bet off on the turn. R/F also means once the blinds get serious you'll have built table image to make stealing easier.