Mortgage - Engineer - Advice

yop

Lads

Applied for mortgage there in January for a self build. Requirement for Engineer was to have indemnity insurance which he does.

So sent in all the paperwork and forms etc, got approval, put in place house insurance, life cover etc etc.
Contracts signed on the site, ready for drawdown on the site there yesterday.

Got a call from the mortgage company who tell me that they will not give us the money as they see that on the form from my engineer he does not have 10 year experience on his own!!
Got onto him and he has overseen loads of house builds with other banks without issue, now they try and swing this one on us

To say I am fupped off is a major understatement, I have now wasted 7 weeks, money etc, have I any ground to stand on, can they actually do this??

Is there some "body" that I can contact for free advice as this is disgraceful

cheers

rooferPete

Hi yop,

That is disgraceful, your engineer would not have been insured if he wasn't qualified, the bank set out the rules and you followed them, I have never come across a minimum time period practicing for an engineer to deemed qualified.

I think your engineer should step up and show his qualifications and insurance and remind the bank they are creating a situation where they will run out of engineers if nobody can actually work for the first ten years of Self Employment.

While you are stuck in the middle, the way I see it is the resolution lies between the engineer and the lender.

Macy

I really don't see why it's an issue if he has insurance. My advice would be to change banks if at all possible. If they're messing with something crap like this at this stage, then it doesn't bode well for the future.

We'd agreed a mortgage with TSB, who when it came to sign, after a few weeks, for them to introduced a load of stupid conditions on us. We're with EBS, and while they may not have the best starter rates, their service and effeciency can't be faulted from our point of view - done and dusted in a few days as opposed to weeks with the other crowd (also no hard sell on life assurance/critical illness policies like TSB). Plus they're open on a Saturday morning which is another advantage.

yop

Lads

thanks for getting back to me, to say I am annoyed is an understatement to be honest, I am definately going to contact IFRSA about this as this is not good enough

Enii

As a matter of interest Yop which bank was it?

wideband

Hi Yop,

The last thing you need at this early stage is this messing around.......roofer pete has given sound advise....

Im not sure exactly what work the engineer has done upto now on your project but would you consider hiring an engineering firm to either take over or put pressure on the engineer to talk to one or his contacts to back him up with indemnity cover.

best of luck

Macy

wideband wrote:

Im not sure exactly what work the engineer has done upto now on your project but would you consider hiring an engineering firm to either take over or put pressure on the engineer to talk to one or his contacts to back him up with indemnity cover.

If the engineer has indemity cover, which yop says he does, then the problem is clearly with the bank. If yop goes down that route, the engineer would probably just walk away - and frankly who could blame him?

Enii

This happened to a friend of mine (except they had a problem with the architect) he went to the the bank manager and "threatened" to change bank saying that it is alot easier to get a good bank than a good architect. He went on to say he had a good architect but he didn't think his bank was performing. The bank manager backed down and gave him the loan. The bank has no right to call into question the professionalism of the engineer. The engineer has his PI Insurance, the banks are covered, so why are they looking for double coverage? The banks are also covered if you are getting Homebond in place, the banks are structurally covered by this, aside from by the Engineers insurance. They are covered up to their necks so does 10 years really matter. Get your engineer to get on the phone and tell them that he is bringing his name into disrepute, etcs. What qualification does the bank have to question his professionalism, qualifications, etc. The engineer needs to be strong on this issue and read the riot act to the bank and it should work out. If it doesn't walk away and get another bank......

Borzoi

yop wrote:

Lads

Got a call from the mortgage company who tell me that they will not give us the money as they see that on the form from my engineer he does not have 10 year experience on his own!!

Can you name the mortage provider. I'm sure the Insitute of Engineers of Ireland would only be delighted to find out if that a bank is setting itself up to rival their state legislated ability to set standards for Engineers.

yop

Borzoi wrote:

Can you name the mortage provider. I'm sure the Insitute of Engineers of Ireland would only be delighted to find out if that a bank is setting itself up to rival their state legislated ability to set standards for Engineers.

The bank is First Active, these guys are a joke and believe me I will be highlighting this as publically as possible, they should not be able to call into question an engineers experience, IF he has got his indemnity insurance then there should not be an issue

Enii

Totally agree that the bank should not be calling into question the experience of the engineer once he has indemnity cover. Don't understand what the banks problem is - their risk is covered, that is all they should be bothered about....

Macy

yop wrote:

The bank is First Active, these guys are a joke

Funnily enough we went to them, and ended up walking out of the meeting after 5 minutes telling them they were wasting our time. Looking for non-sensical conditions before even considering us - I mean if I was on the other side of the desk it would be a no brainer.

wideband

Macy wrote:

If the engineer has indemity cover, which yop says he does, then the problem is clearly with the bank. If yop goes down that route, the engineer would probably just walk away - and frankly who could blame him?

thats not entirely true Macy.........the bank says its to do with the engineers experience, so its not clearly the banks problem

also i asked what work the engineer had done ........little work = who cares if he walks away = possibly more reputable engineer firm (not saying engineer at present isnt reputable, just may not have the backup)

Nukem

Borzoi wrote:

Can you name the mortage provider. I'm sure the Insitute of Engineers of Ireland would only be delighted to find out if that a bank is setting itself up to rival their state legislated ability to set standards for Engineers.

Was just goin to suggest this. That is against the law surely.
Unless there is some Mickey Mouse law with self builds in the last few months but i would doubt it.

Macy

wideband wrote:

thats not entirely true Macy.........the bank says its to do with the engineers experience, so its not clearly the banks problem

also i asked what work the engineer had done ........little work = who cares if he walks away = possibly more reputable engineer firm (not saying engineer at present isnt reputable, just may not have the backup)

All the banks we went to, the critea is indemity cover. If he has that, and is fully covered, then it is the banks problem imo. It's not within the banks remite to decide if an engineer is qualified - it's up to their professional body. It's like them telling you your solicitor isn't experienced enough for them so they won't deal with him/her, despite them being fully qualified - who are they to judge?

yop

Thanks lads for all you posts, at present this is been dealt with by the IEI, IFSRA, emails have gone to Eddie Hobs, Business Editor of the Irish Independent, the complaints department of First Active (if they do not look into this and give me something suitable, I have the right to go to the ombudsman), also letters have gone to the Manager of First Active Ireland and also the Finance Director of the same.

I will let you know IF anything comes back.

BTW I went to NIB today to start the process of an OffSet mortgage and found them helpfull.

kadman

Fair play to your persistence Yop, it will pay off.

kadman

yop

Thanks Kadsman, I don't like been fupped over, I will keep ye updated on the progress IF any.

slán

boroughmal

Your bank manager probably has one or two of these up his sleeve.
Jobs for the boys uno

yop

"Your bank manager probably has one or two of these up his sleeve.
Jobs for the boys uno"

Well if he does let him tell IFSRA that, thankfully was contacted by them today and they are talking to First Active today, well actually it is Ulster Bank, same company owns First Active and Ulster Bank and First Active do not have a complaints department.

Macy

boroughmal wrote:

Your bank manager probably has one or two of these up his sleeve.
Jobs for the boys uno

The thought had crossed my mind too, I was waiting for him/her to "recommend" an engineer....

Macy

Yop, just being nosey really, but whats the story with all this bull now?

yop

well the summary is:

Contact First Active and IFSRA - no response from First Active. Got contact from IFSRA, found them very helpful, they managed to get a contact in First Active, turned out that First Active complaints dept is actually with Ulster Bank.

They seem to have 'fogotten' about the 10 year experience issue but are claiming that since my engineer did not tick a box on the form indicating his qualifications then he needed to ahve the 10 year expericen.
Now bar the fact that in the additional info he stated his qualification they person in First Active could not figure out which option he was and tick it themselves or else ring me, my broker or engineer, all mobiles were on the application forms.

Now they also claim that the directive came from head office, bank of scotland, now if it did fair enough but they have to explain to me since Ulster bank are also owned by Bank of Scotland, how he is currently signing off houses for them?

I don't know how this will go tbh, they are just annoying me with their rubbish excuses.

YAPP

YOP,

Highlight the issue!

Broker a deal with lenders for better rate...

or else.... Gerry Ryan would love to get this on air... you know what I mean!

yop

"Gerry Ryan would love to get this on air... you know what I mean!"

I emailed the main presenters in RTE lad and no dice, no interest in it at all. Suprised really!

yop

Lads
What has developed after a lot of towing and frowing is that the bank do not consider my engineers qualification of having a Diploma in Construction Studies as been qualified enough to sign of the house. They have informed us that they will not accept him and requested we change engineer.
To me that could not be right and I have told him to get advice on this, cherry picking of engineers a bit.!!

midget lord

not being smart but if thats what first active want then thats what they will have to get. I recently went through the very same process, so i can forward you on the number of the surveyor that sorted us out. A bill of supervision and bill of quantities for 100 euro!!! PM me if you need the number.

yop

Midget, did that lad sign off all stages of the build for 100 euro and do up each ?